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Wild Wormhole

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People seem to really like Wild Wormhole. SAS currently has it as a 3.5/4. I don't get it. It seems like too much of a liability in most decks I see. If you have any board wipes in your deck, it becomes too risky to play. If your opponent has an empty board, that gets extended to basically all damage actions, as almost all damage actions don't include the word "may". If your deck has artifact destruction, then that is another entire layer to consider. Even if it does let you play a card from outside of logos, you are almost always going to playing the card at a sub-optimal time. 

I will admit that it works well with library access. But even then it doesn't feel like such an amazing combo that the card can justify how much everyone else seems to think it is good.

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Posted (edited)

As you play your deck, you will know when the right time and the wrong time to play it are. You will know what cards are left in your deck, so maybe you really need that board wipe but it is not in your hand. Count the cards in your deck and roll the dice!

I have a deck that has a couple Wild Wormhole...along with three Effervescent Principle. Not great, but there are also Phase Shifts and a Library Access. I can call Logos and end up playing my Shadow or Brobnar cards, what is not to like?

As the saying goes, "There could be anything in the box, even a boat. You know how much we've always wanted a boat, we'll take the box!"

Edited by KandyKidZero
proofreading

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There are definitely decks I could imagine/build that it would be good in. Brobnar in particular seems to have very few cards that can backfire. 

But even in your example, the risk of hitting Effervescent Principle seems like a big deal to me. That means any time you have more or equal to the amber as your opponent it could backfire pretty horribly. You are not only loosing a good amount of amber, but you are also gaining a chain. Your phase shift and library access combo might be enough to overcome this, but that would still make your deck the exception and not the rule in my mind.

Maybe I just don't want the boat hard enough.

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But as I stated, I know that there are the EPs in the deck, so I am less likely to just fire off the WW blindly and will prefer the other houses until I have the EP in my hand to discard or have already forged my key for the turn and am back down to 0-1 aember where I am less likely to be affected should one be turned over. If I have no aember, I gain one from the WW and lose none. There are also going to be times where an opponent tried to gather enough aember to try and race and I want to set them back for their hubris thinking they could defeat me...er, ahem.

WW adds depth to the play styles of the decks that have it because it is one of the cards that just flat out says "screw the rules, I have money".

 

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Posted (edited)

It’s an amazing card. Firstly your deck is only 36 cards so if you know there’s a card left that could screw you just don’t play it and the more you play the deck the easier it gets to just learn when it’s most useful which is most of the time (as those cards that would hurt you become easy to keep in hand, be in your discard or be in your archive). Otherwise it’s one free aember, with library access it’s also 2 card draw + the benefit of whatever you play which, if you time right you can get a pretty good idea of what’s most likely to pop up.

Edited by TwitchyBait

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Posted (edited)

Kandy,

Maybe I am overestimating how bad having a dead card in your hand is. Having 2 wild wormholes in your hand while sitting at 3+ amber because your opponent keeps preventing you from forging a key, and you can't risk it hitting 1 of your 3 EPs feels like a big self handicap to me. 

 

Twitchy,

If you have reliable archiving, I could see them working out. And if you have few enough bad hits that you can keep them in your hand, I can see that working as well. But I am not sure how to define "few enough". 2 might be too many if they are different types of cards, and 3 might be too many regardless. If I need to worry about hitting EP or a board wipe, then the number of safe turns to play Wild Wormhole would be relatively few. 

 

I feel like I'm getting dragged too far into a hole about how good it is in specific decks, instead of looking at how good it is on average. Wild Wormhole is in 125,259 decks, but only 47,809 of those decks have Library Access (38%). In decks without library access, it is 1 amber plus 1 unpredictable card. If you didn't have Wild Wormhole in your deck it would instead be 1 predictable card. I don't think 1 amber is a good enough payment to make an unpredictable play instead of a predictable one. In a deck with Library Access (1 amber, 2 Draws, 1 unpredictable play vs 1 Draw, 1 predictable play) I can see a valid argument, but all of the cards in the list below risk ruining that (assuming I don't miss any). I don't have a good way to get a percentage for that, but seeing how we are starting at 38%, I have a hard time believing it is reasonably high. I am including rarity next to the card.

