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Sprues Advantages/Disadvantages

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14 hours ago, Derrault said:

I prefer the more flexible, and thus less prone to breaking, side of things.

Which goes to my main worry about the sprues; @TauntaunScout if FFG fails to include a part, or has a damaged one in the package, I have every reason to believe they’ll replace it post haste.

But if it gets damaged from trying to cut it off the Sprue? Why would the company have any onus to do so then, apart from sheer good will? Sprues act to transfer liability for damaged parts from the manufacturer straight to the consumer. And with hard plastic, you can bet your bottom dollar that’s going to happen. It’s not if, but when.

I've been buying and assembling sprues of miniatures for 20 years. I can't remember ever damaging something cutting it off the sprue. I think your concerns are overblown.

I'm welcoming this change, most especially because it will very likely result in better looking models. Legion releases have been getting better and better, but even the best of them are poor compared to every other game I play. 

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6 minutes ago, Jake the Hutt said:

I've been buying and assembling sprues of miniatures for 20 years. I can't remember ever damaging something cutting it off the sprue. I think your concerns are overblown.

I'm welcoming this change, most especially because it will very likely result in better looking models. Legion releases have been getting better and better, but even the best of them are poor compared to every other game I play. 

Resin will have issues cutting off pieces of sprue from the model - may well take a chunk of the model out with it.

Polystyrene generally not if you are carefully. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Derrault said:

You’re right of course, I should have been using my nanoblade-knife this whole time.  🙄

As to your complaint about the baggies, I’ve literally never lost a piece with them, and they make it easy to quickly assemble several boxes in a row; sprues pretty much make that impossible. 

Not you, THEY loose pieces!

Do you know how many errors there were on the core box?? An indecent amount...  It is not the same to manipulate one sprue than a dozen small pieces. 

Edited by Tubb

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18 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

Don't count on that.  The overwhelming amount of recycled plastic went to China and they just banned imports of used plastic. 

Well, the recycling in my area hasn't changed any, so the must be doing something with the stuff put out for recycling. I'm doing my part by putting it in the recycling bin, if they're just throwing it away, then they're acting and bad faith and not doing what I pay the company for.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Derrault said:

The obvious reason, which I already supplied in the post you quoted, being that the user broke the piece, not the company.

@Tubb I have a xacto bladed knife for trimming, although that risks losing significant detail (not to mention the added potential for self injury) from the amount of force required to sheer through.

If they’re comparable to Bloodbowl sprues, I do not at all look forward to the time required in detaching hundreds of brittle and sharp droid parts (literally the worst of both worlds). Edit: Assembly time just quintupled, great!

GW won't usually replace things you break. I've had ups and downs with them over the years. Sometimes they ship me a kit with a missing part and I get an entire free kit. Other times they refuse to do anything at all if parts are shipped missing and damaged. FFG has always replaced the missing parts for me.

I am overall sad about the switch to hard plastic because I liked Legion being something different than what else I was already doing. But I don't really care that much one way or another.

Tools are not an issue, all you need is an X-Acto knife and a few tiny files. Available at bigbox craft stores. The files are in the jewelery making supplies. One double sided file with a D cross section that comes to a point, is possibly the only one you ever need, though I own tons. I also own a pin vise and mini-hacksaw but I don't really need them. A small double sided file with a D cross section that comes to a point, is really all you need besides and X-Acto knife and a cutting surface. Such files are cheap if you shop around at not-miniatures-stores. Course I am a man of a certain age so I compulsively buy tools I might "need" someday.

Edited by TauntaunScout

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4 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Well, the recycling in my area hasn't changed any, so the must be doing something with the stuff put out for recycling. 

It hasn't changed in a way you've noticed yet.....this is a mushroom shaped problem and we're all getting real close to the top of the stem.  

Keep an eye on this.

https://theweek.com/articles/819488/america-recycling-problem-heres-how-solve

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/business/US-Struggles-With-What-to-Do-With-Tons-of-Recycled-Material-489971551.html

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12 hours ago, Thraug said:

You must be a sprue wizard. I've been assmebling and painting minis for 40+ years (several 1000s of minis) and sprues just simply take at least twice as long to assemble, usually a lot more.

I think the detail on the current Legion bagged minis is great, especially for tabletop play.

I guess I really must be a sprue wizard. It baffles my mind that there are so many people here who are so troubled by the prospect of clipping parts off a sprue. It's not difficult or dangerous and it does not take very long to do. I'm trying not to be mean here, and engage in juvenile name-calling, but honestly... 

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15 minutes ago, Albertese said:

I guess I really must be a sprue wizard. It baffles my mind that there are so many people here who are so troubled by the prospect of clipping parts off a sprue. It's not difficult or dangerous and it does not take very long to do. I'm trying not to be mean here, and engage in juvenile name-calling, but honestly... 

Change makes people nervous. I myself have never played a miniatures game where models came on sprues (twilight imperium notwithstanding), but at this point I've gone pretty deep on modeling and painting Legion. Sprues seems the logical next step. 

