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agenttherock

Idea: Purple Maneuvers

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if this has been discussed already somewhere else but I was wondering what everyone thought about the idea of purple maneuvers? Now that we have purple actions as well as red actions do you think there is any possibility that a future Jedi starfighter might have a few purple maneuvers? (A maneuver that may only be performed by spending a force). Perhaps used for a particularly good maneuver for the ETA-2?

Edited by agenttherock

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Posted (edited)

Interesting idea, but how would maneuver difficulty increasing or reducing effects affect purple moves? There aren't many of those and i'm uncertain if any affect advanced maneuvers, but things should be future-proof just in case.

EDIT For basic maneuvers, there's R4 astromech and the Eta-2 Actis would be able to carry it. As things are, purple advanced maneuver works fine probably, but purple basic maneuver would already run into issues easily.

Edited by Woorloog

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I think it's a good idea.

I wonder what the penalty would be for dialing a purple maneuver, and then finding you don't have a force to spend to activate it. Maybe just 2-forward like when you reveal a red maneuver while stressed, or maybe you still perform the maneuver but treat it as red instead.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Woorloog said:

Interesting idea, but how would maneuver difficulty increasing or reducing effects affect purple moves? There aren't many of those and i'm uncertain if any affect advanced maneuvers, but things should be future-proof just in case.

I had similar thoughts. Maybe it has to be considered a red maneuver for purposes like this OR purple maneuvers perhaps simply cannot have their difficulty increased or decreased.

Princess Leia can reduce any red maneuver, so there's already potential for needing it (albeit in a different faction than we might get purple maneuvers in).

2 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I think it's a good idea.

I wonder what the penalty would be for dialing a purple maneuver, and then finding you don't have a force to spend to activate it. Maybe just 2-forward like when you reveal a red maneuver while stressed, or maybe you still perform the maneuver but treat it as red instead.

 

Edited by CaptainJaguarShark

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Maybe that is a way to introduce the half-talon or half-sloop where you turn the ship 90deg instead of 180. IG88D could do that for 3 turns in 1.0 and has now an even better ability in 2.0. Ciena Ree can basically do that for rolls/boosts.

It's the only thing I'd really like to add to xwing. A purple maneuver might be the way to add it.

Of course purple maneuvers could be added for more normal things, too.

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9 minutes ago, Woorloog said:

Interesting idea, but how would maneuver difficulty increasing or reducing effects affect purple moves? There aren't many of those and i'm uncertain if any affect advanced maneuvers, but things should be future-proof just in case.

EDIT For basic maneuvers, there's R4 astromech and the Eta-2 Actis would be able to carry it. As things are, purple advanced maneuver works fine probably, but purple basic maneuver would already run into issues easily.

In the rules, the degree of difficulty goes blue/white/red/purple.

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5 minutes ago, Woorloog said:

Interesting idea, but how would maneuver difficulty increasing or reducing effects affect purple moves? There aren't many of those and i'm uncertain if any affect advanced maneuvers, but things should be future-proof just in case.

EDIT For basic maneuvers, there's R4 astromech and the Eta-2 Actis would be able to carry it. As things are, purple advanced maneuver works fine probably, but purple basic maneuver would already run into issues easily.

Well ffg has said that purple actions are more difficult than red actions so that would possibly be the same for the purple maneuvers, although I could see them saying they can't be increased or decreased in difficulty as well as Captain Jaguar Shark said.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I wonder what the penalty would be for dialing a purple maneuver, and then finding you don't have a force to spend to activate it. Maybe just 2-forward like when you reveal a red maneuver while stressed, or maybe you still perform the maneuver but treat it as red instead.

Yeah I think that makes sense the same as when you reveal a red while stressed

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Just now, agenttherock said:

Well ffg has said that purple actions are more difficult than red actions so that would possibly be the same for the purple maneuvers, although I could see them saying they can't be increased or decreased in difficulty as well as Captain Jaguar Shark said.

 

 

I suppose that works though i'd say trading purple for red would be a bad thing in most cases. Yeah, it costs a Force, but i can still do a normal action after it, unlike with red maneuver. In this sense, purple actions being locked to being purple would make most sense.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Maybe that is a way to introduce the half-talon or half-sloop where you turn the ship 90deg instead of 180. IG88D could do that for 3 turns in 1.0 and has now an even better ability in 2.0. Ciena Ree can basically do that for rolls/boosts.

It's the only thing I'd really like to add to xwing. A purple maneuver might be the way to add it.

I like this idea a lot, then it would feel like something really special and not necessarily a balancing mechanism like the purple evade sometimes feels like. As a side note it would be cool to see purple linked actions as well.

