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Opinion: Deltas are being underrated

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16 minutes ago, Arc170Chris said:

still not quite clear on this. if a jedi does a red maneuver, can it still use a force token for a reposition before the stress token is applied? 

No, step two of a fully executed maneuver is Check Difficulty where stress tokens are either assigned or removed. Finely-tuned controls requires you to fully execute a maneuver before performing a boost or barrel roll action. If you executed a red, yous gots a stress so yous no dos an action.

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5 hours ago, Burius1981 said:

My 2 cents on it is this:

When I've run the D7 without a config I am trying to leverage the pilot ability or Battle Meditation.  So long as I don't make a bone head move that puts them in a bad spot they tend to stick around for most of the game and while I inevitably push a little damage out of them that is secondary to their purpose for me.  They supporting other ships and by sticking around for multiple rounds I get my value out of them.

7B and CLT are offensive upgrades that, for me, take the D7 from the support role to an offense or hybrid offensive/support role.  I like CLT more, but thus far 7B is better since it lets you fly on the edge of the fight and still get value while also getting two shields for a bit of blank green dice insurance.  I play a lot of Fenn Rau with Predator, I spend a lot of time lining up bullseye shots at all ranges.  CLT is pretty good but you may have to spend more Force than you want to that turn to get the bullseye.  Jedi strongly depend on smart Force management to stay effective, and CLT puts direct and indirect pressure on your Force pool from modifying the dice and boosting/barrel rolling with FTC to line it up.  Running 7B isn't guaranteed value though, they are still "ace" style ships that can get melted if you let an opponent get a nice kill box on them.

Anakin, Obiwan, and Mace seem pretty great with CLT, if a little fragile.  Anakin and Mace have "selfish" abilities so you don't need to worry as much about managing their Force(esp Mace).  I have found myself using Obiwan's ability on others pretty frequently though.  If a friendly ship can spend a Focus to block two or more hits while defending, or is going to be shot multiple times, it has generally been a good call to have Obiwan help them out.  It is also notable that all three of them have three Force charges.

The other unique Jedi all have abilities that are more support oriented and have lower Force pools to boot.  CLT on them is a tougher call for me because of the extra drain it will cause trying to line up those Bullseye shots.

Thanks for the input mate !!!

I was afraid that 7B would be an (expensive) auto-include for Deltas but your message erased my fears 👍

 

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In an all-Delta list 7B is really a must. Then your initiative levels suffers, as you're able to field a 3,4,5 or 3,4,4 list tops. Overall, Deltas and 7B might be a tad cheaper.

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7 minutes ago, rhetor said:

In an all-Delta list 7B is really a must. Then your initiative levels suffers, as you're able to field a 3,4,5 or 3,4,4 list tops. Overall, Deltas and 7B might be a tad cheaper.

I'm not sure that every ship needs its price optimized for all-alike lists.

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54 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I'm not sure that every ship needs its price optimized for all-alike lists.

I’ve had a bunch of fun in mixed squads. Honestly I’ve been pleasantly surprised. Even the generic Jedi Knight leading a quartet of generic arcs and torrents, with Battle Meditation?

Its not half bad.

Two 7b’s and an Arc, or two and two torrents can do work. Two CLT with two Arcs as well. Right now I’m contemplating a Super Mace with Saeese and a named Arc. The layers of tricks seem effective, and I think it would be near unblockable. Do you know what Sense on Saeese with Supernatural Mace can do? I’ll give you a hint, be anywhere.

It may not be competitive (I think it actually may be), but it seems like a lot of fun.

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1 hour ago, millertime059 said:

I’ve had a bunch of fun in mixed squads. Honestly I’ve been pleasantly surprised. Even the generic Jedi Knight leading a quartet of generic arcs and torrents, with Battle Meditation?

Its not half bad.

Two 7b’s and an Arc, or two and two torrents can do work. Two CLT with two Arcs as well. Right now I’m contemplating a Super Mace with Saeese and a named Arc. The layers of tricks seem effective, and I think it would be near unblockable. Do you know what Sense on Saeese with Supernatural Mace can do? I’ll give you a hint, be anywhere.

It may not be competitive (I think it actually may be), but it seems like a lot of fun.

I actually never thought to put SNR on Mace: you can boost right into a sloop and regen your spent force charge...

 

I have put R4-P17 on him, which allows you to red maneuver, evade, then regen the force charge because they trigger simultaneously, so you can evade before getting the Mace charge.

