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Half the lists at worlds - Specter cell. Disgusting.

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I'm not sure there is more to add to that title honestly.

Its incredibly disappointing that Specter Cell is what it is. At least locally, anyone who played it stopped playing it, we had our regionals with 0 specter cell lists. It was good. It made the game great again. 

Your move next, FFG.

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I've been spending the past few weeks trying to come up with a list that will actually compete against SC. Nothing. I even tried a dual Bantha Rider which can cause massive damage but at most kills one SC and damages several others, still not enough. Spectre Cell is just too awesome and OP! This has happened before with IA and I remember the old X-Wing days with triple U-Boats (boring). I'm hoping for some boosts for units like Royal Guard Champion to help, but really, the only way to slow SC is make the card once per round with the plus damage and block (or make it an attachment to leader only, making the team have to protect Hera or Kanan). Fix it by Nationals, please!!

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The frustrating thing is, Spectre Cell could have been a great prototype for some skirmish upgrades going forward if it hadn't been so overpowering. Upgrades that could make a set of lower tier figures stronger, especially based around certain types or theming could really invigorate some figure types or lists that don't see a lot of play. I'm imagining something like a Bounty Hunter upgrade for the six (obviously it would be included in the Zuckuss/4 Lom set :D ) or something for Imperial Heavy Weapons and Vehicles, maybe even one for each of the campaign villains.

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43 minutes ago, Weatherwax2099 said:

The frustrating thing is, Spectre Cell could have been a great prototype for some skirmish upgrades going forward if it hadn't been so overpowering. Upgrades that could make a set of lower tier figures stronger, especially based around certain types or theming could really invigorate some figure types or lists that don't see a lot of play. I'm imagining something like a Bounty Hunter upgrade for the six (obviously it would be included in the Zuckuss/4 Lom set :D ) or something for Imperial Heavy Weapons and Vehicles, maybe even one for each of the campaign villains.

Maybe, but none of the Spectre figures were in any way "weak."  Ezra is more powerful than Boba Fett at half the cost.  So adding a damage and a block to every character, as well as add free attack once a round?  Yeah, not sure how this wasn't immediately spotted in testing.  

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Just now, Rikalonius said:

Maybe, but none of the Spectre figures were in any way "weak."  Ezra is more powerful than Boba Fett at half the cost.  So adding a damage and a block to every character, as well as add free attack once a round?  Yeah, not sure how this wasn't immediately spotted in testing.  

Testing lol thats a good one

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Yup,  I held out hope that someone would rise up in the time of our greatest need and defeat SC with some unexpected list...  but no.  I am now (belatedly) joining your ranks!  SC is OP.  SC is broken.  I should have admitted it before!  Our meta is kinda dumb. SC should be banned unless you are under 12 (I still like the challenge it gives me when my kids use it). 

FFG, fix this mess!  Nerf it.  You are squandering a GREAT game and turning away a lot of people (and money) and it wouldn't require hardly anything to fix!  Nerf SC and give us a set of fixes for older cards and a couple new blister packs.  That's it.

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11 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

Yup,  I held out hope that someone would rise up in the time of our greatest need and defeat SC with some unexpected list...  but no.  I am now (belatedly) joining your ranks!  SC is OP.  SC is broken.  I should have admitted it before!  Our meta is kinda dumb. SC should be banned unless you are under 12 (I still like the challenge it gives me when my kids use it). 

FFG, fix this mess!  Nerf it.  You are squandering a GREAT game and turning away a lot of people (and money) and it wouldn't require hardly anything to fix!  Nerf SC and give us a set of fixes for older cards and a couple new blister packs.  That's it.

Agreed. I've been a big cheerleader for this game and the last year has been disappointing, even though the game has been great. Do they not want to make money? I think if they had more resources, we would not be in this mess. They really act like they don't care and that there are no plans to continue this game. 

