Two Ship Dominates: Final Regionals 2018-2019 Data Analysis

[AdmiralOldOwlz 43]

Superb work here. Thanks you.

 

Does data Say anything on mass uses of YT-2400?

[BiggsIRL 6,751]

4 hours ago, Truthiness said:

 "You can take any Reb ship, but only four commanders. You can take most Imp commanders, but only these 4 ships..."

The meta cried out for a savior... and it got a Rolling Dumpster Fire.

[BiggsIRL 6,751]

A POST SO NICE, I MADE IT TWICE.

Edited March 27, 2019 by BiggsIRL

[The Jabbawookie 5,751]

9 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

The meta cried out for a savior... and it got a Rolling Dumpster Fire.

The hero we deserve... but not the one we need.

[geek19 6,589]

1 hour ago, BiggsIRL said:

The meta cried out for a savior... and it got a Rolling Dumpster Fire.

They'll look up at and shout "Save us!" I'll look down on them and say "I'll give you tokens in 2 rounds!"

[GM Jocke 16]

In my (small) experience, sloane aces have a good matchup against 2-ship. In my meta sloane list also run pryce and as long the sloane player avoid a good splash alpha from Mauler they win the squadfight. 

[Norell 1,205]

Well then, let's stsrtworking on the double ship fleet counters

[Akhrin 576]

2 hours ago, Grand Moff Deadblom said:

In my (small) experience, sloane aces have a good matchup against 2-ship. In my meta sloane list also run pryce and as long the sloane player avoid a good splash alpha from Mauler they win the squadfight. 

Ended up with a 10-1 (despite a tough fight) with my Sloane 2-ship against Thrawn 2-ship for much that reason. The Sloane version is basically designed to out-do the Thrawn version in that mirror matchup. In fact, it was Sloane generics that gave me one of my closest fights of the day!

16 hours ago, IronNerd said:

*sigh* Please don't tell me that, even with this data, our response is just going to be "git gud"?

Definitely not! But I would say that surprise vs familiarity has a huge impact on Armada and this seemed to surprise people. 

[Church14 2,495]

18 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I have a theory for why AFMK2s dropped out of the top: their “one of each” token suite and redirect dependence makes them fantastic prey for a Pryce strike, assuming your opponent lets you close.

It’s not that the ship’s only really redeeming quality is the Gallant Haven title?

 

Yeah Yeah Ackbar blah blah I prefer up to MC80 or down to TR90. 

[xero989 1,069]

Fleets that counter/are good against 2 ship:

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• External Racks (3)
• Aspiration (3)
= 129 Points

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Admiral Raddus (26)
• Lando Carissian (4)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• H9 Turbolasers (8)
• Admonition (8)
= 118 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 59 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 59 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Comms Net (2)
= 20 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 385

The 30 threatens the quasar and the ET corevets can get you to drop Aspiration top of turn 2 to block the ISD its is devastating as most 2 ships use Pryce on turn 2 if she is on the ISD if she on the quasar hold back and play defensively. a smart player will use her turn 1 if Pryce is on the ISD when they see Raddus, but you can still drop to keep the ISD from escaping or you could hold it for turn 3 when you can have the 30 threating the quasar and aspiration on the ISD.

CR90 Corvette B (39)
• General Rieekan (30)
• Tantive IV (3)
= 72 Points

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57)
• Yavaris (5)
= 62 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Toryn Farr (7)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
• Bright Hope (2)
= 35 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Leia Organa (3)
• Comms Net (2)
= 23 Points

Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Adar Tallon (10)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 79 Points

Squadrons:
• Gold Squadron (12)
• Dagger Squadron (15)
• Ten Numb (19)
• Jan Ors (19)
• 2 x YT-1300 (26)
• Norra Wexley (17)
• Keyan Farlander (20)
= 128 Points

Total Points: 399

With 14 hull of escorts and jans braces they will be hard pressed to get much out of an alpha strike, and if they try it your squadrons will hit them back twice  maybe have Ten Numb trigger 3 times and with Rieekan you will most likely get at least 1 Yavaris bombing run on the ISD and sometimes thats all it takes, make sure Yavaris and the Pelta have a squadron token as often as possible.

