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azavander

Sprues Advantages/Disadvantages

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As a new player to war games, Legion being the first, and WotC being my first plasti-crack addiction, I’m not familiar with the advantages or disadvantages of figures shipping on sprues.  Painting diffrences?

I assume that is when they are attached to a grey spine you have to snip them off? 

Since I doubt I am the only noob here thought I would start the topic.

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Posted (edited)

Harder sprue plastics are also less likely to warp or be damaged by temperature, but can be more susceptible to fall damage from my experience.

A few suggestions which are  to clip a bit back from the connection, use an xacto to scrape the plastic flat and use a fine sanding stick or file to smooth. I'd recommend just looking on youtube for "model sprue removal" and you should find plenty of videos. I've been through the gauntlet of learning without that help so hopefully you won't have as much trouble or ruined bits as I did when I started. :D If you do mess up though keep the bits for projects like Jedhead mentioned; a damaged weapon for instance can make great basing details.

 

 

Edited by Tealadin

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2 hours ago, azavander said:

As a new player to war games, Legion being the first, and WotC being my first plasti-crack addiction, I’m not familiar with the advantages or disadvantages of figures shipping on sprues.  Painting diffrences?

I assume that is when they are attached to a grey spine you have to snip them off? 

Since I doubt I am the only noob here thought I would start the topic.

First of all, welcome to the hobby. Second, if you meet a seedy looking guy who tells you that you can say no to Warhammer whenever you want, run away. Fast.

Did I miss an announcement somewhere that FF will start using sprues soon? BTW, the posts above are spot on.

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6 minutes ago, Sharkbelly said:

First of all, welcome to the hobby. Second, if you meet a seedy looking guy who tells you that you can say no to Warhammer whenever you want, run away. Fast.

Did I miss an announcement somewhere that FF will start using sprues soon? BTW, the posts above are spot on.

The Q and A from the livestream was when they did. It'll only be the droid units for now, but they plan on going back gradually and converting all units to using sprues

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I'm so looking forward to this.  I've been forcing some mods with parts for a bit now but this is just a whole new world and opens up kit-bashing possibilities.

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3 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Another advantage is that missing pieces will become less likely.  Can't say I've ever noticed missing pieces from my Bolt Action stuff on sprues, while it's happened more than once in Legion to be missing a piece. 

It happens every once in a while with a miscast sprue or damage in transit. I've personally had both problems with Warhammer 40k and Bolt Action sprues in the past. 

Another typical advantage to sprues is the models often end up significantly more posable than the single poses of Legion's soft plastic releases. As well, hard plastic models typically work with special made plastic glue, which chemically reacts with the plastic and "melts" the pieces together for an arguably stronger bond than CA (super) glue. I find plastic glue significantly easier to use than CA glue, since it takes longer to dry completely, but will hold parts in place while drying.

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9 minutes ago, Cusm said:

Do most of you paint on the sprue and then build and finish/touch up painting? 

I almost exclusively build first and then paint. That way I know what parts of the model are actually visible (by dryfitting). The droids are mostly just going to entail a base coat, wash, and dry brush with some details, so fairly easy to paint either way. 

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6 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I almost exclusively build first and then paint. That way I know what parts of the model are actually visible (by dryfitting). The droids are mostly just going to entail a base coat, wash, and dry brush with some details, so fairly easy to paint either way. 

Same here.  Only exceptions would be if an arm or whatever will make painting another part difficult, I may paint it separately instead. 

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Positives:

  • More detail
  • Less bending in transit
  • Tighter fit
  • Glue does not cause hazing on clear plastics

Negatives:

  • A lot more work in sniping and sanding
  • More fragile
  • Glue melts the mini so it's not removable, and you have to be more careful with the exact right amount
  • Glue takes longer to dry
  •  

Personally I was happier with the non-sprues, bu I can see how droids might have been really hard to do in existing plastic.

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19 minutes ago, CaptainRocket said:

Personally I was happier with the non-sprues, bu I can see how droids might have been really hard to do in existing plastic.