As competitive players, we are our own worst enemy. Personally I would NEVER bring a stupid meta list to a tournament. People who brought SC knew what you knew @Mandelore of the Rings, that SC is near impossible to beat, even with a perfect game. So, if you can't beat em, join em? I personally would not be proud to win a tournament with a meta list, one that requires very little prep or skill. All of you who brought SC will not get a congratulations from me. It's legal. So, now FFG can make it illegal and we can move on from this.  

I remember specifically being told by FFG designers that the negative talk on here is being noted and that the company views it as motivation to not improve the game. Specifically that people keep complaining about it dying. So, apparently being positive doesn't do jack shi-t either since we've been pretty positive and yet they choose to stay quiet other than to drop a few bread crumbs. FFG seems almost completely uninterested to plug this game. I don't blame them. If I were them and I invested so much money in Legion, I would minimize it's competition. Euthanize their old. 

I know I'm not the only one, but Legion is just not the game for me. So, they will definitely lose some sales. I'm also not interested in X and I think Armada is leading towards the same fate as IA. That being said, I like the outer rim game, but I'm told it's a rip off of Firefly. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I remember specifically being told by FFG designers that the negative talk on here is being noted and that the company views it as motivation to not improve the game. Specifically that people keep complaining about it dying. So, apparently being positive doesn't do jack shi-t either since we've been pretty positive and yet they choose to stay quiet other than to drop a few bread crumbs. FFG seems almost completely uninterested to plug this game. I don't blame them. If I were them and I invested so much money in Legion, I would minimize it's competition. Euthanize their old

It's their fault the game is dying. Sounds like a lack of effort or passion on FFG's part. This really makes me sad to hear.

Edited by King_Balrog

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1 hour ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

That being said, I like the outer rim game, but I'm told it's a rip off of Firefly

I had previously expressed concern that this might be the case (if not Firefly, then Xia. Or both).  Did you hear this from people who have play-tested it?

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1 hour ago, King_Balrog said:

It's their fault the game is dying. Sound like a lack of effort or passion on FFG's part. This really makes me sad to hear.

Agreed. They make excuses.

"Disney wants us hush hush on any additions to their cannon" 

"Our issues with Hasbro hand cuffs what we do with this boardgame"

How about the truth? ---paraphrasing---

"Legion is the game the company wants you to buy"

"We don't have staff to work on developing ideas for IA"

"Don't bother with this game any more as we're planning on discontinuing it"

"We don't have time for this game, hence why nobody shows up to any major Con to take questions" 

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2 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Agreed. I've been a big cheerleader for this game and the last year has been disappointing, even though the game has been great. Do they not want to make money? I think if they had more resources, we would not be in this mess. They really act like they don't care and that there are no plans to continue this game. 

As competitive players, we are our own worst enemy. Personally I would NEVER bring a stupid meta list to a tournament. People who brought SC knew what you knew @Mandelore of the Rings, that SC is near impossible to beat, even with a perfect game. So, if you can't beat em, join em? I personally would not be proud to win a tournament with a meta list, one that requires very little prep or skill. All of you who brought SC will not get a congratulations from me. It's legal. So, now FFG can make it illegal and we can move on from this.  

I remember specifically being told by FFG designers that the negative talk on here is being noted and that the company views it as motivation to not improve the game. Specifically that people keep complaining about it dying. So, apparently being positive doesn't do jack shi-t either since we've been pretty positive and yet they choose to stay quiet other than to drop a few bread crumbs. FFG seems almost completely uninterested to plug this game. I don't blame them. If I were them and I invested so much money in Legion, I would minimize it's competition. Euthanize their old. 

I know I'm not the only one, but Legion is just not the game for me. So, they will definitely lose some sales. I'm also not interested in X and I think Armada is leading towards the same fate as IA. That being said, I like the outer rim game, but I'm told it's a rip off of Firefly. 

