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prauxim

Opinion: Deltas are being underrated

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10 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

A nice idea might be a direct equivalent to hate - a way to refill those force charges. Rather than recovering force charge in conflicts, Jedi should be seeking serenity.... so something which lets them recover any number of Icon force on a trigger - maybe instead of attacking, or an action (would combo nicely with battle meditation!). 

 

That's pretty much been my thought, something like "Mindfulness". You may skip the Perform Action step of the Activation Phase. If you do, recharge [1, 2, whatever] Force charges.

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Not likely, but a big cross faction Jedi upgrade pack with:

  • Peace - cancel hit to recover force (mentioned above)
  • Knowledge - some form of dial reveal different than sense somehow
  • Serenity - spend force to repair pilot conditions
  • Harmony - during the end phase you may transfer force to another force user with fewer force tokens
    • Hate competitor
  • There is no Death; there is the Force - some transfer of force on death (mentioned above)

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I don't know if including a card like hate would be too similar to Luke for Jedi's but if not what about:

"After you defend if you didn't take any damage and the attacker rolled 2 or more hits you may recover 1 Force." 

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45 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

I don't know if including a card like hate would be too similar to Luke for Jedi's but if not what about:

"After you defend if you didn't take any damage and the attacker rolled 2 or more hits you may recover 1 Force." 

That's not a bad idea, though I'd probably make it something along the lines of:

"After you defend, if the attack missed, recover 1 Force if the attack roll contained a hit result, or 2 Force if it contained a critical hit result."

Means you get more Force for avoiding a shot that may have crippled you. You could make it so you regen a Force per hit cancelled, but that'd get pricey, I think (scaled to agility?).

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9 minutes ago, Stryker359 said:

That's not a bad idea, though I'd probably make it something along the lines of:

"After you defend, if the attack missed, recover 1 Force if the attack roll contained a hit result, or 2 Force if it contained a critical hit result."

Means you get more Force for avoiding a shot that may have crippled you. You could make it so you regen a Force per hit cancelled, but that'd get pricey, I think (scaled to agility?).

Now think how good that would be on Obi Wan or Luminara.

Obi Wan basically would state ‘when you attack or defend, turn all focus results to evade results, and refill your force pool’

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1 hour ago, millertime059 said:

Now think how good that would be on Obi Wan or Luminara.

Obi Wan basically would state ‘when you attack or defend, turn all focus results to evade results, and refill your force pool’

Indeed. This is actually why I don't think that ability would be a good idea (or would need to cost a lot). It would be to large of a momentum shift. Your attack misses and I get Force.

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Posted (edited)

Tonight I played

JK/CLT/Sense
JK/CLT/Sense
JK/CLT/Heightened Perception
Ahsoka/CLT/R4-P17 (action on stress)

The plan was to use sense to guarantee blocks and get lost of bullseyes. Game was against Vader/Vermial/Countdown/Wampa. Worked great, got about 50% bullseye rate and blocked like crazy.

Heightened Perception did give me +1 shot on that ship before he ate it, and I did like P17, but dunno, may drop em and do 4x R4, blue hards out of red moves would have done a lot of work too.

Edited by prauxim

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7 hours ago, millertime059 said:

Now think how good that would be on Obi Wan or Luminara.

Obi Wan basically would state ‘when you attack or defend, turn all focus results to evade results, and refill your force pool’

Yeah that's why in my idea I put in that the attacker has to have 2 hits. This allows the opponent to play with your force management and increases strategy in regards to when to shoot and not just to go for pot shots. 

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On 3/27/2019 at 7:35 PM, Ryuneke said:

Does anyone of you put Ashoka on the table? With a build in stress free PTL she looks awesome on paper. I want to fly her with Anakin and Wolffe. 

I tried Ashoka (DB7, R4 & stealth device) with x2 SSV with 7th Fleet gunners. 

Wasnt too bad. Some ‘less than optimal’ flying in my part separated Ashoka from the ARCs so her ability became less useful. That’s the tricky bit, the Jedi feel like they want to go fast and flank but the ARCs aren’t agile or quick enough dials wise to keep pace. 

Ashoka performed pretty well though and was reasonably survivable.