Imperial II (120)
• Admiral Sloane (24)
• Captain Brunson (5)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Avenger (5)
= 177 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Pursuant (2)
= 66 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Dengar (20)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Saber Squadron (12)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Black Squadron (9)
= 127 Points

Total points= 395

Okay so Sloan has to worry about getting hit by Mauler, but if you play a bit deffinsive to start once squadrons are in range you should have no problem killing them, and moving on to ships, focus on Mauler first to make you life easier, then start taking out the key pieces.

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Grand Admiral Thrawn (32)
• Captain Brunson (5)
• Ruthless Strategists (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
• Chimaera (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
= 177 Points

Gladiator II (62)
• Agent Kallus (3)
• Ruthless Strategists (4)
• External Racks (3)
• Demolisher (10)
= 82 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
• Dengar (20)
• Zertik Strom (15)
• 6 x TIE Bomber Squadron (54)
= 89 Points

Total Points: 398

This will do a number on the squadron wing and with IF you will get consistent damage from your ship to ship combat as well just have your bombers bomb ships while your ships flack everything to death, then move on to using your guns. Its a fun unique way of doing things and I have had success against 2 ship with it.

[DunaMoose 92]

How about outrunning everything outright? (TIE/in and RZ-1 squads included)

Name: I Always get a Speeding Ticket
Faction: Rebel
Commander: General Rieekan

Assault: Precision Strike
Defense: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation: Minefields

Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Adar Tallon (10)
• Engine Techs (8)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 88 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• General Rieekan (30)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Jaina's Light (2)
= 91 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 59 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 59 Points

Squadrons:
• Jan Ors (19)
• Luke Skywalker (20)
• Nym (21)
• Keyan Farlander (20)
• Norra Wexley (17)
= 97 Points

Total Points: 394

Edited March 28, 2019 by DunaMoose

[DunaMoose 92]

or this?

Name: The Little B-wing that Could
Faction: Rebel
Commander: General Dodonna

Assault: Precision Strike
Defense: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation: Superior Positions

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
• Foresight (8)
= 84 Points

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
• Admonition (8)
= 84 Points

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36)
• General Dodonna (20)
• Boarding Engineers (2)
• External Racks (3)
• Garel's Honor (4)
= 65 Points

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36)
• Boarding Engineers (2)
• External Racks (3)
= 41 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Flight Commander (3)
• Rapid Launch Bays (6)
= 27 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Flight Commander (3)
• Rapid Launch Bays (6)
= 27 Points

Squadrons:
• Keyan Farlander (20)
• Dagger Squadron (15)
• Norra Wexley (17)
• Ten Numb (19)
= 71 Points

Total Points: 399

Edited March 28, 2019 by DunaMoose

[AllWingsStandyingBy 4,661]

The crazy thing is that this is likely to be our meta until fall of next year.  And when the SSD drops, unless the ship itself becomes a meta-presence it'll probably just be a "rich get richer" scenario with Imp-Two-Ship having a few new upgrade toys to play with.  It's certainly not clear how the Rebels will start to perform better without getting any new toys (likely until 2020, if it all... but if the anticipated Wave 8 stuff is Clone Wars... well that might not have anything for Rebels).

[NewGandhi 172]

I'm curious, what impact the imperial two ships will have on worlds. It's been around for a while, so people there should be prepared to face one of the many variations. Perhaps the answer / counter lays in plain sight -it's just a few days away

[Truthiness 5,707]

I made a minor error while copying the data sheet for @geek19. The old link will take you to the spreadsheet I gave to geek to work on Worlds data. The link for Regionals data is now here . I'll edit the OP as well.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Truthiness

[EbonHawk 1,246]

On 3/26/2019 at 1:52 PM, IronNerd said:

Preferably nerfs for Aces rather than buffs for generics. Squadrons do not need to be more powerful.