I went through all this with WOTC Star Wars minis.  It is the inevitable course of skirmish games because publishers are not interested in creating a healthy game, not that they are totally at fault, they interested in selling merchandise.  Why do you think all of FFG games have non-standard dice?  And/or include some supplemental card system to the rules.  It makes it so people need to buy stuff.  X-Wing and Legion are far worse than IA in this respect, which is why IA isn't getting the FFG love we'd like it to be given.  The other side of the equation is player demand.  "Stale, meta" they say.  The constant demand for the next box, the next units.  Those units have to have their special thematic ability which "changes" the meta.  Now, look, one box sends the whole Jenga pile to the table. Just like SWM, the continued infusion of more characters does the exact opposite what people claim they want; it makes the new characters mandatory and the old characters obsolete.  The lists narrow rather than expand.  

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Agreed. They make excuses.

"Disney wants us hush hush on any additions to their cannon" 

"Our issues with Hasbro hand cuffs what we do with this boardgame"

How about the truth? ---paraphrasing---

"Legion is the game the company wants you to buy"

"We don't have staff to work on developing ideas for IA"

"Don't bother with this game any more as we're planning on discontinuing it"

"We don't have time for this game, hence why nobody shows up to any major Con to take questions" 

Well boys(and girls?), its been good while its lasted... Seems like the end is closer than we think.

They should just pump out one more big box expansion with a few erratas and individual units as a last hurrah.

They can stop bothering, we can be thankful for more expansions, and we will no longer have to suffer with the slow-to-no IV drip of info or updates every 6 months.

The community here can make unit cards- Kensei Imperial Assault Tools Suite,  3D printed models, and campaigns ourselves. 

 

Edited by King_Balrog

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37 minutes ago, Rikalonius said:

I went through all this with WOTC Star Wars minis.  It is the inevitable course of skirmish games because publishers are not interested in creating a healthy game, not that they are totally at fault, they interested in selling merchandise.  Why do you think all of FFG games have non-standard dice?  And/or include some supplemental card system to the rules.  It makes it so people need to buy stuff.  X-Wing and Legion are far worse than IA in this respect, which is why IA isn't getting the FFG love we'd like it to be given.  The other side of the equation is player demand.  "Stale, meta" they say.  The constant demand for the next box, the next units.  Those units have to have their special thematic ability which "changes" the meta.  Now, look, one box sends the whole Jenga pile to the table. Just like SWM, the continued infusion of more characters does the exact opposite what people claim they want; it makes the new characters mandatory and the old characters obsolete.  The lists narrow rather than expand.  

I agree. It's not a charity. They are about making money, and with all of the red tape, perhaps IA just isn't profitable enough to warrant their attention? It really is an AMAZING game though. 

 

37 minutes ago, King_Balrog said:

Well boys(and girls?), its been good while its lasted... Seems like the end is closer than we think.

They should just pump out one more big box expansion with a few erratas and individual units as a last hurrah.

They can stop bothering, we can be thankful for more expansions, and we will no longer have to suffer with the slow-to-no IV drip of info or updates every 6 months.

The community here can make unit cards- Kensei Imperial Assault Tools Suite,  3D printed models, and campaigns ourselves. 

 

I'm down for something like this. I really don't feel like buying IA was ever a waste of money. I can still play campaign (which I've never touched), or go this route that you're suggesting...which is frankly...COOL!

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16 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

Maybe, but none of the Spectre figures were in any way "weak."  Ezra is more powerful than Boba Fett at half the cost.  So adding a damage and a block to every character, as well as add free attack once a round?  Yeah, not sure how this wasn't immediately spotted in testing.  

From what I heard the current version of SC was never shown to testers. Older versions had "tap to focus" once per round instead of "tap for two movement points and an attack". Pretty big difference. 

3 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

As competitive players, we are our own worst enemy. Personally I would NEVER bring a stupid meta list to a tournament. People who brought SC knew what you knew @Mandelore of the Rings, that SC is near impossible to beat, even with a perfect game. So, if you can't beat em, join em? I personally would not be proud to win a tournament with a meta list, one that requires very little prep or skill. All of you who brought SC will not get a congratulations from me. It's legal. So, now FFG can make it illegal and we can move on from this.   