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57 minutes ago, Tam Palso said:

I tried Ashoka (DB7, R4 & stealth device) with x2 SSV with 7th Fleet gunners. 

Wasnt too bad. Some ‘less than optimal’ flying in my part separated Ashoka from the ARCs so her ability became less useful. That’s the tricky bit, the Jedi feel like they want to go fast and flank but the ARCs aren’t agile or quick enough dials wise to keep pace. 

Ashoka performed pretty well though and was reasonably survivable.

Why don’t you use her ability only for herself? She can Focus/Lock and even focus/evade (by spending 2 force). I would “coordinate” other ships only if it’s absolutely necessary.

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11 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

Why don’t you use her ability only for herself? She can Focus/Lock and even focus/evade (by spending 2 force). I would “coordinate” other ships only if it’s absolutely necessary.

That’s actually how I ended up using her, although that wasn’t the original game plan. 

She’s pretty decent overall though: not one to discount! 

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2 hours ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

I faced Ahsoka with other I3 ships and she absolutely destroyed me. Just following me around, fully modified shots every turn. Brutal.

What were you flying and what were Ahsoka's escorts?? I wanna try Ahsoka with friends as a list. 

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I've ran Obiwan with 7B, Luminara, and two 104th Batalion ARC-170s a few times.

I've won three games with it, two of them versus players that have made cuts in 60+ player tournaments with lists they have been practicing, though they each made a serious mistake that I capitalized on to swing the game my way hard.  The third game was against a newer player running a version of Yions that had 4 ships with some extra upgrades.

I've tried Obiwan with CLT and 7B now, I agree with what seems to be the general consensus that 7B is far and away better.  CLT was fun, but in order to trigger it I had to put the Jedi in positions that were difficult to extricate themselves from on the following turns.  In general, Obi was very effective and I got a fair amount of use out of his ability for himself and other ships.  When he had full Force I used his ability a couple of times to let an ARC spend it's Focus defensively to block crits from getting through shields while also having a Focus for their offense.

Luminara is great support, all three games her ability saved me some damage.  Saving Obi from crits that would trigger Fuel Leak and kill him in one match was massive, and forcing my opponents to make hard decisions about spending a Focus for offense when my ARCs haven't shot yet always felt good.

I'm sure the list is solid, but I don't know if it is good enough to make a cut yet.  The ARCs have done the majority of the work, with the Jedi mostly in a supporting role because all three opponents decided that Obi and Lumi were priority targets and I had to fly them conservatively to keep the heat off of them.  I suspect that that decision is lose-lose.  If an opponent decided to try and Focus down the ARCs first, then the Jedi are free to flank and cause a lot of havoc while also preserving their health for late game.

More matches are required to feel the list out further.

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Posted (edited)

I haven't had too much trouble with CLT on Obi or Ani. Sure, having tried both 7b and CLT on them, I've determined that 7b is parsecs better. I like the consistency CLT provides over 7b though.

The trick I've found for using CLT is to make sure that the rest of your list is scary enough to allow the Jedi the room necessary to get the bullseye without exposing themselves.

 

Edited by SavouryRain

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Do Aethersprites really underperform when not with 7B ?

i was thinking that a shield upgrade could add survavibility while  keeping their 3 green dices: has anyone tried it ?

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Toniwan said:

Do Aethersprites really underperform when not with 7B ?

i was thinking that a shield upgrade could add survavibility while  keeping their 3 green dices: has anyone tried it ?

Problem is that CLT takes both the mod and config slot, so you are running one without a config at that point.

As for CLT, I’ve found it quite good. But I’ve also been able to consistently get the bullseye arc when needed.

Edited by millertime059

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I flew two last week with only R4 Astromechs on them (technically, one also had a Spare Parts Canister, but I never had a good opportunity to deploy it).  They seemed pretty decent (as well as loads of fun) even just like that, and I look forward to trying them out with their configs or other upgrades, too.

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I just played 2 games with:

Anakin: R4 astro, 7B

Saesee Tiin: R4 Astro, CLT

Sinker: 7th fleet gunner, synched console.

The deltas were great fun to play, particularly Saesee - hes a beast! his ability really stood out and it made lining up the bulleye a lot easier.

