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heychadwick

Grappling Struts - I had good fun

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Hi All,

I've been working on lists with a lot of Vulture Droids for CIS and having a lot of fun.  I've experimented with the Buzz Droids and definitely Energy Shell Case Missiles.  I also have tried to use Grappling Struts.  I put them in my first list and tried a couple games with them the first night.  I didn't use them once.  Everything was new and trying to figure it all out.  It was hard to go against 7 years of AVOIDING the rocks to it being ok to land on them.  At 3 pts each, you really need to consider them as that's pretty expensive.  I had gotten them more as an insurance policy in case I landed on the rocks.  I ended up building a bunch of lists without them.

I started to think that you really needed to build a strategy around them working and asteroid placement would be key.  I figure you need the largest 3 asteroids to make the most of it.  You would also want to place asteroids about where you think shooting would occur with you on the asteroids.   Think of the Rule of 11 and try to place them in areas that can really work for you.  When I tried it with games tonight it was odd to think about where you want to place them as it was really the opposite of where I would normally try to place them.  I think a good place is right about the middle of the board at about R3 from the starting edge.  You want to think about where you can land a Vulture or two and get a commanding field of fire.

My real practice game that I was trying to use them tonight was hard to get into the mindset.  I had a ship that I Barrel Rolled away from a big rock because I was worried about hitting it.   Lucky Jedi shots at R3 killed that guy when I could've just sat on that rock.  I was playing against Anakin with Calibrated Lasers and two Jedi with 7B.  These guys were squirrelly and it was hard to corner these guys.  I eventually got to sit 2 Vultures on a rock and just rotate to where I thought they would be.  The Jedi had a hard time dealing with someone that was not moving and could just rotate.  It was a very close game, but I won due to being able to force my opponent to react to my sitting there.  

Some overall thoughts on it:

  • you get to do an action while sitting on the asteroid.  This includes reloading ESC and also doing Calc to generate tokens for you or those near you.
  • If you can land with asteroid showing in front of you this is good.  You aren't obstructed by the asteroid you are on, but shots at you are obstructed.  It makes great protection.
  • Two ships can sit on each asteroid, so you can rotate your bases to cover multiple arcs.  You can share Calc tokens, especially if one doesn't have a shot.  Well worth it for arc dodging enemy.
  • You have to do a 2 straight to get off the asteroid, so it's not an easy move to plan when getting off.  

Overall, I had a great time using them tonight and I think they are a sleeper hit of the Vulture Droid.  

Anyone else have good experience with them?

 

 

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On 3/29/2019 at 2:25 AM, heychadwick said:

Hi All,

I've been working on lists with a lot of Vulture Droids for CIS and having a lot of fun.  I've experimented with the Buzz Droids and definitely Energy Shell Case Missiles.  I also have tried to use Grappling Struts.  I put them in my first list and tried a couple games with them the first night.  I didn't use them once.  Everything was new and trying to figure it all out.  It was hard to go against 7 years of AVOIDING the rocks to it being ok to land on them.  At 3 pts each, you really need to consider them as that's pretty expensive.  I had gotten them more as an insurance policy in case I landed on the rocks.  I ended up building a bunch of lists without them.

I started to think that you really needed to build a strategy around them working and asteroid placement would be key.  I figure you need the largest 3 asteroids to make the most of it.  You would also want to place asteroids about where you think shooting would occur with you on the asteroids.   Think of the Rule of 11 and try to place them in areas that can really work for you.  When I tried it with games tonight it was odd to think about where you want to place them as it was really the opposite of where I would normally try to place them.  I think a good place is right about the middle of the board at about R3 from the starting edge.  You want to think about where you can land a Vulture or two and get a commanding field of fire.

My real practice game that I was trying to use them tonight was hard to get into the mindset.  I had a ship that I Barrel Rolled away from a big rock because I was worried about hitting it.   Lucky Jedi shots at R3 killed that guy when I could've just sat on that rock.  I was playing against Anakin with Calibrated Lasers and two Jedi with 7B.  These guys were squirrelly and it was hard to corner these guys.  I eventually got to sit 2 Vultures on a rock and just rotate to where I thought they would be.  The Jedi had a hard time dealing with someone that was not moving and could just rotate.  It was a very close game, but I won due to being able to force my opponent to react to my sitting there.  