 

Coward's End (C)

Arise! (C)

Gateway to Dis (C)

Effervescent Principle (C)

Phosphorus Stars (C)

Save the Pack (C)

Champion's Challenge (R)

Earthshaker (U)

Guilty Hearts (R)

Hecatomb (R)

Oath of Poverty (R)

The Spirit's Way (U)

Truebaru (R)

Kelifi Dragon (R)

Pitlord (R)

Grommid (R)

Treasure Map (R)

Shatter Storm (R)

Key Charge (C)

Chota Hazri (U)

Horseman of Famine (S)

Horseman of War (S)

Three Fates (U)

Tendrils of Pain (U)

Key Hammer (U)

The Sting (R)

Epic Quest (R)

Hysteria (U)

Ammonia Clouds (C)

Mating Season (R)

One Last Job (R)

Poison Wave (C)

 

Commons x 9, Uncommons x 7, Rares x 14, Special x 2

Edited by Revert

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From your list, I think Key Hammer/Shatter Storm is the biggest contender of "card you don't want to play randomly". Everything else has its uses and goes back to "you will know when to use it and when not". Stuff like Kelfi Dragon and Tsubaru have restrictions on if you can play them and if you can't, then they just sit on top and you got an aember. Horseman and Tendrils are weak enough that playing them is not going to be backbreaking. 

True, you can sculpt scenarios to where playing it is going to be bad, and we could counter with other what-if's and what-ifn't's. That is the problem with looking at cards in a vacuum. Just taking Chota Hazri from your list, I could say that sure it could get you another key, but how many games do you actually play with it where it gets you a key versus you discard it to draw a better card, or it is in your opening hand after a mulligan and you feel forced to call Untamed so you don't lose any aember or else you just effectively mulliganed twice since you can't discard it until you draw some Untamed cards.

Even going to answer your question regarding dead cards, no card is truly dead since you can discard it if you don't need it. Part of leveling up your play is learning precisely what works and when in certain situations. I would consider the EPs as far more dead than the WW, but also having three in the deck, I know that I can pitch two and still have a third if I reeeealy need it. If my opponent is keeping me locked down at 3+ aember, I am probably going to rely on the EPs to keep them in a similar boat while I play to my outs.

You can also look as WW as a way to play through your deck quicker so you can shuffle again since you are playing one card from your deck while also playing the wormhole from your hand. That is two cards more than before and you gained an aember along with whatever potential aember from the card you played.

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Board wipes won’t always be bad though because as long as your opponent has a better board presence they tend to be worth it. On top of that while it’s nor a predictable card it’s one additional aember to that card you’d have if you had it in your hand instead of wild wormhole plus it allows for an out of house play which you might not even be able to play otherwise. Thus while not entirely predictable in every deck I have it you just need to time it right by being aware of what’s left in your deck and whether those cards will hurt or help and very rarely is it hurt. There are far more cards that help than hurt off the additional play and combining that with simply being aware of what I haven’t drawn yet and choosing the timing it’s nearly always been a boon to play

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Posted (edited)

Kandy, 

I did list every card that could be bad, and did not rank how bad. I felt like I was trying to stuff too much information into one post. So some of the things are only slightly bad. In exchange, I didn't list any of the cards that have a decent chance of doing nothing (ex: Bait and Switch). I was really uncertain if Chota Hazri was bad enough to make the list. Kelfi Dragon made it because it changes 1 amber and 1 unpredictable card to 1 amber, and 1 amber for playing 1 card is a bad exchange rate, but I could see removing it as well. Truebaru made the list more due to what happens when you have 6 amber instead of what happens when you have 2. My personal definition for dead cards includes cards you are discarding for no effect. A card you would prefer to discard for no effect over playing is probably my definition for a dead card. A card can change from dead to alive depending on board state. 

 

Twitchy,

That is why I called out having 2 different types of cards from the list is worse than having only 1. If your only backfire cards are board wipes, then it should be easy to plan around (not currently commenting on how often you will have the opportunity). If you have a board wipe and a Pitlord, that is much harder to plan for.

 

My point is that enough bad cards exist that the average deck with wild wormhole would have been better without wild wormhole. I'm not saying that it is the worst card in the game, just that I find it confusing that people keep referring to it as an "amazing card" and giving it high rankings. Everybody seems to be talking about it as if it is a A- or B+, but all I can see it as is a C-. Below average, but not so below average that it ruins a deck.

