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Gudmo

Dual Weapons and Vicious Quality

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A question was raised in our group when a PC activated two crits on a dual strike.

So he activated linked and then 2 criticals. Each axe has vicious 1

He wants to represent vicious as a total of 2 instead of a non-cumulative 1

I said critical hit with a +20 (for vicious 1 and the second crit)

He said critical hit with a +30 (for vicious 2 and the second crit)

What do you rule gurus out there have to say?

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I believe your ruling is more accurate. You only inflict one injury per hit; you just increase the severity after the first. So you only apply the first weapon's Vicious.

However, his argument is somewhat valid, as the rulebook doesn't explain exactly how passive qualities work in two-weapon combat.

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Interesting, I'd love to hear more opinions..

I'd seething to create a six armed monster with link 5 and vicious 2 :D

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You do not apply passive quality to the secondary hit if its normal 2 weapon Rules. Only if its a shield see ROT p 93.

So its just vicious 1. Same way you would not add 2 boost die if it was both Accurate. 

Little unsure if OP means he activated linked? Or activated the dual strike talent but the answer is still the same Hope it helps. 

Note yoy can spend advantages and triumps to activated Active qaulities from either weapon. 

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1 minute ago, Archellus said:

You do not apply passive quality to the secondary hit if its normal 2 weapon Rules. Only if its a shield see ROT p 93.

So its just vicious 1. Same way you would not add 2 boost die if it was both Accurate. 

Little unsure if OP means he activated linked? Or activated the dual strike talent but the answer is still the same Hope it helps. 

Note yoy can spend advantages and triumps to activated Active qaulities from either weapon. 

While I agree with you and would rule it the same way, reading up on it is a bit weird.

On page 108, Two-Weapon Combat: "First, the player designates one weapon as the primary weapon. When making the combined check, the character attacks with this weapon."

And on page 89, Vicious quality: "When an attack with this weapon results in a Critical Injury or Hit, the character adds ten times the Vicious rating to the Critical roll."

Emphasis on "attack", not "hit". Even though the second hit is dealth with the secondary weapon, the attack is performed by the primary weapon. So RAW (but maybe not RAI), when doing two-weapon combat, all hits use the vicious rating of the primary weapon. In this particular example though, both weapons have the same vicious rating, so it wouldn't matter.

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it is weird. And my answer was slightly wrong was late night here :) the passive is not counted when assembling the pool but counts when you activate the hit. The problem here is in the OP. Thats why i ask if its was the linked quality or 2 weapon hits

"So he activated linked and then 2 criticals. Each axe has vicious 1"

If its 2 crits its 2 seperate crit rolls on the table with passive qualities. If its just 1 hit then you can only crit once. If he activates 2 crits on 1 roll that becomes +10 on top of what ever else he does with his weapon. But the 2 vicious dont stack. 

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I think I would rule that any criticals would only apply to the attack, i.e. the primary weapon. The linked hit is just that, a separate hit. So Vicious 1 and second crit for a total of one critical hit roll at +20.

I understand the argument for seperate rolls but still think it's not in the general atmosphere of the system and also think that linked attacks as well as auto-fire were not intended for this as it would be OP for specialized adversaries.

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Well its one crit for one hit. 

For autofire it says specific

"Auto-fire weapons can also activate one Critical Injury for each hit generated on the attack, per the normal rules; the Critical Injury must be applied to the target of the specific hit."

Remember you must generte enough advantages or triumps for this though. 

So lets say a crit rating of 3 would be 2 adv for the 2nd hit 3 adv for first crit and 3 adv for 2nd crit. All in one roll. 

That is going to be superrare but not Impossible. 

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I believe @Archellus is correct. If the player wants the second axe to have vicous apply it would need to roll its own crit.  The end result would be 2 separate crits that each have +1 added (in addition to any additional activations, which cost more advantage). I believe this to be the RAW method. 

 

I couldn't find the link, but I know the developers answered a question about a character dual wielding 2 weapons with the Superior quality, and the second weapon only gets to add the +1 advantage to the roll if you first spend the 2 advantage to make it hit. Then its qualities come into play. So I could also see an argument for spending 2 advantage first  (to activate the second hit) and then activating a critical with the specific goal to only perform 1 crit with +2 vicious.

 

I say go with whatever the table agrees on. Or allow both, but they have to choose to either make a single combined crit, or separate crits. They can't mix and match within the same roll.

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As I understand the situation the player , whose character attack with two axes, made an attack roll then activated the linked quality, so both axes hit on this single roll, then activated two critical, one for each axe I presume. Since it's a single attack roll I'd have the player roll a single critical +30 for both vicious +1 from the axes and the 2nd crit. And frankly I don't care if RAW says the contrary. For me it's more logical to rule with a single critical roll + vicious stacking when the linked quality is active. Even if I wonder how many advantages were generated on this roll to activate linked and two critical.

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Posted (edited)

You can activate one Critical Injury per hit. And, per the OP, the PC hit twice, which means they can activate two crits.

The first crit is 1d100+10 since it's a Vicious 1 (+10) weapon (assuming no existing crits). The second crit is 1d100+20 since it's a Vicious 1 (+10) weapon and there is one existing crit (+10).

Edited by c__beck

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I am no rules guru and coming mainly from Star Wars and only just started with Genesys: how do you link two axes in the first place? Is that possible with Genesys?

 

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15 minutes ago, Seam said:

I am no rules guru and coming mainly from Star Wars and only just started with Genesys: how do you link two axes in the first place? Is that possible with Genesys?

 

It's not the Linked quality but rather the Two-Weapon Combat rules. I believe it's the same as in SWRPG, but you increase the difficulty once and then you can spend two advantage to hit with the second weapon.

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