Some overall thoughts on it:

  • you get to do an action while sitting on the asteroid.  This includes reloading ESC and also doing Calc to generate tokens for you or those near you.
  • If you can land with asteroid showing in front of you this is good.  You aren't obstructed by the asteroid you are on, but shots at you are obstructed.  It makes great protection.
  • Two ships can sit on each asteroid, so you can rotate your bases to cover multiple arcs.  You can share Calc tokens, especially if one doesn't have a shot.  Well worth it for arc dodging enemy.
  • You have to do a 2 straight to get off the asteroid, so it's not an easy move to plan when getting off.  

Overall, I had a great time using them tonight and I think they are a sleeper hit of the Vulture Droid.  

Anyone else have good experience with them?

 

 

Aren't the Struts restricted to use only if there's no other Vulture on the rock?  That's what I see on the card...

[never mind - misread the 1 or fewer.  My bad]

 

Edited by feltipern1

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5 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I foresee much use in Tragedy Simming some seismic charges. 😃 

Which Imp ship can do this again? 

Why bother when you can bring the obstacles they cannot sit on? :)

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5 hours ago, TheCeilican said:

So long as you barrel roll template doesn't cross over the rock, I guess it works!

I don't think that matters as when the struts are opened "you ignore obstacles at range 0 and while you move through them", and barrel rolls are considered moves by the Rules Reference.

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Sorry for the ignorance, but to get onto a rock to sit on it with grappling struts, do you have to end the maneuver with the ship at the end of the movement template AND on the rock or if your movement template overlaps a rock, you can choose to stop part-way through the maneuver on the rock?

For example, if a 2 straight lands me directly on the rock, is that the correct maneuver in order to use the struts, or if I dial in a 5 straight, I can opt to complete the 5 or stop on the rock?

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48 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Sorry for the ignorance, but to get onto a rock to sit on it with grappling struts, do you have to end the maneuver with the ship at the end of the movement template AND on the rock or if your movement template overlaps a rock, you can choose to stop part-way through the maneuver on the rock?

For example, if a 2 straight lands me directly on the rock, is that the correct maneuver in order to use the struts, or if I dial in a 5 straight, I can opt to complete the 5 or stop on the rock?

From what I can see, you only have to be executing a maneuver, not completing one.  The card's above - with the landing condition.

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5 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

From what I can see, you only have to be executing a maneuver, not completing one.  The card's above - with the landing condition.

To count as an overlap you need to land on the obstacle, otherwise you're moving through it which doesn't trigger the struts to be able to be opened.

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57 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

For example, if a 2 straight lands me directly on the rock, is that the correct maneuver in order to use the struts, or if I dial in a 5 straight, I can opt to complete the 5 or stop on the rock?

Need to overlap to trigger the ability to open them, so 2 straight in your example. The 5 straight would result in moving through which does not trigger the option to open the struts.

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Some clarification for my simple mind if you don’t mind about struts open vs closed:

Open- “While you execute a maneuver, if you overlap an asteroid or debris cloud and there are 1 or fewer other friendly ships at range 0 of that obstacle, you may flip this card.”

 

Closed- “You ignore obstacles at range 0 and while you move through them. After you reveal your dial, if you reveal a maneuver other than a 2 Icon maneuver straight.png and are at range 0 of an asteroid or debris cloud, skip your Execute Maneuver step and remove 1 stress token; if you reveled a right or left maneuver, rotate your ship 90° in that direction. After you execute a maneuver, flip this card.”

1)  Set template down and you move through an asteroid.  -normal penalties?

 

2) Set template down and you land on an asteroid.  ‘Flip Landing Struts to open’ -ignore the asteroid thus allowing an action and no damage roll?

 

3) next round, reveal a right turn.  Rotate 90° right and remove stress.  -Then Flip card over?

 

Here is where I get confused.  Closed side says skip execute maneuver, so when the card gets flipped to open wouldn’t normal asteroid penalties apply?

 

Or... does the card get flipped to open then flipped immediately back to closed?

Edited by Ccwebb
Spelling

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Grappling struts are novel, but probably will never be a thing in a Trick Shot secondary arc / time on target meta. 

Besides Noob Clouds, one could also just bring the three smallest asteroids. Nowhere to really sit and hide. Easy to place the other rocks away from area of engagement. But, they're a neat addition to the game in a playful way, even if they're annoying to balance on a rock/debris and increase the potential for inadvertent shift of game state in regards to 200/6.

