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Norsehound

Am I the only one not looking forward to Clone Wars?

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On 3/30/2019 at 10:58 AM, GuacCousteau said:

You mean as opposed to aaaaaaalllllll these Rebel and Empire ships we're currently getting?

It's already been over a year since the last Rebel and Empire release. And even then, the Empire release was just a repaint of an existing ship with new cards. 

What's your projected path for this hypothetical two years if Clone Wars doesn't happen? What ships are going to get released? What content is going to be added to the game?

 

All the arguments against Clone Wars I can see are just people actively looking for problems. New factions don't need absolute content parity to be fun or competitive to play. They just need to be able to build a solid list or two with the first wave of content, and then have their options expanded and identity refined with a second wave. 

Over half of all the existing expansions for Armada were released in the first two waves. If the Clone Wars core set included an Acclamator, a Munificent frigate and a Hardcell with the additional wave 1 expansions being a Providence cruiser and an Arquitens (with extra bases/cards to convert the Imperial version), and then the second wave introduces your big boys in the form of the Venator and Lucrehulk along with a Consular-class and a Recusant then you've already got the vast majority of both fleets. With two starfighter expansions each, you'd have the Delta-7, ARC-170, Y-Wing, V-Wing, V-19, Nu-class shuttle, Eta-2 and Twilight all taken care of for the Republic, and Vulture Droids, Hyena Bombers, Tr-Fighters, Belbullabs, Geonosian fighters, Rogue Starfighters, Sheathipede and Sith Infiltrator for the Seps. That's pretty much literally everything you could possibly want.

 

You could do that in six months.

The only things left would be the Malevolence and maybe a CC-9979 flotilla for the Seps, and maybe a Victory, Pelta (with conversions) and the Stealth Ship for the Republic. 

They COULD do this in 6 months.  But since it's 2 years minimum before the next wave for current content, the chances of them putting out that much material in a 6 month time frame is slim to none.  Especially with their focus being anywhere but Armada.  They are still in the early stages of Xwing v2 and they are launching far more factions which they need to keep supporting if they don't want that game to die.  Legion is their other big ticket item and they just launched new factions for it too.

That is consuming dang near all of their production capability.  It will be likely a year or more before they can slow production on either of those.  That means Armada is likely sidelined from any new wave production till 2020 at best.  Assume they give us something on the order of early armada production at that point and you are talking 2020 being dedicated to the new factions.  3 years of no faction support for the Imps/Rebels and you can pretty much guarantee people just giving up on the game. 

I'm not opposed to new factions from a gameplay or personal standpoint.  I'm concerned from a survivability of the game standpoint.  I'm concerned about it from a logical standpoint.  People are already giving up on the game because FFG isn't producing new content.  Giving up on the current factions much longer and people will just continue to fade away.

If FFG were to up their production capabilities, or refocus efforts to the current factions by moving into the new trilogy, comics, cartoons, etc to fill the ranks while ALSO releasing new CW factions...then you have something.  But FFG would need to make Armada their primary focus to pull that off.

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2 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

In earnest, we likely will, just not till after CW era. Presuming, of course, the armada community doesn't kill each other while waiting for GCW content to wrap up. 

Doesn't kill each other while waiting......... All in all we have some good patients as a community. BUT, there are some who I suspect would be pelted to death by peltas somedays.

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Our local community is a solid “ehhhh?” on the idea of a Clone Wars route for Armada. The basic complaint is more based on how much plastic starship do they actually need than any sort of issue with fluff.

 

I would like one as the GCW era is a good wave or two away from being relegated to just Chimaera style repackaging or tapping into some of the reallly bad parts of legends. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Church14 said:

The basic complaint is more based on how much plastic starship do they actually need than any sort of issue with fluff.

This is pretty common from what I understand... a lot of people with core release cold sweats from buying 5 or 6 of the starter ships lol only to need 2 or 3 tops after wave 3/4 lol

 

Edited by Darth Sanguis

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5 minutes ago, Church14 said:

The basic complaint is more based on how much plastic starship do they actually need than any sort of issue with fluff.