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6 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

I've been buying and assembling sprues of miniatures for 20 years. I can't remember ever damaging something cutting it off the sprue. I think your concerns are overblown.

I'm welcoming this change, most especially because it will very likely result in better looking models. Legion releases have been getting better and better, but even the best of them are poor compared to every other game I play. 

I have only once. And that was a very, very thin gun shield for a Braille scale model that really should have been a PE part.  Since these are game miniatures I doubt we will be getting anything that thin.

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9 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:

I've been buying and assembling sprues of miniatures for 20 years. I can't remember ever damaging something cutting it off the sprue. I think your concerns are overblown.

I'm welcoming this change, most especially because it will very likely result in better looking models. Legion releases have been getting better and better, but even the best of them are poor compared to every other game I play. 

Gee whiz, I must be just lucky to have it happen multiple times assembling blood bowl figures. Alternatively, you’ve drastically downplayed the reality; dwarf beards are about as thin as droid limbs, so expect it to happen frequently. 

9 hours ago, Tubb said:

Not you, THEY loose pieces!

Do you know how many errors there were on the core box?? An indecent amount...  It is not the same to manipulate one sprue than a dozen small pieces. 

Yes, and they are also responsible for replacing those errors when one happens.

When you break something trying to wrest it off a sprue, then there’s no recourse because the fault lies with you.

Minis have so far had ~2-4 pieces, it’s not exactly rocket science keeping track of so few things.

8 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Well, the recycling in my area hasn't changed any, so the must be doing something with the stuff put out for recycling. I'm doing my part by putting it in the recycling bin, if they're just throwing it away, then they're acting and bad faith and not doing what I pay the company for.

It’s a rule change in what gets processed, if there’s even one item with bio material, the whole shipment gets tossed. You could do everything right and it’d still be wasted by one bad actor. 

8 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

GW won't usually replace things you break. I've had ups and downs with them over the years. Sometimes they ship me a kit with a missing part and I get an entire free kit. Other times they refuse to do anything at all if parts are shipped missing and damaged. FFG has always replaced the missing parts for me.

I am overall sad about the switch to hard plastic because I liked Legion being something different than what else I was already doing. But I don't really care that much one way or another.

Tools are not an issue, all you need is an X-Acto knife and a few tiny files. Available at bigbox craft stores. The files are in the jewelery making supplies. One double sided file with a D cross section that comes to a point, is possibly the only one you ever need, though I own tons. I also own a pin vise and mini-hacksaw but I don't really need them. A small double sided file with a D cross section that comes to a point, is really all you need besides and X-Acto knife and a cutting surface. Such files are cheap if you shop around at not-miniatures-stores. Course I am a man of a certain age so I compulsively buy tools I might "need" someday.

Yeah see, I have an Xacto, and a ceramic blade, and clippers; invariably something snaps no matter how much you saw at it. 

2 hours ago, GunNut said:

I have only once. And that was a very, very thin gun shield for a Braille scale model that really should have been a PE part.  Since these are game miniatures I doubt we will be getting anything that thin.

Spindly B1 droids. Nuff said. 

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16 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Yeah see, I have an Xacto, and a ceramic blade, and clippers; invariably something snaps no matter how much you saw at it.

Didn't used to be that way. One more price people pay for all endless push for more and more and more detail.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Derrault said:

Gee whiz, I must be just lucky to have it happen multiple times assembling blood bowl figures. Alternatively, you’ve drastically downplayed the reality; dwarf beards are about as thin as droid limbs, so expect it to happen frequently. 

Yes, and they are also responsible for replacing those errors when one happens.

When you break something trying to wrest it off a sprue, then there’s no recourse because the fault lies with you.

Minis have so far had ~2-4 pieces, it’s not exactly rocket science keeping track of so few things.

It’s a rule change in what gets processed, if there’s even one item with bio material, the whole shipment gets tossed. You could do everything right and it’d still be wasted by one bad actor. 

Yeah see, I have an Xacto, and a ceramic blade, and clippers; invariably something snaps no matter how much you saw at it. 

Spindly B1 droids. Nuff said. 

I am really sorry, you should begin to buy boxes and boxes of precut and almost prebuilt minis... finally they will make better minis, and persons that think that premade without options are better minis are not that frequent, thank the maker. You my friend got an unique perspective, seeing less when there's more. In my opinion is that perspective of a boardgame player rather than a miniatures game player. 

Edited by Tubb

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On 3/29/2019 at 10:16 AM, TauntaunScout said:

But, from an environmental aspect, the bagged ones ALSO generate sprue. Just. Not sprues that we gamers ever see.

I'm reasonably sure that isn't true. I think the molds for PVC use hot runners with cutting edges integrated into the mold gates. PVC is soft enough to behave under those conditions and will eject fully finished components with no sprue loss.

That being said, even if waste sprue material was being generated in the factory, it would just get reground and melted in with virgin resin for subsequent runs.