Edited by Cloaker

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21 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

Some clarification for my simple mind if you don’t mind about struts open vs closed:

Open CLOSED- “While you execute a maneuver, if you overlap an asteroid or debris cloud and there are 1 or fewer other friendly ships at range 0 of that obstacle, you may flip this card.”

 

Closed OPEN- “You ignore obstacles at range 0 and while you move through them. After you reveal your dial, if you reveal a maneuver other than a 2 Icon maneuver straight.png and are at range 0 of an asteroid or debris cloud, skip your Execute Maneuver step and remove 1 stress token; if you reveled a right or left maneuver, rotate your ship 90° in that direction. After you execute a maneuver, flip this card.”

1)  Set template down and you move through an asteroid.  -normal penalties?

 

2) Set template down and you land on an asteroid.  ‘Flip Landing Struts to open’ -ignore the asteroid thus allowing an action and no damage roll?

 

3) next round, reveal a right turn.  Rotate 90° right and remove stress.  -Then Flip card over?

 

Here is where I get confused.  Closed side says skip execute maneuver, so when the card gets flipped to open wouldn’t normal asteroid penalties apply?

 

Or... does the card get flipped to open then flipped immediately back to closed?

1. You've got the sides flipped. Here:

Closed: swz29_struts-closed.png

 

Open:swz29_struts-open.png

 

2.) RAW the struts auto close even if on a rock/debris (Trigger timing. Trigger to open is "while", trigger to close is "after".). RAI they don't till after you hop off of the rock/debris either by performing a maneuver (2 straight or Ionization) or after any maneuver if you had rolled off the rock/debris the turn before.

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1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Need to overlap to trigger the ability to open them, so 2 straight in your example. The 5 straight would result in moving through which does not trigger the option to open the struts.

"Overlap" is a bit unclear.  I assume you're taking the meaning that overlap means "physically occupy the same space while not maneuvering", as in a ship overlaps another or overlaps an obstacle if it ends its maneuver on that obstacle or in contact with the opposing ship's base?  If I recall, that's the rulebook definition, correct?

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2 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

"Overlap" is a bit unclear.  I assume you're taking the meaning that overlap means "physically occupy the same space while not maneuvering", as in a ship overlaps another or overlaps an obstacle if it ends its maneuver on that obstacle or in contact with the opposing ship's base?  If I recall, that's the rulebook definition, correct?

Correct and that is the trigger that the closed side of Grappling Struts is looking for to permit it to be flipped.

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44 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

3) next round, reveal a right turn.  Rotate 90° right and remove stress.  -Then Flip card over?

No, you skip the Execute Maneuver step and remove a stress.  Then, if you revealed a turn, you rotate.  However, you still have not executed a maneuver, so you don't flip the card.

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1 hour ago, Cloaker said:

Grappling struts are novel, but probably will never be a thing in a Trick Shot secondary arc / time on target meta. 

Besides Noob Clouds, one could also just bring the three smallest asteroids. Nowhere to really sit and hide. Easy to place the other rocks away from area of engagement. But, they're a neat addition to the game in a playful way, even if they're annoying to balance on a rock/debris and increase the potential for inadvertent shift of game state in regards to 200/6.

I don't know.  Maybe not "the" list to take, but definitely very competitive.  I think the fewer people that use them make those that get good even better.   

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4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I don't know.  Maybe not "the" list to take, but definitely very competitive.  I think the fewer people that use them make those that get good even better.   

I think 2 points would have been more appropriate (possibly 1, although that's less obvious), -1 point makes a big diff in list-building with these swarmers.

I've had 2 types of games with  vultures so far: they either pop like fizz candy where I'm losing one+ every round (lose), or they're  surprising me with their resilience (win) ... just madly subject to dice variance and crit draws. I can play better for sure, but I suspect that feeling won't go away.

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I had a blast with these last night. I only ran grappling struts on 2 of my vultures and parked them on the biggest asteroids I could find. Because everyone was too busy dealing with Dooku and Greivous they basically ignored my little vultures as they turreted around and got shots every turn. Even managed to pot shot Vader with a lucky shot.

These work well in small numbers and if you have bigger threats on the board. People only shoot at them if they have no other shot since they aren't much of a threat. They do manage to sneak in a damage every now and then, so I find them well worth it (until my group gets wise to my shenanigans and start targeting my little minions)

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