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prauxim

Opinion: Deltas are being underrated

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I'm testing this:

Obiwan: CLT

Luminara: CLT

2x 104th ARCs.

195

The ARCs are the side of beef and fairly punchy.  Obi and Lumi stay close enough to support each other but probably not in formation, Lumi's ability is obvious, but Obi can help Lumi out when she lands a bullseye shot by renewing her Focus.

I tried it last night, I flew it poorly which is to be expected because it is the first time I've put this faction on the table.  Still ended up doing alright and convinced me that it is worth further study.

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2 minutes ago, Ryuneke said:

Does anyone of you put Ashoka on the table? With a build in stress free PTL she looks awesome on paper. I want to fly her with Anakin and Wolffe. 

A buddy of mine ran her with Battle Meditation along side two ARCs and two Torrents.  All she really did was stay back in range two of a spread out formation and coordinate them Focus or Target Locks, which was pretty darned effective.

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3 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

Does anyone of you put Ashoka on the table? With a build in stress free PTL she looks awesome on paper. I want to fly her with Anakin and Wolffe. 

She's really good. Running her with sinker and two dedicated torrents. She runs so short on force so quickly tho.

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6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

She's really good. Running her with sinker and two dedicated torrents. She runs so short on force so quickly tho.

I wouldn’t use her ability for wingman’s, I guess. With the 7b title she might be a good brawler because she can do some blocking and hit pretty hard with Focus+Tl. Keeping her in the fight is pretty easy without getting stress tokens that much.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

Does anyone of you put Ashoka on the table? With a build in stress free PTL she looks awesome on paper. I want to fly her with Anakin and Wolffe. 

She's definitely one of the better Delta-7 pilots, but I find Mace is just superior for exactly the same cost (with 7B of course). 

Edited by CRCL

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36 minutes ago, CRCL said:

She's definitely one of the better Delta-7 pilots, but I find Mace is just superior for exactly the same cost (with 7B of course). 

Why? 

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40 minutes ago, Ryuneke said:

Why? 

With the Delta-7B config, they're both exactly the same cost. Mace's Initiative 4 isn't as sexy as 5 or 6, but it does put you ahead of most the generics in the game, allowing him to act as an ace against lower Initiative ships. Against higher Initiative stuff, his pilot ability is really solid. Much like a TIE Defender it's difficult to outmanoeuvre him as he's perfectly happy to just K-turn or S-Loop into an attack position. The fact that the Delta-7 has 4 different flip options means you can usually put him in an annoying spot when you turn around.

Having 3 force to Ahsoka's 2 also means he can pretty much match her for 'action' efficiency. Ahsoka wins out when you're running on fumes with your 1 regenerated force a turn, but Mace always has the option to flip, gain some space, and regen another token. Mace’s strength is he doesn’t have to disengage as often as the other Jedi pilots. He can often commit to an attack, spend a bunch of force, then K-turn/S-Loop into a safe position and be back in the fight fully charged.

That's not to say that Ahsoka is bad, just that I've found I prefer Mace for the same cost. Ahsoka is very good if you can get her on a flank and just do an 'inquisitor' every turn (1-bank, Focus + TL, and hammer the opponent with 3/4-dice double modded). Her ability to pass an action can also occasionally be very important.

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The fact that you disagree probably implies these are good designs. Bariss notwithstanding, the I3-4 Aethersprite aces all seem like really solid choices, clearly differentiated, at a very similar cost. I love that you can build them in so many different ways, too. The Inquisitors and Seventh Sister are fun, sure, but they're basically limited to taking FCS and/or Concs. With Deltas there are so many options. Sense, Battle Meditation, 7B, Laser Targeting, R2, R3, R4, R4-P17, Afterburners, Synched Console are all valid choices.

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15 hours ago, prauxim said:

Is there an all-delta BM list that makes sense then? Named + 3 JKs?

3 7b Generics with Meditation sounds interesting. The first one co-ordinates the other two, they both perform a co-ordinate each in turn and you've turned that one initial action into four. 

three x-wing analogues with 6 actions across the squad per turn that you can pass from ship to ship very easily sounds like something which has potential. 