Imp squads need the nerf not Rebels, they have far too many titles and cards that buff squads, with squads that already have the best synergy in the game. Rudor/Ciena/Dengar/Howlrunner/Mauler/Soontier etc etc

A Tie Ace Pryce ball can pretty much wipe anything out it's way, plus it has the movement officer which can proc the splash damage guy (mauler is it?) multiple times, Squall is like a free FCT, they have an equivalent to Adar in Jendon, and the Relay is better. 

Not saying it's unbeatable, I just beat a Tie ball tonight, but god the work you have to put in just to scrape buy, and even then I lost all my squads going for the win. 

IMHO: It very much feels like Imps getting a lotta love in recent waves, while Rebels seem to bear the brunt of a lot of the nerfings... Their squads just haven't seen the same power loss rebels have, and I would say Imp squads have been the premier of squads for a good couple waves now.

I am looking forward to the coming release of Reb in the Rim, hopefully some of the issues will be addressed 

[DunaMoose 92]

14 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Imp squads need the nerf not Rebels, they have far too many titles and cards that buff squads, with squads that already have the best synergy in the game. Rudor/Ciena/Dengar/Howlrunner/Mauler/Soontier etc etc

A Tie Ace Pryce ball can pretty much wipe anything out it's way, plus it has the movement officer which can proc the splash damage guy (mauler is it?) multiple times, Squall is like a free FCT, they have an equivalent to Adar in Jendon, and the Relay is better. 

Not saying it's unbeatable, I just beat a Tie ball tonight, but god the work you have to put in just to scrape buy, and even then I lost all my squads going for the win. 

IMHO: It very much feels like Imps getting a lotta love in recent waves, while Rebels seem to bear the brunt of a lot of the nerfings... Their squads just haven't seen the same power loss rebels have, and I would say Imp squads have been the premier of squads for a good couple waves now.

I am looking forward to the coming release of Reb in the Rim, hopefully some of the issues will be addressed 

To me the Reb squads are too expensive and their aces are extortion...

Edit: Ok, VCX-100s, YT-2400s, Lancers, Scurrgs, A-wings, Z-95s, and E-wings are the only good Reb squads...(as generics)

Edited March 31, 2019 by DunaMoose

[Church14 2,495]

2 hours ago, DunaMoose said:

To me the Reb squads are too expensive and their aces are extortion...

Taking a stab at it, it seems like scatter was undervalued when designing squads. 

 

Though that isn’t even fair. It is more that some impressive anti-squad ship upgrades have finally come along and scatter aces are much better off against flak.

[Tokra 2,147]

7 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Imp squads need the nerf not Rebels, they have far too many titles and cards that buff squads, with squads that already have the best synergy in the game. Rudor/Ciena/Dengar/Howlrunner/Mauler/Soontier etc etc

A Tie Ace Pryce ball can pretty much wipe anything out it's way, plus it has the movement officer which can proc the splash damage guy (mauler is it?) multiple times, Squall is like a free FCT, they have an equivalent to Adar in Jendon, and the Relay is better. 

Not saying it's unbeatable, I just beat a Tie ball tonight, but god the work you have to put in just to scrape buy, and even then I lost all my squads going for the win. 

IMHO: It very much feels like Imps getting a lotta love in recent waves, while Rebels seem to bear the brunt of a lot of the nerfings... Their squads just haven't seen the same power loss rebels have, and I would say Imp squads have been the premier of squads for a good couple waves now.

I am looking forward to the coming release of Reb in the Rim, hopefully some of the issues will be addressed 

Adar tallon? Yavaris? toryn far? Gallant haven? Ten numb? Dutch? Biggs?

Imperials might have the cheaper squadrons, but in kind of synergy and support the rebells have more. The rebels just need ships for it, while to big imperial synergy is coming from squadrons.