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15 hours ago, ccjacks3 said:

What were you flying and what were Ahsoka's escorts?? I wanna try Ahsoka with friends as a list. 

I was flying Anakin with 2 Squad Seven Vets. Sadly they are I3 are my opponent was moving last. Meaning Ahsoka could just follow them around and absolutely kill them. 

His other two ships were Anakin and (I think) Luminara.

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15 hours ago, Toniwan said:

Do Aethersprites really underperform when not with 7B ?

i was thinking that a shield upgrade could add survavibility while  keeping their 3 green dices: has anyone tried it ?

My 2 cents on it is this:

When I've run the D7 without a config I am trying to leverage the pilot ability or Battle Meditation.  So long as I don't make a bone head move that puts them in a bad spot they tend to stick around for most of the game and while I inevitably push a little damage out of them that is secondary to their purpose for me.  They supporting other ships and by sticking around for multiple rounds I get my value out of them.

7B and CLT are offensive upgrades that, for me, take the D7 from the support role to an offense or hybrid offensive/support role.  I like CLT more, but thus far 7B is better since it lets you fly on the edge of the fight and still get value while also getting two shields for a bit of blank green dice insurance.  I play a lot of Fenn Rau with Predator, I spend a lot of time lining up bullseye shots at all ranges.  CLT is pretty good but you may have to spend more Force than you want to that turn to get the bullseye.  Jedi strongly depend on smart Force management to stay effective, and CLT puts direct and indirect pressure on your Force pool from modifying the dice and boosting/barrel rolling with FTC to line it up.  Running 7B isn't guaranteed value though, they are still "ace" style ships that can get melted if you let an opponent get a nice kill box on them.

Anakin, Obiwan, and Mace seem pretty great with CLT, if a little fragile.  Anakin and Mace have "selfish" abilities so you don't need to worry as much about managing their Force(esp Mace).  I have found myself using Obiwan's ability on others pretty frequently though.  If a friendly ship can spend a Focus to block two or more hits while defending, or is going to be shot multiple times, it has generally been a good call to have Obiwan help them out.  It is also notable that all three of them have three Force charges.

The other unique Jedi all have abilities that are more support oriented and have lower Force pools to boot.  CLT on them is a tougher call for me because of the extra drain it will cause trying to line up those Bullseye shots.

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Ok, now that I've played them, I'll admit that I underrated them overall!     I think it's very easy to look at them in a vacuum and determine they are over-costed, but I've had a few games with republic lists now (one list did not work at all but the second was much stronger).   While all lists work better as a whole, I think that Jedi (generally) are going to look better or worse based on the list they are in. 

I think this goes for the title as well.   I see a ton of discussion about CLT vs. DeltaB and which is the "right" choice either on certain pilots or just which is more efficient, but create a list where you are expecting your Jedi to use those force tokens to support the rest of the list and CLT is a horrible choice.   In some cases, the right answer is no title.    I think that all of that makes for some very interesting list building choices but I also think it is what is generating some disagreement over the value of the Jedi.

 

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1 minute ago, AlexW said:

Ok, now that I've played them, I'll admit that I underrated them overall!     I think it's very easy to look at them in a vacuum and determine they are over-costed, but I've had a few games with republic lists now (one list did not work at all but the second was much stronger).   While all lists work better as a whole, I think that Jedi (generally) are going to look better or worse based on the list they are in. 

I think this goes for the title as well.   I see a ton of discussion about CLT vs. DeltaB and which is the "right" choice either on certain pilots or just which is more efficient, but create a list where you are expecting your Jedi to use those force tokens to support the rest of the list and CLT is a horrible choice.   In some cases, the right answer is no title.    I think that all of that makes for some very interesting list building choices but I also think it is what is generating some disagreement over the value of the Jedi.

 

What lists did you like?

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44 minutes ago, ccjacks3 said:

What lists did you like?

I ran 2 104ths with 7th Gunner, Obi-Wan, and a Gold Squadron Trooper (this was a list that didn't work well for me -- that may have been me).

The list ran that I really liked was Obi-Wan, (CLT) Mace (B), Wolff, Gold Trooper.

Obi-wan, even though upgraded very similarly, performed significantly better in the second list.

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