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8 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

3 7b Generics with Meditation sounds interesting. The first one co-ordinates the other two, they both perform a co-ordinate each in turn and you've turned that one initial action into four. 

three x-wing analogues with 6 actions across the squad per turn that you can pass from ship to ship very easily sounds like something which has potential. 

I thought of that initially too, but is it worth it? It's basically three I3 X-Wings going into battle with focus and lock, at the same cost as four I3 X-Wings with only focus. I think Battle Meditation definitely has utility, but I'm doubtful that it's useful en masse. That Jedi Knight would probably be better off hanging back, coordinating a couple of 104ths. How about this?

Jedi Knight

  • Battle Meditation

104th Battalion Pilot

  • Seventh Fleet Gunner

104th Battalion Pilot

  • Seventh Fleet Gunner

Gold Squadron Trooper

Gold Squadron Trooper

200 points

Looks like it would be pretty tough and hit very hard.

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49 minutes ago, Okapi said:

The fact that you disagree probably implies these are good designs. Bariss notwithstanding, the I3-4 Aethersprite aces all seem like really solid choices, clearly differentiated, at a very similar cost. I love that you can build them in so many different ways, too. The Inquisitors and Seventh Sister are fun, sure, but they're basically limited to taking FCS and/or Concs. With Deltas there are so many options. Sense, Battle Meditation, 7B, Laser Targeting, R2, R3, R4, R4-P17, Afterburners, Synched Console are all valid choices.

I don't know if I'd got that far. There's a few choices to be made, but I find I always default back to the same upgrades on the Jedi.

I think the force slot is pretty weak for the Jedi pilots. Really Hate is the only good Force power available atm, and that's only for 3 factions. None of the Force powers stand out as particularly good for their cost. I don't mind Heightened Perception on Mace, but I can usually find a better use for those 3pts somewhere else in my list. The problem with most of the force powers is they have 2 inherent costs. They have their regular cost, but then most of them also cost a force token, which is already useful. You end up paying a heap of points to use your force tokens (already a precious resource) in a niche way. It might be OK if those abilities were really powerful (like Supernatural Reflexes), but most of them are pretty weak, and the force token already inherently does something powerful. This is why Hate is so good, it gives you more force tokens for no real cost and shores up a weakness (being focus-fired down).

The Calibrated Laser Targeting Config is pretty bad, while the Delta-7B Config is pretty much auto-include IMO. The PS3/4 pilots will struggle to get bullseye on targets, which would be fine if CLT was nice and cheap, but 4/6pts is a joke. The PS5/6 aces have an easier time getting bullseye, but again 8/10pts is pretty steep, and generally that’s not how higher PS aces like to play. They prefer to take shots out the edge of their arc so they have abort lines. To make matters worse, it eats up your mod slot, which hurts Anakin specifically.

Similarly the R2 Astromech is the clear winner in the astromech slot (Mace also likes his boy R4-P17). The Jedi pilots already like to disengage to regenerate their force pool, so why not also regenerate your HP at the same time? I've won several games simply because between force, evade tokens, and R2 regen, my opponent was unable to chase down and kill my Jedi ace quickly enough. All the while the rest of my list got several turns to hammer them.

The mod slot has some flexibility, but I'm finding myself leaving it empty more and more often. Afterburners is solid on Anakin to game his ability, but I don't know if I'd splash it on anyone else. Synched Console is also ok if you have points spare.

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6 minutes ago, CRCL said:

I don't know if I'd got that far. There's a few choices to be made, but I find I always default back to the same upgrades on the Jedi.

I think the force slot is pretty weak for the Jedi pilots. Really Hate is the only good Force power available atm, and that's only for 3 factions. None of the Force powers stand out as particularly good for their cost. I don't mind Heightened Perception on Mace, but I can usually find a better use for those 3pts somewhere else in my list. The problem with most of the force powers is they have 2 inherent costs. They have their regular cost, but then most of them also cost a force token, which is already useful. You end up paying a heap of points to use your force tokens (already a precious resource) in a niche way. It might be OK if those abilities were really powerful (like Supernatural Reflexes), but most of them are pretty weak, and the force token already inherently does something powerful. This is why Hate is so good, it gives you more force tokens for no real cost and shores up a weakness (being focus-fired down).