I totally get this.  I’m running out of room.  

I had this compulsion to get every Armada, x-wing and Imperial Assault Expansion and eventually I just ran out of funds.  Armada’s ice age helped but even before anyone knew about x-wing 2.0 I was losing interest in keeping up with all the increasingly obscure ships.  Imperial assault I haven’t played in probably 2 years...but I kept ordering stuff.  I think that too needs to stop.  I just don’t play it.

CW Armada would be a great excuse for me to bail, and I’m not saying they shouldn’t make it or people shouldn’t be excited about it, I just am not.  At all.  I sincerely hope the SSD will be the last Armada model I buy.

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9 minutes ago, Church14 said:

The basic complaint is more based on how much plastic starship do they actually need than any sort of issue with fluff.

Advice to those complaints: Dont buy 5 of every expansion.

Just stick to a 1 or 2 factions. You dont need every single thing in the game.

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2 hours ago, Ling27 said:

Advice to those complaints: Dont buy 5 of every expansion.

Just stick to a 1 or 2 factions. You dont need every single thing in the game.

Well... yeah. They understand that.

 

They aren’t inclined to buy into new factions, but are also willing to wait and see. If something really engaging comes along then they may bite. 

 

I guess my my takeaway is that convincing them to buy clone wars would be harder than convincing them to buy more GCW. 

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Just want to throw in my opinion... the way I see thing is that there is no long term future for civil war era  as we already have most canon ship and character. Im pretty sure we will see the imp support vessel(dread) and dornean (probaly ship with U-Wing) and thats it so ffg have to move to another era  CW or sequel to keep armada alive.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Frimmel said:

I know it is scary but it will be okay. If the Clone Wars stuff is interesting and fun to play in Armada, you can still, even after twenty years, hold on to your prequels-suck reflex. Clone Wars content won't destroy your self-image as a prequel hating "Star Wars" not "A New Hope" Han shot fan of real Star Wars. You can still hate the prequels even if they bring fun stuff to Armada. 

 

Really my biggest beef is locking out further content for Empire/Rebellion by being nothing but CIS/Republic... with no option to take these ships in the current factions. I'm looking into the future and guessing, if CIS/Republic is a go, does that mean Rebel/Empire get absolutely nothing for a long period of time as CIS/Republic is built up?

If it were me, and I thought I mentioned this in the OP, I'd rather these ships be released with cards/bases so that the Rebels/Empire could fly the ships. I'd be down for an Imperial Acclaimator and Venator (so long as they didn't make ISDs/VSDs/QFs obsolite somehow), and I'd love to see a Recusant (my favorite CIS Ship) for the Rebels. But I'm not down for the next few waves being exclusively CIS/Republic, which with a content release of about 2 ships every half-year, is going to take a while. As it is I feel bad the Rebels had to sit this long without anything opposing the SSD.

I just really don't want a repeat of X-wing 1.0 scum, where one new faction took the lion's share of expansion waves and gave little for the existing factions. FO/Resistance was much better.

12 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

So what do we have left canon to add? 

Dreadnought/Imperial Support Vessel 

Venator

Dorean Gunships 

Maybe another Mon Cal ship. 

Didn't the Arquitens and Pelta come out after Armada was released, through Rebels? We're going to have other kinds of ships crop up from various other Star Wars media projects that will ultimately be depicted by the time this current list is exhausted.

Edited by Norsehound

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5 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Really my biggest beef is locking out further content for Empire/Rebellion by being nothing but CIS/Republic... with no option to take these ships in the current factions. I'm looking into the future and guessing, if CIS/Republic is a go, does that mean Rebel/Empire get absolutely nothing for a long period of time as CIS/Republic is built up?

If it were me, and I thought I mentioned this in the OP, I'd rather these ships be released with cards/bases so that the Rebels/Empire could fly the ships. I'd be down for an Imperial Acclaimator and Venator (so long as they didn't make ISDs/VSDs/QFs obsolite somehow), and I'd love to see a Recusant (my favorite CIS Ship) for the Rebels. But I'm not down for the next few waves being exclusively CIS/Republic, which with a content release of about 2 ships every half-year, is going to take a while. As it is I feel bad the Rebels had to sit this long without anything opposing the SSD.