Either way, the current process is relatively efficient in terms of minimizing waste plastic.

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On 3/29/2019 at 7:24 AM, CaptainRocket said:

Positives:

  • More detail
  • Less bending in transit
  • Tighter fit
  • Glue does not cause hazing on clear plastics

Negatives:

  • A lot more work in sniping and sanding
  • More fragile
  • Glue melts the mini so it's not removable, and you have to be more careful with the exact right amount
  • Glue takes longer to dry
  •  

Personally I was happier with the non-sprues, bu I can see how droids might have been really hard to do in existing plastic.

You realize you don't have to use plastic glue with styrene minis, right? If you prefer super glue, you can keep using it, which eliminates two of your Cons.

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54 minutes ago, Tubb said:

I am really sorry, you should begin to buy boxes and boxes of precut and almost prebuilt minis... finally they will make better minis, and persons that think that premade without options are better minis are not that frequent, thank the maker. You my friend got an unique perspective, seeing less when there's more. In my opinion is that perspective of a boardgame player rather than a miniatures game player. 

Right.  Did you forget the whole thread topic? The clone wars minis are, apparently supposed to be on sprues. Buying more of the current units doesnt help.

Your perspective is, in my opinion, toxic and unfriendly.

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8 hours ago, Albertese said:

I guess I really must be a sprue wizard. It baffles my mind that there are so many people here who are so troubled by the prospect of clipping parts off a sprue. It's not difficult or dangerous and it does not take very long to do. I'm trying not to be mean here, and engage in juvenile name-calling, but honestly... 

I said they take twice as long to assemble, or more. That's my 40+ year experience. That's it. Not sure why this is an issue.

 

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I don’t really care.  I’m looking forward to less fiddly thin pieces (like lightsabers and some of the guns), but I actually enjoyed the ease of assembly and minimal mold lines of whatever they’re using now.  

That said, IF this means more options like extra heads and poseability I’ll be happy to clip some sprues just like my other miniatures.  

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My take as a veteran of 15 years building military scale models and warhammer models made on sprue , and as someone familiar with the PVC used in legion:

i think the PVC so far has been good for legion, certainly some of the highest quality I’ve seen (with the exception of cool mini or not’s song of ice and fire, but those are a mix of PVC for the bodies and plastic for the arms/weapons, and pre-assembled), especially for the core legion units.

 

but for the Battledroids et al for the CIS makes a lot of sense.  Those models are just too thin to prevent a lot of warping etc.  though I would have cheered them being PVC, all them being on frames adds some time to the prep/modeling stage, but it’s not a turn off.

 

also, it gives the mini makers a chance to add lots of possibilities and flavor pieces to them as well.

 

also, the B1s being the same price point as existing units for more minis is a huge plus.

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Adding my 2 cents. As a former WHFB player & Warlord Games and someone who enjoys the opportunity to have models that look different from others, I am very excited. The added detail and opportunities for customization far outway any added time.

Anyone concerned about breaking all the pieces or physically harming themselves with an exacto knife can rest at ease. With a little practice, you get very fast and I can't remember a time that I broken a model (6+ armies), although I suppose I may have. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Derrault said:

Right.  Did you forget the whole thread topic? The clone wars minis are, apparently supposed to be on sprues. Buying more of the current units doesnt help.

Your perspective is, in my opinion, toxic and unfriendly.

Again I am sorry, most persons think this is an improvement that has been asked since minute zero, you still consider it a step back, in my perspective, you have enjoyed a golden age of Legion since the minis came as you wished, now there is a change for better, you don't want it. You got the same options I had before.

It is not unfriendly thinking, it is a final point where the reasons we are giving you to defend sprues simply don't seem improvements to you, then there is nothing we can do to convince you. If every small variation from the small bag of rubber is not welcome, nothing will make you change your mind. Obviously you don't care if the minis are worse quality, or that they are repetitive and it is a pain to have more than two equal boxes and paint them again THAT pose, with every sergeant doing exactly the same thing, and every heavy weapon kneeling. It is horrible but you don't care, well, it is your opinion, but don't treat this decision as a step back. You don't like all these improvements simply because you are not specially gifted cuting minis, while in miniatures game it is a normal thing to cut, build and paint (customize) YOUR army. Every company does it, FFG was the exception simply because they were a board game company that entered a diferent world, and didn't know how to do it properly

Edited by Tubb

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Posted (edited)

I have no horse in the preferred minis race, but you're condescending as ****. 

I'd also like to say, while the designers seem happy they have the technical tools to move to harder plastic and sprues (since the thin, mechanical details of droids would be difficult otherwise) this game was explicitly started with accessibility in mind. So to go all high and mighty about "us mini gamers have such more refined tastes than you board game plebs" is not only an ugly look in general (in my opinion as someone who doesn't necessarily feel strongly about either material) and probably gonna agitate quite a lot of the legion fanbase. Don't appeal to tradition, neither, that's a fallacy. 

Edited by UnitOmega

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