Hate and Sense because they are reasonably costed and don't necessarily require you to spend a force token. Battle Meditation has utility, but has to be built around. I generally agre on the rest. SNR is now almost unplayably expensive (fun on Inquisitors though), Heighened Perception is okay, but expensive to use and often does nothing, Instinctive Aim has no decent carrier (needs a ship with a bad primary, missile/torp, no sensor slot, and ideally reload), Brilliant Evasion is Heroic at six times the cost, and Predictive Shot is probably only playable on Seventh Sister, and even there you'd probably be better off with Hate or Sense.

Quote

The Calibrated Laser Targeting Config is pretty bad, while the Delta-7B Config is pretty much auto-include IMO. The PS3/4 pilots will struggle to get bullseye on targets, which would be fine if CLT was nice and cheap, but 4/6pts is a joke. The PS5/6 aces have an easier time getting bullseye, but again 8/10pts is pretty steep, and generally that’s not how higher PS aces like to play. They prefer to take shots out the edge of their arc so they have abort lines. To make matters worse, it eats up your mod slot, which hurts Anakin specifically.

I've seen it played to great effect a few times. 7B gets you an extra die, sure, but CLT gives you an extra hit (provided you have focus/force). Not too useful against small ship aces, but this is a meta that also includes Falcons, Lambdas, Upsilons, Infiltrators, ARCs, Scurrgs as well as I1-2 Y-Wings, Bombers and Vultures. I wouldn't discount it just yet.

Quote

Similarly the R2 Astromech is the clear winner in the astromech slot (Mace also likes his boy R4-P17). The Jedi pilots already like to disengage to regenerate their force pool, so why not also regenerate your HP at the same time? I've won several games simply because between force, evade tokens, and R2 regen, my opponent was unable to chase down and kill my Jedi ace quickly enough. All the while the rest of my list got several turns to hammer them.

I wouldn't discount R4. Blue 1-turns and 2-turns make the ship much less predictable, especially after k-turns and sloops (also, Falcon, Palpatine, Sloane). Ahsoka and Mace love these moves. For Mace, R4 and R4-P17 have long term and short term payoffs respectively, so choice would depend on play style as well as budget. R2 is great, but not the only option here.

Quote

The mod slot has some flexibility, but I'm finding myself leaving it empty more and more often. Afterburners is solid on Anakin to game his ability, but I don't know if I'd splash it on anyone else. Synched Console is also ok if you have points spare.

Those are the only two options, but two real options is more than most ships have in this category. Probably not going to use this slot very often, but it's there, at least.

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Playeyed Sense + R2 last night in my 4 JK CLT list, pretty good synergy, Sense can make R2 an obvious choice.

I like CLT on low PS. The scaling is much more aggressive than 7B and the trigger rate is pretty decent even against higher PS, esp if you are (sense)blocking.

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4 hours ago, CRCL said:

I don't know if I'd got that far. There's a few choices to be made, but I find I always default back to the same upgrades on the Jedi.

I think the force slot is pretty weak for the Jedi pilots. Really Hate is the only good Force power available atm, and that's only for 3 factions. None of the Force powers stand out as particularly good for their cost. I don't mind Heightened Perception on Mace, but I can usually find a better use for those 3pts somewhere else in my list. The problem with most of the force powers is they have 2 inherent costs. They have their regular cost, but then most of them also cost a force token, which is already useful. You end up paying a heap of points to use your force tokens (already a precious resource) in a niche way. It might be OK if those abilities were really powerful (like Supernatural Reflexes), but most of them are pretty weak, and the force token already inherently does something powerful. This is why Hate is so good, it gives you more force tokens for no real cost and shores up a weakness (being focus-fired down).