I just really don't want a repeat of X-wing 1.0 scum, where one new faction took the lion's share of expansion waves and gave little for the existing factions. FO/Resistance was much better.

Didn't the Arquitens and Pelta come out after Armada was released, through Rebels? We're going to have other kinds of ships crop up from various other Star Wars media projects that will ultimately be depicted by the time this current list is exhausted.

Pelta was in episode 1 (or at least first arc) of the clone wars show as a medical transport ship for injured clones and the Arquitens showed up quite a bit.

 

Playing devil’s advocate to myself, the quasar fire was from rebels. So your point wasn’t accurate, but the point you were trying to make still stands. 

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3 hours ago, Church14 said:

Pelta was in episode 1 (or at least first arc) of the clone wars show as a medical transport ship for injured clones and the Arquitens showed up quite a bit.

 

Playing devil’s advocate to myself, the quasar fire was from rebels. So your point wasn’t accurate, but the point you were trying to make still stands. 

The Venator has been around for longer than both of those, but it was passed up by the craft that showed up in the Rebels cartoon, with the faction alignment described in that show. This is why I'm inclined to think they're here because they showed up there.

Now that I think about it there's a better example: The MC75. This certainly didn't exist before Armada was created, and was brought into the game after the movie. We'll see more situations like this the more CGW stories we get over time.

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As long as we are given a Dreadnought heavy cruiser, Imp support for runner up, and a Dorean Gunship I'm cool with frigging anything.

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Posted (edited)

I'm looking forward to a second ed first lol. As much as I love clone wars, I don't think I'd come back to Armada just for that. Maybe, but but when I already have X-wing and soon maybe Legion.... Likely not. 

But before even that second ed Imp Assault I really hope.

Edited by ForceSensitive
Didn't complete

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Keeping my fingers crossed Clone Wars makes its way to Armada.

Aside from the CW ships being visually pleasing, some more faction variety in Armada would be wonderful. I want to see different ships on the table in different fleet makeups. I'm getting a little bored of seeing Empire vs Rebel, Empire vs Empire, or Rebel vs Rebel. New factions might mean new/different archetypes to fleet building or theme that the existing factions don't follow. I personally think that Clone Wars factions will give a little more newness to the game than just sticking with the same two factions and giving them more and more ships.

And I don't believe that CW content coming to Armada will mean a dead stop to Galactic Civil War era ships until the CW factions catch up. I think GCW new ships would just be released in a lesser amount for a time. Kind of like what it sounds like they'll be doing for Legion (80% Clone Wars expansions, 20% Empire and Rebel expansions).

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53 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Keeping my fingers crossed Clone Wars makes its way to Armada.

Aside from the CW ships being visually pleasing, some more faction variety in Armada would be wonderful. I want to see different ships on the table in different fleet makeups. I'm getting a little bored of seeing Empire vs Rebel, Empire vs Empire, or Rebel vs Rebel. New factions might mean new/different archetypes to fleet building or theme that the existing factions don't follow. I personally think that Clone Wars factions will give a little more newness to the game than just sticking with the same two factions and giving them more and more ships.

And I don't believe that CW content coming to Armada will mean a dead stop to Galactic Civil War era ships until the CW factions catch up. I think GCW new ships would just be released in a lesser amount for a time. Kind of like what it sounds like they'll be doing for Legion (80% Clone Wars expansions, 20% Empire and Rebel expansions).

They did that for X-Wing (out of a 4-ship wave, 1 rebel, 1 empire, 2 scum) for a good portion of the latter half of the game. It's also part of the reason I jumped ship to Armada, not only was Armada coming out around the time, but I could stick with the factions I preferred.

All I'm saying is that I don't want this for Armada. While I'd like to play with the clone wars ships, I would rather field them in the current factions than have a split-off faction with ships blocked behind a faction wall. It also doesn't make sense when factions in the Galactic Civil War actually flew these ships!

