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The Winds of Magic...kinna pricey?

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I won't get into the argument of whether or not this particular expansion is too pricey.  They haven't actually announced how much stuff will be in it, have they? so it's kind of hard for me to judge.

I just have always found arguments about "incompleteness" strange, when applied to any game, really.  I guess I just think "completeness" is kind of a weird thing to judge an RPG on.  I have to wonder if people who find WFRP3 "incomplete" would say the same about, say, the nWoD core book.  It's certainly playable, but the only specific "monsters" it has rules for are ghosts and there are no supernatural powers in it beyond a couple pages of numina for said ghosts.  In a more extreme example, would anyone claim that Exalted is "incomplete" until there are books for every type of Exalt?  (btw, my apologies if anyone reading isn't familiar with White Wolf games - they're the most well known RPGs I have high familiarity with).  To be fair, I think there is a much stronger argument that the WFRP3 core is "incomplete" than, say, the Exalted core.  But I think it's really a matter of expectations.  If this was the first incarnation of the Warhammer IP (or the game was based on a brand new IP) I think the "incompleteness" claim would come up much less frequently.  People that are familiar with previous editions, or with the world in general, though the war game or the MMO, expect (perhaps rightfully) to see certain things covered by the game, and until it does it will feel incomplete.

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fnord3125 said:

 

Parzival said:

Total cost. As in once the game is fully released (if ever) .

Well... that's a fair point, but in my opinion, it's a strange way of looking at an RPG.  I mean, add up the total cost of all the D&D4e books that have been released so far, and you're going to get a pretty huge number too.  And sometimes they're going to release expansions that won't be of interest to you, and then there's no reason to buy them.  But of course, it's everyone's personal choice where to spend their entertainment money, so if you don't feel it's worth it, then obviously you'd want to skip it.

 

 

 

 

The big difference is that majority of the D&D products have no use and you still only need the core handbooks.  Everything also is available in easy to digest components that let you pick what exactly you want, and not packaged in higher priced box sets.  The way they are handling WHFRPG is that you need to buy a whole box set if you just want a small part of something.  Now how well valued the box set is?  Well of course to some it will be worth it, to some it won't.  The magic set I think will be essential and full of good stuff, but yea 50 bucks is alot of money for it.  We don't know full details of course yet but if this is mostly just for a single person at the table and a few extra rules, it's kinda hard to swallow for some.  I understand the cost is largely due to so many components being included like tokens, cards, etc, etc, but it's just rising the cost of something that is considered essential.

Wotc did kinda do a similar thing with their Star Wars rpg where they put essential rules in every book forcing people to pretty much buy each one if they wanted a "complete" game.

The core box set is a "complete" game, but obviously after months of complaints, many of the players don't seem to think it was enough for a warhammer set rpg.  Many have been spoiled by the vast older editions.  The main reason people feel the game is incomplete is due to how much is missing from past editions, and huge chunk of warhammer lore is not part of the game yet.

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I'm guessing the "Advanced Box" would come about an year after the core set. Given that they haven't announced it yet, and the newest product is due in late June... September/October sounds reasonable, right?

I don't mind the price tag, nor splitting essential components between several boxes, but I would have loved it if we had the Advanced Box, just 6 months after the Core Set. Although if I had to choose if I'm getting that or The Gathering Storm + GM Toolkit right now... well I like the situation as it is. 

Finally, I'm glad the Winds box is priced higher than the Storm - that just means we get MORE STUFF with it!! :) Can't wait.....

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Playtester here.

Even if you don't have a party of spellcasters, there are tons of cool ideas and material in this product that you can use in other ways.

In other words, this isn't just a box of spell cards.

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Parzival said:

Good for you, enjoy it.

Obviously you and I differ in what we want/expect from the game.

And, yeah you could argue that I could just either fill in the parts of this edition, that I feel are missing. Or, convert material from the pervious editions. To which I say "A game that asking me to pay this amount, shouldn't require me to fill in the gaps".

 

Again. I do lik e the game. I just am not willing to pay that much for the whole thing, nor do I want to "Work" to make it do what I want. there are plenty of other RPGS out there. So, have fun and "See ya".

 

Parzival said:

Good for you, enjoy it.

Obviously you and I differ in what we want/expect from the game.

And, yeah you could argue that I could just either fill in the parts of this edition, that I feel are missing. Or, convert material from the pervious editions. To which I say "A game that asking me to pay this amount, shouldn't require me to fill in the gaps".

 

Again. I do lik e the game. I just am not willing to pay that much for the whole thing, nor do I want to "Work" to make it do what I want. there are plenty of other RPGS out there. So, have fun and "See ya".

 

Honestly, you makes no sense.  You like it, but don't want to spend money on it yet you want to spend money on other games.  Either way, the money is being spent...period.  Fourty bucks for a different book, fourty bucks for a different set, so that really makes 100% no sense.  Also, the suppliments being released are worth it.  All the components that have been released are useful.  I bought the gathering storm not for the module, but the cards and the storm tracker, and you know what, I'm glad I did.  I don't know if I'll ever run the story itself (probably not), but I don't feel ripped off about it because I bought it through a discount retailer. 