Edited by Revert

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Revert said:

Kandy, 

I did list every card that could be bad, and did not rank how bad. I felt like I was trying to stuff too much information into one post. So some of the things are only slightly bad. In exchange, I didn't list any of the cards that have a decent chance of doing nothing (ex: Bait and Switch). I was really uncertain if Chota Hazri was bad enough to make the list. Kelfi Dragon made it because it changes 1 amber and 1 unpredictable card to 1 amber, and 1 amber for playing 1 card is a bad exchange rate, but I could see removing it as well. Truebaru made the list more due to what happens when you have 6 amber instead of what happens when you have 2. My personal definition for dead cards includes cards you are discarding for no effect. A card you would prefer to discard for no effect over playing is probably my definition for a dead card. A card can change from dead to alive depending on board state. 

 

Twitchy,

That is why I called out having 2 different types of cards from the list is worse than having only 1. If your only backfire cards are board wipes, then it should be easy to plan around (not currently commenting on how often you will have the opportunity). If you have a board wipe and a Pitlord, that is much harder to plan for.

 

My point is that enough bad cards exist that the average deck with wild wormhole would have been better without wild wormhole. I'm not saying that it is the worst card in the game, just that I find it confusing that people keep referring to it as an "amazing card" and giving it high rankings. Everybody seems to be talking about it as if it is a A- or B+, but all I can see it as is a C-. Below average, but not so below average that it ruins a deck.

“My point is that enough bad cards exist in the average deck with wild wormhole would have been better without it”

I completely disagree.

You don’t have to play it as soon as you get it. So let’s say you have 5 cards that would be awful to play, you’ve drawn none of them and none are in your discard pile or archives (super unlikely the longer the game goes) that’s still about a 1/3 chance you’ll get something bad in the worse possible scenario if you decided to throw all caution into the wind and just hold off on your play in the very rare deck where you’re going to have that scenario pop up.

I think you’re looking at the worst case scenario, again knowing what’s left in your deck makes this card really useful the vast majority of the time. That rating wasn’t given to it for no reason and the math on most decks checks out even if you take none of those precautions (though why would you, they’re not hard to do) to usually be positive in outcome.

Edited by TwitchyBait

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1 hour ago, Revert said:

Kandy, 

I did list every card that could be bad, and did not rank how bad. I felt like I was trying to stuff too much information into one post. So some of the things are only slightly bad. In exchange, I didn't list any of the cards that have a decent chance of doing nothing (ex: Bait and Switch). I was really uncertain if Chota Hazri was bad enough to make the list. Kelfi Dragon made it because it changes 1 amber and 1 unpredictable card to 1 amber, and 1 amber for playing 1 card is a bad exchange rate, but I could see removing it as well. Truebaru made the list more due to what happens when you have 6 amber instead of what happens when you have 2. My personal definition for dead cards includes cards you are discarding for no effect. A card you would prefer to discard for no effect over playing is probably my definition for a dead card. A card can change from dead to alive depending on board state. 

Even in your case for Truebaru, if you are at 6, most of the time you are not going to want to go over as 7+ aember is danger territory against many cards. But again, I agree with @TwitchyBait in that your negative scenarios are obscuring your ability to see the card in other's eyes. It is rated high because it is a fun card to play in general and it can lead to some crazy plays. Sure, there are cards that are less variance-based, but it still matters entirely on what your other 35 cards are. As a single card strategy, WW is nowhere near something like Bait and Switch, but there are just as many times where Bait and Switch is a dead card in your hand as well against certain players or certain decks. Every turn you hold onto it and don't play it is like a psuedo-Succubus you can't get rid of.

There are lots of cards people also play "just for the aember", so playing one card for one aember is still better than not playing one or discarding for no aember, especially if that is what you deck requires you to do. It is also going to depend on what your backup Logos cards are for those turns where you have 2-3 creatures to reap along with your WW which could set you up for a different house next turn. WW into Dominator Bauble? Neat, it will be ready for the next time you call Dis. WW into Key Charge without 7 aember? You discarded the top card of your deck and a card from your hand, that is two cards closer to getting everything back. You have two cards left in your deck, one of them that loses you the game and one that wins you the game? Then ask what are the odds of winning greater than giving your opponent a turn with unknown information? In almost every scenario, WW is as powerful as your knowledge of your deck and your ability to play it.