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14 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

I would rather field them in the current factions than have a split-off faction with ships blocked behind a faction wall. It also doesn't make sense when factions in the Galactic Civil War actually flew these ships!

Neither faction gets close to everything they flew.  But alternate cardboard would allow the utilization of the models and new ship choices.  The variants would probably be different, but that's for balance, so it's not like any faction would be "missing out" when they wouldn't have received it anyway.

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20 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

They did that for X-Wing (out of a 4-ship wave, 1 rebel, 1 empire, 2 scum) for a good portion of the latter half of the game. It's also part of the reason I jumped ship to Armada, not only was Armada coming out around the time, but I could stick with the factions I preferred.

All I'm saying is that I don't want this for Armada. While I'd like to play with the clone wars ships, I would rather field them in the current factions than have a split-off faction with ships blocked behind a faction wall. It also doesn't make sense when factions in the Galactic Civil War actually flew these ships!

So if they were to release two waves a year (in a hypothetical magical Christmas land of FFG releases for Armada), would one with one ship for each of the four factions and one wave with just Clone Wars ships be bad? That way Clone Wars gets to catch up a bit without Empire and Rebel players being left without new content for a year or more.

Yes, the rebels used the occasional separatist ship and the Empire used republic ships for a little while after the war, but it would make far more sense to have the Clone Wars ships be in their own factions since that's what they're commonly known for. Throwing the Clone Wars ships into the existing factions also completely denies the release of CW era specific upgrades, like characters. 

In the meantime, if you are looking for a fleet battle game that combines Rebels and Republic vs Empire and Separatist, you could always look at Wizards of the Coast's old Star Wars Miniatures Starship Battles. Less faction boundaries but you may want to get used to having warped ships.

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24 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Yes, the rebels used the occasional separatist ship and the Empire used republic ships for a little while after the war, but it would make far more sense to have the Clone Wars ships be in their own factions since that's what they're commonly known for.

I think that train has already left the station. There are already to many CW era ships in the game (Arquitens, Pelta, Gozanti, CR90). I don't think you can make a Republic faction without using several ships that are already in the game.

 

Plus, if they ever bring the Venator to Armada without an Imperial variant i will go on a strike. I want that imperial Venator! (and a republic one too)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Derpzilla88 said:

So if they were to release two waves a year (in a hypothetical magical Christmas land of FFG releases for Armada

that said...

Core-wave 2 released in 2015
That's 9 ships 3 fighter packs... in a year
Wave 3-5 dropped in 2016
adding 6 ships and 2 fighter packs (plus a campaign)... in a year

If they add a new faction to armada, I don't think it's a far stretch to say they'll pick up the pace to match the early game production schedule... 

Edited by Darth Sanguis

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I think everyone here is forgetting a very vital thing.

The only thing stopping you from running an ISD, Profunity, Howlrunner, and Z95s in the same list... is the OP rules.

 

You can do whatever you want in a casual game. It doesn't have to make sense. So when Clone Wars does come out, you can still run whatever ships you want together in casual games. Adding factions will only help OP as well. CW will bring in more players and help the casual game, as well as the OP game though.

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1 hour ago, LordCola said:

I think that train has already left the station. There are already to many CW era ships in the game (Arquitens, Pelta, Gozanti, CR90). I don't think you can make a Republic faction without using several ships that are already in the game.

 

Plus, if they ever bring the Venator to Armada without an Imperial variant i will go on a strike. I want that imperial Venator! (and a republic one too)

To be fair, the Republic Arquitens and Pelta are different variants (if only slightly in some cases. The Clone Wars pelta lacks the wings), so their attack dice, squad command, engineering value, and/or maneuvering could all be different enough to make them act like a different ship. The Gozanti's weren't tied to any faction (seen in Separatist fleets but I don't recall ever seeing one in battle) in the CW, so they could just stay Imperial.

I'm definitely not against an Imperial Venator. But, that is the most iconic/recognizable Republic ship so if I had to place money on which faction would get it first...

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