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that a lot of the Force powers are overpriced, even more so on Delta (and yet even more so when you're taking 7B if it scales by agility). Predictive shot should only cost 1 point, when you look at what it's really doing, on average you are removing a single green die. There are cases where you will do more and others when you won't be able to use it at all. And removing that die is really no better than using a Force normally to get an extra hit if you rolled an eyeball. So unless you have Force to burn it's only providing a secondary option in many cases. I already commented earlier in this thread how Brilliant Evasion  is hot garbage. I mean in theory if there is a time you could activate it and you only have 1 Force and no Focus, then it's doing the job of a Hull Upgrade, but how often is that going to come up before the ship dies outright? For a ship with 2 agility it's a 1/16 chance, I don't expect most 2 agility ships are going to survive even 8 attacks without other defenses in their favor. And while it's more likely to come up on a 3 agility ship, how many of those have more than 4 or 5 hull? What are the odds you roll that before you pop? It should only cost 1 on 2 agility or lower ships and no more than 3 on 3 agility ships. SNR should scale at half the rate, 20 points is still expensive even on an I6 that can abuse it.

That is all of course secondary to the problem of putting a Force upgrade on a Delta-7. The beginning of this thread talked about the diminishing returns on options. Force powers on the Delta-7 is a perfect example of this. Every Delta-7 pilot besides Mace and the generic have 3 built in ways to spend the Force beyond the base effect. Every other non Delta-7 pilot has at most 1. Every Force power besides Hate is just another way to spend the Force. Your Luke and generic Inquisitor get a lot more out of their first new option on how to spend Force, than Obi or Anakin are going to get on their 4th. I am not sure there is a good solution to this either, unless you just made Force upgrades cheaper on the Delta-7 specifically. The next best option is balancing the prices so they are questionable on the Delta-7 but almost must pick on other ships (which may not be a bad thing given how few Force pilots their are and their inherent cost already).

 

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27 minutes ago, GeneralVryth said:

That is all of course secondary to the problem of putting a Force upgrade on a Delta-7. The beginning of this thread talked about the diminishing returns on options. Force powers on the Delta-7 is a perfect example of this. Every Delta-7 pilot besides Mace and the generic have 3 built in ways to spend the Force beyond the base effect. Every other non Delta-7 pilot has at most 1. Every Force power besides Hate is just another way to spend the Force. Your Luke and generic Inquisitor get a lot more out of their first new option on how to spend Force, than Obi or Anakin are going to get on their 4th. I am not sure there is a good solution to this either,

Scaling the cost of some force powers relative to the user's force rating could work.

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1 hour ago, GeneralVryth said:

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that a lot of the Force powers are overpriced, even more so on Delta (and yet even more so when you're taking 7B if it scales by agility). Predictive shot should only cost 1 point, when you look at what it's really doing, on average you are removing a single green die. There are cases where you will do more and others when you won't be able to use it at all. And removing that die is really no better than using a Force normally to get an extra hit if you rolled an eyeball. So unless you have Force to burn it's only providing a secondary option in many cases. I already commented earlier in this thread how Brilliant Evasion  is hot garbage. I mean in theory if there is a time you could activate it and you only have 1 Force and no Focus, then it's doing the job of a Hull Upgrade, but how often is that going to come up before the ship dies outright? For a ship with 2 agility it's a 1/16 chance, I don't expect most 2 agility ships are going to survive even 8 attacks without other defenses in their favor. And while it's more likely to come up on a 3 agility ship, how many of those have more than 4 or 5 hull? What are the odds you roll that before you pop? It should only cost 1 on 2 agility or lower ships and no more than 3 on 3 agility ships. SNR should scale at half the rate, 20 points is still expensive even on an I6 that can abuse it.

That is all of course secondary to the problem of putting a Force upgrade on a Delta-7. The beginning of this thread talked about the diminishing returns on options. Force powers on the Delta-7 is a perfect example of this. Every Delta-7 pilot besides Mace and the generic have 3 built in ways to spend the Force beyond the base effect. Every other non Delta-7 pilot has at most 1. Every Force power besides Hate is just another way to spend the Force. Your Luke and generic Inquisitor get a lot more out of their first new option on how to spend Force, than Obi or Anakin are going to get on their 4th. I am not sure there is a good solution to this either, unless you just made Force upgrades cheaper on the Delta-7 specifically. The next best option is balancing the prices so they are questionable on the Delta-7 but almost must pick on other ships (which may not be a bad thing given how few Force pilots their are and their inherent cost already).

Yeah agreed. Sense is partially an exception since it's free at R0-1, but it's only worth considering for lower Ini. Hopefully we get another good option with the Actis release.

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Scaling the cost of some force powers relative to the user's force rating could work.