To be honest, nothing stops you from using Super glue on plastic miniatures, and I wasn't exactly impressed with all of the bent barrels that don't stay straight after the hot water trick. 

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Just now, Tvayumat said:

Did they say the miniatures are coming on sprues, or did they say they are coming in polystyrene sprues?

A lot of people here are talking like they are switching plastics from pvc to styrene.

You can make sprues of pvc.

Fair, the wording I remember was "hard plastic sprues." 

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1 hour ago, CaptainRocket said:

Positives:

  • More detail
  • Less bending in transit
  • Tighter fit
  • Glue does not cause hazing on clear plastics

Negatives:

  • A lot more work in sniping and sanding
  • More fragile
  • Glue melts the mini so it's not removable, and you have to be more careful with the exact right amount
  • Glue takes longer to dry
  •  

Personally I was happier with the non-sprues, bu I can see how droids might have been really hard to do in existing plastic.

Given the level of detail on the Pathfinders and Deathtroopers, I find it hard to credit the claim that there’s going to be any added value to the customer there.

The burden of having to remove parts from sprues (and the ever present risk of damage, especially to thin parts) vastly outweighs any mere aesthetic potential (not guaranteed, but simple potential).

Sprues are value gain for the manufacture, and an added burden on the customer. And this while increasing the cost of the core set. Right. 

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6 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Given the level of detail on the Pathfinders and Deathtroopers, I find it hard to credit the claim that there’s going to be any added value to the customer there.

The burden of having to remove parts from sprues (and the ever present risk of damage, especially to thin parts) vastly outweighs any mere aesthetic potential (not guaranteed, but simple potential).

Sprues are value gain for the manufacture, and an added burden on the customer. And this while increasing the cost of the core set. Right. 

Notably the cost of the individual Corps units did not increase though. Even at an increase of $10, the core set is still a great value. 

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22 minutes ago, Derrault said:

.... 

The burden of having to remove parts from sprues (and the ever present risk of damage, especially to thin parts) vastly outweighs any mere aesthetic potential (not guaranteed, but simple potential).

Sprues are value gain for the manufacture, and an added burden on the customer. And this while increasing the cost of the core set. Right. 

I disagree with your negativity here.  I was disappointed by having bagged models when the game first launched.  I vastly prefer sprues.  I've seen too many parts in bagged games that were sloppily clipped in the factory. Also, I prefer harder plastic. Also I like how a sprue keeps the parts organized so I don't have to hunt for the itty-bitty detail bits--I just cut them off the sprue when I'm ready to glue it on. 

Will they be more fragile? Marginally. Will they take longer to build having to cut them of a sprue? Hardly. Especially when you consider the savings in time spent looking for little parts that roll out of the bag. 

Sprues are a hundred times better than baggies and I applaud this decision. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Given the level of detail on the Pathfinders and Deathtroopers, I find it hard to credit the claim that there’s going to be any added value to the customer there.

The burden of having to remove parts from sprues (and the ever present risk of damage, especially to thin parts) vastly outweighs any mere aesthetic potential (not guaranteed, but simple potential).

Sprues are value gain for the manufacture, and an added burden on the customer. And this while increasing the cost of the core set. Right. 

I agree that the pathfinders and deathtroopers are better sculpts than we have seen so far. They are definitely bringing their A-game on the last few releases.

That said, they are still a far cry from what you see in, say, GW miniatures. The bent barrels of almost every FFG gun, the ubiquitous (and hard to trim) soft PVC moldlines, and the loss of detail on hands, ammo pouches, etc. are all undeniable. I was recently priming some plastic GW Harlequins and some FFG Pathfinders side-by-side, and the differences were glaring. There is so much more possibility/detail for sculpts using a harder plastic.  In PVC, every single Harlequin sword and accessory would have been warped at funny angles which would never straighten out perfectly. In plastic, they are crisp, detailed, and full of extra options for customization and eventual kitbashes if desired.