The imperials have the good scatter against ships. So they can stay in the flak a bit better, unless they in two flak arcs.

[EbonHawk 1,246]

1 hour ago, Tokra said:

Adar tallon? Yavaris? toryn far? Gallant haven? Ten numb? Dutch? Biggs?

Imperials might have the cheaper squadrons, but in kind of synergy and support the rebells have more. The rebels just need ships for it, while to big imperial synergy is coming from squadrons.

The imperials have the good scatter against ships. So they can stay in the flak a bit better, unless they in two flak arcs.

Tallon - Jendon

Gallant Haven, Yavaris all nerfed.... threat range unequal to imps

Ten Numb - Speed 2 and rarely scores his hit, meanwhile Mauler can splash damage you twice per turn all game even if engaged without having to rely on Toryn (much much better)

and Dutch and Biggs are nice yes, but I stick to my OP, Imps just have better squads and synergy atm plus nearly every Rebel Gimmick has been given to the Imps in unique cards or just new general cards... AKA Jendon, Mauler, Squall, Flechettes being basically Dutch 

 

Don't get me wrong I love the game, and love playing it, can't wait for the new release but Imps Rn are in a similar power creep to how Rebels were under original Rieekan...

 

[EbonHawk 1,246]

6 hours ago, Church14 said:

Taking a stab at it, it seems like scatter was undervalued when designing squads. 

 

Though that isn’t even fair. It is more that some impressive anti-squad ship upgrades have finally come along and scatter aces are much better off against flak.

I agree, trouble is I find is flak is usually it doesn't matter, unless you brought Ordnance Pods or it's a dedicated ship like a GR-75 you just simply wont be using Flak if you're in a ship battle. 

and even then we have to assume the player has managed to not only get 1 squadron in double arc of a ship but also hope a friendly squad is around to finish it off, otherwise 1 scatter and brace will be spent max, and the scatter comes back next turn... You have to be sure really of 3 hits going into that squadron.... and then after that if your squadron did get a hit off it gets anything from counter 2-4 back...

If anything could use a 2.0, imo it would be squads

 

[Rimsen 1,427]

2 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Tallon - Jendon

Gallant Haven, Yavaris all nerfed.... threat range unequal to imps

Ten Numb - Speed 2 and rarely scores his hit, meanwhile Mauler can splash damage you twice per turn all game even if engaged without having to rely on Toryn (much much better)

and Dutch and Biggs are nice yes, but I stick to my OP, Imps just have better squads and synergy atm plus nearly every Rebel Gimmick has been given to the Imps in unique cards or just new general cards... AKA Jendon, Mauler, Squall, Flechettes being basically Dutch 

 

Don't get me wrong I love the game, and love playing it, can't wait for the new release but Imps Rn are in a similar power creep to how Rebels were under original Rieekan...

 

How do you splash twice in 1 turn with Mauler?!

Also, you are so keen on Imp sauad synergy. Guess what happens with the synergy if a crucial squad falls out? All falls apart....

So it's far from catastrophic... Especially that for 2 years Riekan aces dominated the meta...

[Chrpica 8]

1 hour ago, Rimsen said:

How do you splash twice in 1 turn with Mauler?!

Dengar has Intel which makes anything at range 1 have Heavy, so Mauler can move while engaged.

Fighter Control Teams activates, letting it move for splash 1. When it's activated it moves again, and there's splash 2 plus a shot. 

My guess is if they do anything they'll errata the effects to squads that haven't been activated, but to get double taps off you do need to build for it, so I'm alright with it (even though it bashed me at Worlds). 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Chrpica
Updated for accuracy.

[Ginkapo 9,382]

3 minutes ago, Chrpica said:

Dengar has Intel which makes anything at range 1 have Heavy, so Mauler isn't engaged.

Still engaged

[Chrpica 8]

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

Still engaged

Ah, you're right. They're just able to move with heavy, so the double tap only works on an activation Mauler moves in. Derp moment.