Eh... I don't think so. That would either just make them even more expensive on the higher Force pilots or cheaper for the generic/1 Force pilots. The problem though is you still only recharge 1 Force a turn, and you're adding an option to spend Force on a chassis full of them. People, get into the mistake (in my opinion) of thinking that 2 or 3 Force is a lot better than 1. But the truth is each additional Force has progressively less value because the recharge is always 1 a turn. The only reason Battle Meditation is so popular on Delta-7s is that is the only ship that can use it, and it's a good power.

I really don't think there is a good solution unless FFG wants to start adjusting power costs based off chassis. The next best option is just making the other Force powers more competitively, and relying on the scarcity of Force pilots (especially generics) to keep things in check.

Now I actually do think giving some chassis' free points to spend on certain upgrade slots would be a boon for the game overall. Right now a lot of the problems when it comes to balancing ordinance focused platforms is keeping them cheap enough to be able to afford munitions and still being competitive while not making them so cheap that they can be massed. Imagine if the Z-95 and V-19 each costed one or two more points, but got a 2 to 4 point reduction on the missiles they purchase? Or for a more dramatic example, if Bombers, Y-wings, and Punishers each costed 3 to 5 points more, but got 6 to 8 points worth of free ordinance or turrets? Those ships now start playing like the ordinance ships they are meant to be because they are strongly incentivized to take ordinance instead of being minimalist. You could do the same thing with Interceptors and Kirahxs with modifications, and even the A-wings and talents. Also both Tie Advanced with the Sensors/Missiles. Or both A-wings with Talents/Missiles. With the Delta-7 it would be in the area of the Force. If they all got a 2 points free to spend on Force talents without any actual cost increase how much more options would that feel like it's opening with them? It would certainly make things more complicated, but it's interesting to think about as well.

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The sled dogs finally delivered Wave 3 to my part of Alaska, so I’m going to get to play my first games with the D7 tonight.  I’ve got two lists to try, and they’re essentially the same, just trading out the Ace.

The first one is a “light” Ani.  I like this one because the Arcs can give Ani the third dice he loses from 7B.  When he gets a R1, Bullseye shot, they can still hand off the extra dice, and he would roll 4 dice (the max for 7thFG) and then add a focus result.  Quite the wallop.

ARC-170 Starfighter - 104th Battalion Pilot - 59
    104th Battalion Pilot - (42)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Shield Upgrade (4)
        Seventh Fleet Gunner (9)

ARC-170 Starfighter - 104th Battalion Pilot - 59
    104th Battalion Pilot - (42)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Shield Upgrade (4)
        Seventh Fleet Gunner (9)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - •Anakin Skywalker - 75
    •Anakin Skywalker - Hero of the Republic (60)
        •R4-P17 (5)
        Calibrated Laser Targeting (10)

Total: 193/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

The other list I hope to run benches Ani for a 7B Battle Meditation Mace Windu.  I think with this one, the ARCs are going to be passing their dice to each other with double modified shots, and also to pump up rear arc R1 shots.

ARC-170 Starfighter - 104th Battalion Pilot - 59
    104th Battalion Pilot - (42)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Shield Upgrade (4)
        Seventh Fleet Gunner (9)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - •Mace Windu - 82
    •Mace Windu - Harsh Traditionalist (46)
        •R4-P17 (5)
        Spare Parts Canisters (4)
        Battle Meditation (11)
        Delta-7B (16)

ARC-170 Starfighter - 104th Battalion Pilot - 59
    104th Battalion Pilot - (42)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Shield Upgrade (4)
        Seventh Fleet Gunner (9)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

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I had three games last night with different GR lists to varying success. 

(25) Gold Squadron Trooper [V-19 Torrent Starfighter] x2

(42) 104th Battalion Pilot [ARC-170 Starfighter] x2

(60) Anakin Skywalker [Delta-7 Aethersprite]

(4) Predictive Shot (2) R4 Astromech

Total points: 200

I just couldn't get damage through with this one and lost pretty badly. 