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23 minutes ago, SavouryRain said:

I actually never thought to put SNR on Mace: you can boost right into a sloop and regen your spent force charge...

 

I have put R4-P17 on him, which allows you to red maneuver, evade, then regen the force charge because they trigger simultaneously, so you can evade before getting the Mace charge.

I’m planning on trying it tonight. And that’s the mace build. 7b, SNR, R4-p17. Because the option to evade them regent force, or to SNR then regen the spent force, then use a charge to take an action? Super good.

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On 3/29/2019 at 9:20 PM, prauxim said:

Tonight I played

JK/CLT/Sense
JK/CLT/Sense
JK/CLT/Heightened Perception
Ahsoka/CLT/R4-P17 (action on stress)

The plan was to use sense to guarantee blocks and get lost of bullseyes. Game was against Vader/Vermial/Countdown/Wampa. Worked great, got about 50% bullseye rate and blocked like crazy.

Heightened Perception did give me +1 shot on that ship before he ate it, and I did like P17, but dunno, may drop em and do 4x R4, blue hards out of red moves would have done a lot of work too.

Odd how this post seems to have gotten ignored. So looking at dropping the extra action economy and Init boost? 4x R4 does turn the Delta 7's dials into a dream so I can see why.

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So I tried Super 7b Mace. He is very good. Just as unblockable as predicted, and was able to hit like a truck. Flew him on his own while Saeese and Sinker ran up the other side. Took on both B-wing aces solo no problem. The rest of my list pinned the rest.

Definitely using again, very fun and very effective. Especially when moving last.

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7 hours ago, millertime059 said:

I’m planning on trying it tonight. And that’s the mace build. 7b, SNR, R4-p17. Because the option to evade them regent force, or to SNR then regen the spent force, then use a charge to take an action? Super good.

How are you planning to evade before the regen trigger other than with p17?

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8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

How are you planning to evade before the regen trigger other than with p17?

Simple, don’t. Not getting shot is a much better plan. The two B-wings got a combined one shot, at range 3, at Mace all game. 

But if I needed to I would use P17 to queue an action then queue Mace’s ability. In practice I found the two turns I used his ability were one where I used SNR to BR to avoid a block and get behind a ship and one where I used two force the turn before (one reposition one dice mod). So I ended full force but with no shots incoming. At which point I  used P17 to take a target lock instead.

He feels like a legit 83 point terror. Granted his difficulty would be against things like 4 Resistance 5’s. That a list I see being particularly hard. Otherwise use Saeese and Sense to avoid high init ships early and try and eliminate them first. It may seem risky to spend 83 points on an I4 ship, but I think he can be worth it.

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True. However that’s where the rest of the list comes in. I flew him with Sinker with Commander Cody. But Wolffe with VTG May be better, as he is a more self contained threat. And Sense is for when I face higher I. It’s all theoretical on that, but having the ability to see where the big threat I5 or 6 is going may be critical. But it’s like the I4 defenders, E-wings or IG-88’s. Lots of points, and flying them when you don’t have initiative advantage requires you to approach differently.

Its viable for sure, how big a problem Resistance aces are is the big question. It’s also a powerful list, but one that seems low floor high ceiling type in an I5 meta.

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3 hours ago, millertime059 said:

True. However that’s where the rest of the list comes in. I flew him with Sinker with Commander Cody. But Wolffe with VTG May be better, as he is a more self contained threat. And Sense is for when I face higher I. It’s all theoretical on that, but having the ability to see where the big threat I5 or 6 is going may be critical. But it’s like the I4 defenders, E-wings or IG-88’s. Lots of points, and flying them when you don’t have initiative advantage requires you to approach differently.

Its viable for sure, how big a problem Resistance aces are is the big question. It’s also a powerful list, but one that seems low floor high ceiling type in an I5 meta.

If you don't mind me asking, but I'm curious what your full list was?

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you could go with cody on wolffe, then stick a synched console on him and mace. theyre both I4 so wolffe can shoot first and be handing out strain and a target lock.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, millertime059 said:

True. However that’s where the rest of the list comes in. I flew him with Sinker with Commander Cody. But Wolffe with VTG May be better, as he is a more self contained threat. And Sense is for when I face higher I. It’s all theoretical on that, but having the ability to see where the big threat I5 or 6 is going may be critical. But it’s like the I4 defenders, E-wings or IG-88’s. Lots of points, and flying them when you don’t have initiative advantage requires you to approach differently.