Sure, it's more than standard games...only because most standard games make their suppliments for piss and have actually no use practically (Vampire Clan Books and those God awful class splats for 3e are just two examples, but it can go on and on and on).  These boxes are actually worth it so maybe that concept stuns you, but that is another aspect of the game that actually makes it worth supporting...the expansions are useful so I can continue to have additional material, rules, etc to expand my base game.  

Honestly...the core gives plenty of information to greatly enjoy the game.  Now I think they should have released an advanced expansion by now that covers more careers, higher levels, etc. But I'm willing to wait if the work turns out better for it and it comes in at a fair price.  

If you look at the Magic Set it is quite possibly a great design.  Every game company has been making magic expansions since the beginning of time.  You're quick to point out  the fact it only effects one player so don't buy it.  You argue against yourself here clearly by saying I have to have all these expansions but this one expansion I don't want.  You also don't need the GM Toolkit, Gathering Storm...the only other one I would say is required, pending on what you want to do is the Adventurer's toolkit, but that isn't all that necessary either.  So get it over it.  All you still need is the core.  Eventually, you'll need the advanced expansion. 

The Magic set is NOT pricey given what it suggests it's covered.  It's a 40 dollar magic book equivelent, with high end card and art work instead of bland, black and white (and typically disorganized) rules with crappy page layout with artwork inserted on pages for no reason (and bad art at that...which Warhammer does not have).  It then has at least a 10-15 dollar module, and a series of rules expananions which in other game terms would be 10-15 bucks.  So add that up from another company and it's roughly a 60 dollar value ffg is pumping at us at fifty. 

Pricey?  No.  We're just not used to companies actually interested in selling products, we're used to companies full of shotty writers who have horrible editors who put together a horribly balanced system with massive rules descrepencies and everything you need to play contained in one book with hundreds of pages of redundant and useless spells.  So far, in all the sets, nothing FFG has put out for Warhammer has been redundant. 

So yeah, see ya'! 

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One other thing about the price...

You know, most rpg's in their core make you waste huge amounts of money with their precious core books with money spent on magic.  It is a fact, as many of us have seen, that some games have no wizards, clerics, priests, or whatever.  Maybe, at best, one.  So with that in the core we didn't have to waste this money and instead got a very comprehensive action system, condition cards, wound effects(more extensive than most RPG'S and way easier to manage), the insanities (which have more flavor than Cthulhu) and way more useful components.  As a matter of a fact, I can't say there is a single component in the core set that isn't useful. 

So magic is a suppliment.  You want to play an expanded wizard...you want a party of wizards, buy this box.  You just want to play a Wizard...buy this box and some dice and you can play many different kinds of Wizards. 

So in essence, FFG gave us more for our money up front and gave us magic expansions as an option.  The Core DOES give some magic and I would say, the most popular forms of magic for the most stereotypical wizards and priests that most people play.  You want more, buy this box.  If not, forget it. 

So I, for one, am thankful for the way they're doing this and can't wait to buy my copy.

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This game is cheap, I dont get why people whine about it :/ here look

 

 

2hno13s.jpg

 

I made that order today without thinking it twice. You have to pay WAY MORE to play D&D 4 edition with they're components and screens ans minis and campaings. WAY MORE.

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 I buy from " thewarstore.com " and they will allways charge you 6 bucks fo ANYTHING you buy. It can be a huge order of lets say 10 WHFRPG3 core sets and it will be 6$ shipping(if you live in the US) and the prices they have are way better thant the ones on Fantasy Flight Store ;)

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In case you live in Europe and you want cheap WFRP components I'd suggest these:

Maelstrom Games - limited selection in general (they have everything WFRP3 though), free shipping to every EU country, overall lowest prices you could ever find. Some times it takes them 3-4 days to ship an order, but if you're not in a hurry, they're great.

The Book Depository - it's a book store but they do have some FFG stuff (including WFRP3 and W:I), free shipping to EU, prices comparable to Maelstrom.

Total Wargames - again, limited selection but they have all the WFRP3 stuff, cheap shipping to EU, some products are cheaper than the first two stores, they tend to list items before they actually have them so maybe it's useful if you email them to check for availability first. 

...and I'd also suggest to avoid Amazon!!

EDIT: Actually TotalWargames' WFRP3 prices are lower than Maelstrom's but if you add the shipping cost, they get pretty even.

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Actually, here in the UK, I got my copy of the Core set for £36. I think someone made a boo-boo, and it's gone back up now. But just goes to show, it's worth keeping your eyes open.

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Fabs said:

Actually, here in the UK, I got my copy of the Core set for £36. I think someone made a boo-boo, and it's gone back up now. But just goes to show, it's worth keeping your eyes open.

Someone definitely made a boo boo. Nice catch

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