 

(60) Anakin Skywalker [Delta-7 Aethersprite]

(5) R4-P44 (18) Delta-7 (6) Afterburners

Points: 89

(49) "Jag" [ARC-170 Starfighter]

(4) R4-P Astromech (3) Clone Commander Cody (2) Synchronized Console

Points: 58

(25) Gold Squadron Trooper [V-19 Torrent Starfighter] x2

Total points: 197

Won with this with only my V19's left on the board. Was overly aggressive with Ani and paid the price but he put in the damage before he bit the dust. 

 

 

(47) Ahsoka Tano [Delta-7 Aethersprite]

(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting

Points: 51

(39) Jedi Knight [Delta-7 Aethersprite]

(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting

Points: 43 x2

(49) "Jag" [ARC-170 Starfighter]

(14) Chancellor Palpatine

Points: 63

Total points: 200

Played against 5 ship Resistance. One JK survived 4 shots in the first round with focus and evade (one hp left) and only died 3 rounds later. The other JK and Snips just kept on tanking shots with force and focus and eventually won on points by slowly chipping the Awings down. CLT happened on about 60% of shots but didn't add too much overall except for one round where Ello took two R1 shots while stressed and I rolled all paint. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Phelan Boots said:

ARC-170 Starfighter - 104th Battalion Pilot - 59
    104th Battalion Pilot - (42)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Shield Upgrade (4)
        Seventh Fleet Gunner (9)

ARC-170 Starfighter - 104th Battalion Pilot - 59
    104th Battalion Pilot - (42)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Shield Upgrade (4)
        Seventh Fleet Gunner (9)

Delta-7 Aethersprite - •Anakin Skywalker - 75
    •Anakin Skywalker - Hero of the Republic (60)
        •R4-P17 (5)
        Calibrated Laser Targeting (10)

Total: 193/200
  

So I ended up playing two games with this list.  The first one was against 655 Jedi Knights, and I gave him initiative.  In the second turn of combat my Anakin  boosted through a gas cloud, for a R1/Bullseye shot on Clonakin.  With the 7thFG he achieved the full wombo-combo of four natural hits plus a force converted focus result and smoked his evil twin off the board.  This was a real Order-66 list with Anakin and his clones hunting down all the Jedi and systematically destroying them.

The second game was against Fenn, Kavil, and Old Terry.  Again, I gave him initiative, and in the first round of combat my ARCs left Fenn at one hull while he striped one of mine of all shields.  On the next turn Ani pulled off the 5k into another Wombo-Combo and finished the job.  We called it after I killed Terry.

I know this thread is about the Delta-7, and I have to say in both games it did work.  I really enjoyed Calibrated Laser Targeting combined with the Seventh Fleet Gunners, and I didn’t feel like it was that hard to pull bullseyes.  You could easily drop the Shield Upgrades in order to beef up Anakin, although one of my ARCs survived the second game on one hull, having used both R2 charges.

*Edit* - I should add, managing the D7’s Force is a big difference that separates them from other acey ships.  Also, 7thFG needs to be managed well, too.  I had a couple turns in the last game where I probably could have killed 1 hull Terry a turn or two earlier had I tried to take a shot instead of recharging my gunner.

Edited by Phelan Boots

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21 hours ago, Okapi said:

Hate and Sense because they are reasonably costed and don't necessarily require you to spend a force token. Battle Meditation has utility, but has to be built around. I generally agree on the rest. SNR is now almost unplayably expensive (fun on Inquisitors though), Heighened Perception is okay, but expensive to use and often does nothing, Instinctive Aim has no decent carrier (needs a ship with a bad primary, missile/torp, no sensor slot, and ideally reload), Brilliant Evasion is Heroic at six times the cost, and Predictive Shot is probably only playable on Seventh Sister, and even there you'd probably be better off with Hate or Sense.

Sense is a bit steep at 6pts, ~2-3pts seems more reasonable. I think FFG just went a bit over the top with costing battle meditation. Someone needs to tell them coordinate is only a problem when you give it to **** cheap support ships. SNR definitely needed to be increased in cost, but I agree they overdid it a little bit. Aim, Evasion, and Predictive are all junk that should cost 1pt. Spending a force token for a weak ability is already a high enough cost.

