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cybu

U-Wing bump after 90° rotation

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During my last tournament we had the following situation: One of my ships bumped into the U-Wing of my opponent. He then tried to turn the U-Wing around 90° with his stop maneuver. While doing so his nubs touched my ship in a way that it was not easily possible to place the U-Wing. If it would have been a normal maneuver it would have been very clearly a bump. I then said that it was a bump and therefore he couldn't turn the U-Wing around . My opponent didn't believe me and argued that a 90° and 180° rotation could never bump. But I was really sure that I've read about that situation a while ago. But now I can't find that anywhere. Was I right or wrong?

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29 minutes ago, cybu said:

During my last tournament we had the following situation: One of my ships bumped into the U-Wing of my opponent. He then tried to turn the U-Wing around 90° with his stop maneuver. While doing so his nubs touched my ship in a way that it was not easily possible to place the U-Wing. If it would have been a normal maneuver it would have been very clearly a bump. I then said that it was a bump and therefore he couldn't turn the U-Wing around . My opponent didn't believe me and argued that a 90° and 180° rotation could never bump. But I was really sure that I've read about that situation a while ago. But now I can't find that anywhere. Was I right or wrong?

You're right. Nubs count, and if nubs prevent placement on a rotation you can't complete the rotation.

Note that on a 180, there should never be a problem because there were already nubs there, but it is possible for a 90 degree rotation to fail.

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1 minute ago, Maui. said:

You're right. Nubs count, and if nubs prevent placement on a rotation you can't complete the rotation.

Note that on a 180, there should never be a problem because there were already nubs there, but it is possible for a 90 degree rotation to fail.

Thanks! That's exactly what I thought. Also the 180 turn does clearly work, I agreed on that with my opponent.

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Posted (edited)

To be clear,  If someone bump you and after you have decided for a 180/90 degree rotation you bump too. Right?

Because bases are squared and teorically after the rotation is impossible that you don't touch the other ship (that bumped you before).

So you do not move and don't do actions

 

Edited by Manolox

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The problem we had was that the two ships in question were aligned side by side. When the U-Wing tried to rotate, the nubs were in the way and prevented the ship from being placed. If only a corner of my ship would have touched the U-Wing, it could have been possible to rotate the U-Wing in such a way that both ships would have still been touching (And with a 180° turn that will always happen). The U-Wing would then have been able to execute the maneuver and would have had the opportunity to make an action (white stop maneuver. Leia, yay!).
 

From the rules reference:

Stationary
[...]
A ship that executes this maneuver counts as executing a maneuver, does not overlap any ships, does trigger the effects of overlapping any obstacles at range 0, and continues to be at range 0 of any objects it was touching before executing this maneuver.

 

A ship fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship. If a ship executes a maneuver and overlaps a ship, it must partially execute that maneuver by performing the following steps:
[...]
3. The ship skips its Perform Action step.


Although rare, it is possible for a ship to move in such a way that it is at range 0 of another ship (in physical contact with it) without having overlapped it.

 

What I conclude from this: If the ship is able to rotate without overlapping, it will execute the maneuver and therefore NOT skip the Perform Action step. It will however continue to be at range 0 of any object it was touching before. So no shooting! But once the nubs mess up the overlapping part, it's a bump. 

Now to get to Roller of Blanks question about the final position in a bump: In my case that was pretty easy because the ships were aligned. Any partial rotation would have caused an overlap much more severe than only with the nubs. So the ship had to stay in its original position. But I guess there could be a situation where only the corner of a ship is touching the U-Wing and after rotating a nub could end up exactly on this corner of the base. There could be made a case for partial rotation but we have no tool to execute that even nearly accurate. My gut says: Leave it in its original position. But my gut also says: that situation is veeery unlikely and I will probably never have to make a ruling about that in a tournament. 😉

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Manolox said:

To be clear,  If someone bump you and after you have decided for a 180/90 degree rotation you bump too. Right?

Because bases are squared and teorically after the rotation is impossible that you don't touch the other ship (that bumped you before).

So you do not move and don't do actions

 

A rotation isn't a maneuver; for U-wings, the rotation comes after a 0 stop maneuver, which by definition is always fully executed. A failed rotation is not a bump and would not cause you to skip your Perform Action step.

EDIT - also, in case you're thinking that a bump means you auto fail a rotation, it doesn't; the rotation only fails if it doesn't fit.

also also, if the bases are correctly proportioned you shouldn't ever fail a 180 rotation, since the front nubs would be occupying the same space that the back nubs originally occupied, and vice versa.

Edited by Maui.

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5 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

Furthermore, the bases actually aren't quite square either.

Yes, I know. I tried to argue about that with my opponent as well, but he didn't believe me and I felt it was just easier to prove my point with the nubs.

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6 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

Furthermore, the bases actually aren't quite square either.

I thought the bases were supposed to be square; just the cardboard isn't.

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So, further to the OP question...

If the U-wing performs the stationary move, doesn't rotate but is still touching the other ship, does it skip its action?

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15 minutes ago, wjcargill said:

So, further to the OP question...

If the U-wing performs the stationary move, doesn't rotate but is still touching the other ship, does it skip its action?

No. A stop maneuver is by definition always fully executed, because you must fit in the spot you already occupied.

Note that if you're range 0 of anything before performing a stop maneuver, you remain at range 0 after executing the maneuver, even though the maneuver was fully executed.

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42 minutes ago, wjcargill said:

So, further to the OP question...

If the U-wing performs the stationary move, doesn't rotate but is still touching the other ship, does it skip its action?

No.

Rules Reference  pg 6 under Stationary. 

Quote
  • A ship that executes this maneuver [Stationary] counts as executing a maneuver, does not overlap any ships, does trigger the effects of overlapping any obstacles at range 0, and continues to be at range 0 of any objects it was touching before executing this maneuver.
  • A ship that executes a stationary maneuver always fully executes the maneuver.

 

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On 3/25/2019 at 8:10 AM, cybu said:

Yes, I know. I tried to argue about that with my opponent as well, but he didn't believe me and I felt it was just easier to prove my point with the nubs.

come on.....

If your base are not square, change your base.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Maui. said:
1 hour ago, wjcargill said:

So, further to the OP question...

If the U-wing performs the stationary move, doesn't rotate but is still touching the other ship, does it skip its action?

No. A stop maneuver is by definition always fully executed, because you must fit in the spot you already occupied.

...

Additional note that what causes you to skip your action is when you Overlap s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶{a ship or Asteroid/Cloud}, but a stationary move will n̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶d̶o̶{not overlap a ship} as per the Rules Reference passage quoted by @Lyianx above.

Edited by nitrobenz
Correction

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1 minute ago, nitrobenz said:

Additional note that what causes you to skip your action is when you Overlap something, which a stationary move will never do as per the Rules Reference passage quoted by @Lyianx above.

when you overlap a ship. It will still overlap an obstacle. 

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On 3/24/2019 at 4:12 PM, Maui. said:

A rotation isn't a maneuver; for U-wings, the rotation comes after a 0 stop maneuver, which by definition is always fully executed. A failed rotation is not a bump and would not cause you to skip your Perform Action step.

EDIT - also, in case you're thinking that a bump means you auto fail a rotation, it doesn't; the rotation only fails if it doesn't fit.

also also, if the bases are correctly proportioned you shouldn't ever fail a 180 rotation, since the front nubs would be occupying the same space that the back nubs originally occupied, and vice versa.

this is correct a rotation is not a maneuver. 

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