 

Edited by agenttherock

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Its an interesting idea for another use for the force mechanic but I feel that, at least as far as a ships dial goes, the moves it can do represent the mechanical limits of the ship and using the force won't change that, so I wouldn't expect a fast interceptor-style ship to suddenly come to a reverse or a dead stop unless it was available to all types of pilot.  In that respect, I think the blue/white/red moves work fine.

Now if you want to have ships or pilots that can do extra boost, slam, etc moves or turn red into white by spending a force, or a 90 degree rotate at the end instead of a 180, then I think those are definitely options to explore.

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1 minute ago, Woorloog said:

I suppose that works though i'd say trading purple for red would be a bad thing in most cases. Yeah, it costs a Force, but i can still do a normal action after it, unlike with red maneuver. In this sense, purple actions being locked to being purple would make most sense.

That's a really good point about the action, the purple maneuver wouldn't necessarily be worse than a red, just a different cost.

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3 minutes ago, JudgeDeath said:

Its an interesting idea for another use for the force mechanic but I feel that, at least as far as a ships dial goes, the moves it can do represent the mechanical limits of the ship and using the force won't change that, so I wouldn't expect a fast interceptor-style ship to suddenly come to a reverse or a dead stop unless it was available to all types of pilot.  In that respect, I think the blue/white/red moves work fine.

Now if you want to have ships or pilots that can do extra boost, slam, etc moves or turn red into white by spending a force, or a 90 degree rotate at the end instead of a 180, then I think those are definitely options to explore.

Agreed that it could definitely be addressed with pilot abilities and I agree that the system works great how it is, I would view it kind of like fine-tuned controls, this ship is built for a Jedi and only by using the force can you push the chassis to its true limits. That being said if they don't do it, I would be cool with that too, it's just an extra area of design space I was thinking about.

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I kinda like the concept.  Suppose the next Jedi-only fighter, such as an Actis, had a purple K-Turn and T-Rolls.  That'd be a huge amount of mobility, at a decent cost.  Having a nice array of purple moves would be a cool way to have a nimble fighter that doesn't use the same Fine-Tuned Controls, since it'd be boring for all the Jedi ships to be the same.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, agenttherock said:

I like this idea a lot, then it would feel like something really special and not necessarily a balancing mechanism like the purple evade sometimes feels like. As a side note it would be cool to see purple linked actions as well.

I was going to say that this is exactly why I'm fond of this idea. Giving the Eta-2 Actis, for instance, access to some extra maneuvers at speed one, thanks to the Force, would be something that Interceptor ships doesn't normally have, unlike Evade, which is something they do normally have, which makes the mechanic feel very strange to me. But then I realized that the Delta-7 already has better speed one maneuvers. Something like that could maybe still work, but I'm not familiar enough with maneuver standards to offer another idea.

Edited by Jokubas

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7 minutes ago, agenttherock said:

Agreed that it could definitely be addressed with pilot abilities and I agree that the system works great how it is, I would view it kind of like fine-tuned controls, this ship is built for a Jedi and only by using the force can you push the chassis to its true limits. That being said if they don't do it, I would be cool with that too, it's just an extra area of design space I was thinking about.

Well another alternative could be that purple moves on the dial that can be done by anyone, but they count as red manoeuvres unless you spend a force token, in which case they become white.

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7 minutes ago, JudgeDeath said:

Well another alternative could be that purple moves on the dial that can be done by anyone, but they count as red manoeuvres unless you spend a force token, in which case they become white.

That's true! It could be done as a ship ability: "When you reveal a red maneuver you may spend a force, if you do, you may decrease the difficulty of the maneuver"

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9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Hey, maybe this is a candidate for that light side killer Force talent: when you execute a blue manouevre, recover one force.

Sort of a different thing but I like the idea!

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It's really not a bad idea. The only issue is back integrating it into previous Jedi ships. That's why I like the idea of using it as a force talent. That way, older ships can use it AND they can hit it with the points hammer if it turns out to be way too good.

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Interesting idea! I think this could easily be made into Force Power:

-After you fully execute a red maneuver you may spend a force to treat it as white.

Or

- After you execute a X speed non red maneuver you may spend a force to rotate your ship 180°(90°?) degrees.

Something along those lines...

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6 minutes ago, rhetor said:

One may think of making it costly, e.g. 2 force points.

 

I like your line of thinking. In theory, there SHOULD be force abilities that are beyond the reach of lower-skill jedi. If it costed 2 force points, this would exclude the basic inquisitors and jedi knights and would only be usable by those who are stronger with the force. 

 

Being able to basically change the quality of your dial seems strong enough to cost 2 force points. It also stops you from using it every turn since you only generate 1 at the end of the round.

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