Like Albertese above, I also welcome the change to hard plastic and sprues with open arms. I actually was more excited about that than I was about any of the other announcements pertaining to Legion!

 

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Another thing to consider is environmental.   While still plastic, the sprues cut down on useless clear baggies that get thrown out.   While sprues have their own waste, you can be creative with how you use them to make terrain, such as difficult to traverse areas, scatter terrain.

**** get enough and you could make a raxus prime (legends) battlefield.

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15 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Another thing to consider is environmental.   While still plastic, the sprues cut down on useless clear baggies that get thrown out.   While sprues have their own waste, you can be creative with how you use them to make terrain, such as difficult to traverse areas, scatter terrain.

**** get enough and you could make a raxus prime (legends) battlefield.

In some areas you may be able to recycle the sprues. I think polystyrene plastic equates to a number 7?

Another plus, I much prefer sprues when it comes to washing miniatures prior to assembly. Less chance of stuff going down a drain.

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3 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

In some areas you may be able to recycle the sprues. I think polystyrene plastic equates to a number 7?

Another plus, I much prefer sprues when it comes to washing miniatures prior to assembly. Less chance of stuff going down a drain.

Don't count on that.  The overwhelming amount of recycled plastic went to China and they just banned imports of used plastic. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Derrault said:

Given the level of detail on the Pathfinders and Deathtroopers, I find it hard to credit the claim that there’s going to be any added value to the customer there.

Particularly since the models are detailed enough. Too much of a good thing (detail) has turned me off the last few years of GW releases.

Quote

The burden of having to remove parts from sprues (and the ever present risk of damage, especially to thin parts) vastly outweighs any mere aesthetic potential (not guaranteed, but simple potential).

That's balanced out by not having missing pieces in every 4th kit or so I buy.

Quote

Sprues are value gain for the manufacture, and an added burden on the customer. And this while increasing the cost of the core set. Right. 

Yep. This is right out of GW's playbook: "We'll save a ton on overhead this way, so YOU must pay MORE." Thanks guys. A $10 increase for the new core set is fine in and of itself. We'll see if this becomes a flat $5 or so increase across all products though. For the record, $10 in a couple years is WAY ahead of the curve on inflation so it's not a natural result of time going by.

And let's all calm down and remember. Just because it's hard plastic on a sprue does NOT guarantee:

  • More poseability
  • More detail
  • Spare parts
  • Better fit
  • Straighter pieces

There's been some really awful hard plastic sprues in the history of gaming. And we must never forget the "upgrade" to Citadel Finecast. Saved Citadel a ton of money on shipping and materials, yet everything went up in MSRP, and the product was garbage, compared to what it was replacing or by any other metric. Citadel has a long history of this. For example, reducing 5 SKU's of metal IG heavy blisters, down to one SKU of plastic IG heavies. The overhead savings would have been huge from narrowing the SKU's alone. And presumably increased sales cause they didn't have to be worry about being out of stock on the heavy weapon Customer X was looking for in the shop. Plus saving's on shipping costs, materials cost, and packaging cost. Yet the heavy weapons teams jumped nearly 50% in price (depending if you bought a squad or a single team). FFG is not Citadel. But they do have close ties to Citadel, so I will be watching them closely on this one.

 

32 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Another thing to consider is environmental.   While still plastic, the sprues cut down on useless clear baggies that get thrown out.  

I actually re-use all the baggies. But, from an environmental aspect, the bagged ones ALSO generate sprue. Just. Not sprues that we gamers ever see.

3 hours ago, Cusm said:

Do most of you paint on the sprue and then build and finish/touch up painting? 

Depends on the models and the color scheme. But no not usually. For my old school space marine colors, painting a lot of the parts prior to assembly gives me way better results in way less time. It allows me to paint guns that contrast sharply with hands, for example. Or shoulderpad trim, or helmets, that contrast sharply with breastplates. Etc. etc.

Edited by TauntaunScout

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