I feel you, but this is the world championship. This is where you bring the list that has the best chance of winning the tournament. And trust me I'm on the anti-SC bandwagon too, this was me 2 days before the tournament started talking about list options on the ZF slack channel: 

Brett P Kelly [10:09 AM] Gah I keep staring at Luke rangers
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]There's just no way I wouldn't get demolished on maul
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]Luke han doesn't have enough firepower
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]I just don't think I can make it work
Fightwookies   [4 days ago]just think how solid it would be on fluctuations and give in
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]It would be solid enough to win sometimes on one map
David Moseley   [4 days ago]This is a conversation for the #listbuilding-spectre channel. That's where it will ultimately conclude, right?
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]Womp womp
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]I don't want to run spec
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]I feel like I have to though
Brett P Kelly   [4 days ago]Not happy about it

As a competitive player who wanted to win, this was basically my only option. Whether or not I'm proud of winning? Yes I'm very proud of my win. I played 7 Spectre Cell mirror matches and won each one, including two wins over the UK national champ and one against the 3 time world champ. How could I not be proud of that?

I also tweeted FFGOP for a ban:

@FFGOP #Imperialassault worlds is right around the corner! Those of us close to the competitive scene are very concerned about Spectre Cell and I'd say the overwhelming majority of players want it banned. Please consider this issue before it's too late!

I wasn't the only one asking for a ban. Yes the players recognize a problem. The blame shouldn't be on us for FFG's refusal to address the issue. 

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25 minutes ago, brettpkelly said:

From what I heard the current version of SC was never shown to testers. Older versions had "tap to focus" once per round instead of "tap for two movement points and an attack". Pretty big difference. 

This is a very big change indeed.

Considering SC's cant run Gideon, this would still be a viable buff.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, brettpkelly said:

I also tweeted FFGOP for a ban:

@FFGOP #Imperialassault worlds is right around the corner! Those of us close to the competitive scene are very concerned about Spectre Cell and I'd say the overwhelming majority of players want it banned. Please consider this issue before it's too late!

I wasn't the only one asking for a ban. Yes the players recognize a problem. The blame shouldn't be on us for FFG's refusal to address the issue. 

Brett. You're an excellent advocate for the game that I love. I too have felt that feeling you had many times, in that determining what to bring is often painstaking. I always conclude bringing anti-meta, which is why you never see me make cut lists at big events! LOL.

In saying that, congratulations on your win. It is in know way any less than anyone else's win. You played by the rules, and won fair and square. In fact, facing 7 straight mirror matches must have been absolutely brutal. 

So I don't ever question why top players bring top tier lists to events. It's just not my style, and I think it promotes what's bad about the game and further propagates why others should use it. To win. The flipside is that yes, indeed, it costs a lot of money and time to attend these events. It's probably lead to many arguments with spouses (cough cough). You want to get the best bang for your buck, i.e. win the best prizes possible.

I think if people see that playing at top tier events should not define the game, more people would ignore OP lists like this. But alas they don't. I'm curious as to whether this new system of OP kits being a season will basically not reward players who bring top tier lists? In other words, play what you want and have fun, but still win the same swag?

Anyways, keep up the great work! And regardless of if there is an immediate fix or not, I don't see me giving up this glorious game any time soon. 

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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2 minutes ago, Bitterman said:

Proud or not, how could you even tolerate that? I'd have gone home and done something more interesting.

Honestly, you have a point. The meta is in a really rough state. I still enjoyed playing, but I understand why a lot of people were very turned off by the lack of list diversity.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Bitterman said:

Proud or not, how could you even tolerate that? I'd have gone home and done something more interesting.

Dude. I can't tell you how upset I would have been. When did IA become chess? Black or White. Go! (or I guess in this case black vs black or white vs white).

That is the last thing I'd want to do if I traveled that far to play the game I love is to play the same squad 7 times in row!!!  

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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@brettpkelly,

First, congratulations on the win!

Second, your post has me thinking that Worlds this year was basically the IA-IROC.  All racers are in the exact same model of car, same kit... the only difference is the driver.  It’s kind of cool in its own way, despite the issues (as @NeverBetTheFett points out, this isn’t the game for that).

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