You can theorycraft all you want, but it is not going to actually matter until you are already in your game.

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Chances of playing something you want are almost always higher than something you don't want. And if they're not, you don't have to play WW that turn. Another benefit is that it helps go through your deck more quickly, which is generally useful.

I won't argue that it's the best card, but I'm almost never sad to see one or more in a deck (getting three in a deck with 3 Gateway to Dis and a Key Hammer would be an example of an exception to that)

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It's ok. I never get excited when I see it in my decklist, but I can usually make it do something useful. Nice to pull Dextre off the top of your deck if he's in the way.

Definitely better the deeper you get into the deck, as you can narrow down the possibilities.

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7 hours ago, Revert said:

Even if it does let you play a card from outside of logos, you are almost always going to playing the card at a sub-optimal time. 

One thing that should be mentioned is how Wild Wormhole can help 'momentum', or setting up your next turn. In my experience, Logos is one of the Houses you generally play out everything you have of it in your hand, as it has few entirely situational cards (Effervescent Principle withstanding). Sometimes the right move is to choose Logos on the next turn and use all the readied cards you have. However, thanks to Logos' generous card draw, I often have a handful of another House, and can drop 4-6 cards after going Logos. Using Wild Wormhole on the Logos turn rewards me for doing that by giving me a chance to use a non-Logos card put into play on my Logos turn. Getting 'Blypyp' or 'Mothergun' off of WW and then leading into a Mars turn creates a lot of momentum, even though you jump from one House to another. 

I'd rate it very similar to Phase Shift.

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I really like the card, it has never backfired on me although the potential to is always there. The funny thing is like you said it isn't a great card - if I cared about ratings I don't think I'd say 3.5/4 but I would say a solid 3. 

In general I think the quicker you can move through your deck the better, and that's an area where Wild Wormhole excels. It isn't just putting the card in your hand where you can or can't play it (and thus can or can't draw another card at turn's end) but since it actually plays the card this helps a lot in cycling. If you have cards that could backfire you do need to be careful, and I would say many have made a fair point for knowing when to play it, just like any other card.

So yeah I wouldn't say it's a great card but I would say it is very functional and generally more helpful than not. It may not win you the game but it will disrupt plans for a moment while you and your opponent both stop to ponder what is about to happen.

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20 hours ago, Revert said:

Coward's End (C)

Arise! (C)

Gateway to Dis (C)

Effervescent Principle (C)

 Phosphorus Stars (C)

Save the Pack (C)

Champion's Challenge (R)

Earthshaker (U)

 Guilty Hearts (R)

Hecatomb (R) 

 Oath of Poverty (R)

The Spirit's Way (U) 

Truebaru (R)

Kelifi Dragon (R)

Pitlord (R)

Grommid (R)

Treasure Map (R) 

Shatter Storm (R)

Key Charge (C) 

Chota Hazri (U) 

 Horseman of Famine (S)

Horseman of War (S)

Three Fates (U)

Tendrils of Pain (U)

Key Hammer (U)

The Sting (R)

Epic Quest (R)

 Hysteria (U) 

Ammonia Clouds (C)

Mating Season (R)

One Last Job (R) 

Poison Wave (C) 

A lot of these are only bad when you're ahead, in which case you typically can afford to just discard a card for handspace. When you're behind, though, some of them become very good pulls.

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By far my only frustration is with WW is that I'll either play it early, and get something that would have been really sweet after I had done my other plays (like a Ganger Chieftan before I've played creatures) or I'll play it late and get something that would have been an amazing set up for the turn. Otherwise I don't think I've ever had a real devastating play that I can recall.

But I'd still rather play it then not. Going 2 cards deeper into your deck (more if you've played library access) is nothing to sneeze at.

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It's a 1 aember card that allows you to play a random card from your or an other house. That's the sweet bit.

There are many cards that just shovel cards to the discard jsut as randomly, cards that you might have needed. There are other cards that also allow you to draw cards but that probably aren't from the current house and thus not really playable.

It's not awesome, it depends on your deck's content, but it allows some sweet plays if you know your deck well enough.

I prefer phase shift, but then it's pretty much a dead card unless you ahve the right combos.

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