As well a being a solid force ability, I feel like Hate captures the essence of the Dark-side really well. The lightside needs an equally powerful and fluffy upgrade. something like this:

One with the Force (Side A):
3pt Force Upgrade. Lightside only. 
Setup: Equip this side faceup.
When this ship is destroyed, equip One with the Force to another friendly, unique ship, then flip this card.

One with the Force (Side B):
3pt Force Upgrade. Lightside only. 
+1 Force (regens).
End of Game: Return One with the Force to it's original ship.

 

Quote

I've seen it played to great effect a few times. 7B gets you an extra die, sure, but CLT gives you an extra hit (provided you have focus/force). Not too useful against small ship aces, but this is a meta that also includes Falcons, Lambdas, Upsilons, Infiltrators, ARCs, Scurrgs as well as I1-2 Y-Wings, Bombers and Vultures. I wouldn't discount it just yet.

I've played a few more games running CLT on Anakin and/or Obi-Wan, and it's disappointed me pretty much every time. Getting bullseye on targets is just counter intuitive to the way aces want to play. When you do get the bullseye shot, adding a focus is good, but it tilts you even further towards using your force pool, which is already stretched thin. The extra red dice from 7B doesn't need the setup of a bullseye or a force to be useful (though the extra mod helps). It's not just the extra attack dice. The +2 shields makes a big difference to the Delta-7's survive-ability.

Maybe I'll have to try out the CLT + 2x 7thFG Wombo-Combo mentioned. 
 

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I wouldn't discount R4. Blue 1-turns and 2-turns make the ship much less predictable, especially after k-turns and sloops (also, Falcon, Palpatine, Sloane). Ahsoka and Mace love these moves. For Mace, R4 and R4-P17 have long term and short term payoffs respectively, so choice would depend on play style as well as budget. R2 is great, but not the only option here.

R4 is cheap, which is nice, but do you really need 1 and 2-turns to be blue? I've never really had issues with my non-Mace Jedi being stressed, and even when they are I find their selection of blues more than adequate. I think it would be different if their preposition gave them a stress rather than costing a force. R4 is a legit option on Mace though. I myself prefer R4-P17 on him, but I understand using the R4 Astromech.

For 2pts more than the R4 Astromech you can have the R2, which essentially gives you +2HP. The Jedi pilots already have a tenancy to disengage to regenerate their force pool, so why not also regenerate your shields at the same time? Between their force pool, evade tokens, repositioning, and R2 Astromech, I've found Jedi pilots to be extremely tough. I've won games simply because my opponent committed to my Jedi ace early, and just couldn't finish them off, all the while the rest of my squad was hammering them.
 

15 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Scaling the cost of some force powers relative to the user's force rating could work.

It makes sense for some of them. Hate is definitely better if you have 3+ force, and pretty weak if you only have 1.
 

14 hours ago, Biophysical said:

The initial cost of Brilliant Evasion is pants on head crazy.  I might take it every now and then as insurance if it cost 1.

Yeah, it's definitely a 1pt upgrade ATM. It really should have been cheaper and worked on offence as well.

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9 hours ago, CRCL said:

As well a being a solid force ability, I feel like Hate captures the essence of the Dark-side really well. The lightside needs an equally powerful and fluffy upgrade. something like this:

One with the Force (Side A):
3pt Force Upgrade. Lightside only. 
Setup: Equip this side faceup.
When this ship is destroyed, equip One with the Force to another friendly, unique ship, then flip this card.

One with the Force (Side B):
3pt Force Upgrade. Lightside only. 
+1 Force (regens).
End of Game: Return One with the Force to it's original ship.

Why not just make it a condition? When destroyed, assign the condition to a friendly ship. Saves moving upgrade cards around.

My issue is that force ghosts weren't really a thing during clone wars - which means the Republic - the faction with the most lightside force users - shouldn't have them.

A nice idea might be a direct equivalent to hate - a way to refill those force charges. Rather than recovering force charge in conflicts, Jedi should be seeking serenity.... so something which lets them recover any number of Icon force on a trigger - maybe instead of attacking, or an action (would combo nicely with battle meditation!). Just a passive increased force regen feels to 'easy' - I mean, Hate is passive and easy but the prerequisite of being shot is very harsh and nicely self-destructive. 

Maybe a reverse - if you make it through the engagement phase without being hit by an attack?

 

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