Its viable for sure, how big a problem Resistance aces are is the big question. It’s also a powerful list, but one that seems low floor high ceiling type in an I5 meta.

I'll be curious to see how it continues to work as I think it makes him crazy maneuverable (and probably a ton of fun) and made your game against the lower init list much easier.   My hesitation in using it myself is that it takes something he is already very good at puts more investment into making him elite at that for a %30 increase in cost, a good way to a VT (speaking of underrated ships!) with just a small amount of help in the area of weakness.  It does help some to be more unpredictable against higher pilot skill for sure.    When I used him, I ran him with just DeltaB and didn't lose him to lower initiative ships.   Did you also include a bid to help him out? (Since then the investment becomes a bit more but you lock up those points, too).

Edited by AlexW

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I've been flying Anakin and the republic since launch and so far, the Aethersprite is most impressive; especially with 7b. 

It's got a dial similar to the tie interceptor, the body of an X-Wing, an arguably better form of autothrusters in fine-tuned controls, and has force tokens for extra modifications. It can also take regen.

It can operate somewhat independently and can cover a crazy amount of room with 5 straight into Boost + Barrell Roll. Use it as a flanker and take advantage of its specialities. It's basically the fattest Tie Interceptor in the game.

I've been having a lot of fun with Anakin. I like to run him as an ultra fast flanker, who's sole job is to get behind them and start shooting. He's highly effective at that, but you need to be able to trade effectively with his wingmates in order to reach his full potential. The 3 Force and Initiative 6 are why you take him; his ability is mostly irrelevant. 

Mace Windu is a standout as well, solely due to the chasis and his 3 force tokens. I find myself using fine-tuned controls almost every single turn, so having two force leftover after that for mods compared to one is critical. 

The aces with 3 force tokens are leveraging the chassis of the Aethersprite; making use of the maneuverability and plentiful mods. The aces with 2 force tokens need to be leashed to some buddies in order to get their full value. As such, I'm not a big fan of the rest of the pilots. 

When it comes to flying in a formation to give your wingmates buffs, I simply think that Empire and Rebels can do it better. In my experience trying "cute" formations with the other named Jedi, Sinker, and others is just asking to be put down hard by one of the above factions doing the same. You're not utilising the best aspects of the chasis by locking it in a box or loose formation. It's an interceptor first, all other things second.

The Delta 7 needs to come down in price, but I don't think its in a bad place at the moment. I think people aren't playing them like proper interceptors, so that might be why it's so underrated at the moment. I really don't get why they gave them so many "helping" abilities on such a speedy chassis.

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The Delta 7 is such a good ship, is already winning tournaments, and yet has a 7 page thread of people arguing it needs to come down in price...

Where's my 18 point Vultures? CIS have yet to make a top cut.

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4 hours ago, Dwalk123 said:

If you don't mind me asking, but I'm curious what your full list was?

Super 7b P17 Mace

R4 Sense CLT Saeese

Cody on Sinker

And a 2 point bid because a single copy of Synched Console seemed worse than a bid, and you don’t need much of a bid at I4 to pick.

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32 minutes ago, svelok said:

The Delta 7 is such a good ship, is already winning tournaments, and yet has a 7 page thread of people arguing it needs to come down in price...

Did you even read the title of this thread, or the contents of most of the posts? ;)  

Also, as far as tournaments it is winning, are you talking about local or hyperspace?  It hasn't won a hyperspace trial yet that I could find.  Anakin showed up a lot in the top cut in AU, but didn't end up winning (despite that he was brought by a few of the best players in the world).    

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15 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Odd how this post seems to have gotten ignored. So looking at dropping the extra action economy and Init boost? 4x R4 does turn the Delta 7's dials into a dream so I can see why.

Yeah, it's effectively action econ either way. I wasn't that hot on R2 initially since they don't stress for repo but the value is pretty clear once you get it on the table. I think 4x R2 gives more value long term but SN or P17+HP are more likely to likely to frontload their value, which could be crucial, so tough call.

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56 minutes ago, svelok said:

Where's my 18 point Vultures? CIS have yet to make a top cut.

 

24 minutes ago, Jarval said:

They made the final table of the Cedar Rapids Hyperspace Trial.

And the final table at the Adepticon Hyperspace trial.

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