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Mcpolle

The Ackbar slash??

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Hi guys, new player here, have played X-wing some good time, but have just recently bought into Armada.

Have been doing the rounds on You tube, with MOTF, and Crabbok, looking into their explanations, and bat reps, which have been really good learning, but keep hearing the Ackbar slash being named a lot, 

What is it??

Thx

Polle

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3 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

? Only when done incorrectly. 


Why don't you just write the more colloquially used "git gud" or something.

Listen, let's be frank, (even though I know we hate to look to data or evidence or anything other than our own biased local experiences of the game, which sometimes go no more broadly than rofl-stomping our little brother's fleet on the kitchen table): Looking at reasonably sized competitive events, Ackbar has been successful in the modern competitive scene in exactly one sort of archetype: the "death pickle" and/or "fish farm," depending on your dialect, wherein an Ackbar Super-MC80 wins typically by actively avoiding direct combat and most often by harvesting piles of objective tokens.  It's what Jeff Berling used to win the North American Championship in 2017, shortly after which it was nuked with errata.  Those sort of lists did, and still do, win by actively trying to avoid combat, and should the opponent be able to force combat usually it's the MC80 sniping away as it tries to go 1vs1 against opponent ships.  

It sure as **** never tried to "Ackbar slash" the opposition, because that is a terrible way to play Ackbar and a terrible way to play the game, at least in the competitive setting.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


Why don't you just write the more colloquially used "git gud" or something.

Because that wasnt what I wanted to say

Quote


Listen, let's be frank, (even though I know we hate to look to data or evidence or anything other than our own biased local experiences of the game)

Please look at data next time before posting utter drivel again. 

The rest of your post is just wrong. 

Edited by Ginkapo

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1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

? Only when done incorrectly. 

Out of I don't know how many games and tourneys, every single time I've seen the slash attempted, it ended badly for the fish. Just going off my own experience! (Disclaimer: I don't play Rebs, because they're terrorist scum. 😁)

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I tried this once (I think it was my 2nd game?) and my brother had his ISD and VSD fly towards each other when he saw me angling to go between them. I ended up ramming the VSD and died horribly. To be fair I had no clue whatsoever about how to steer well and we were on a smaller than normal table. 

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58 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Listen, let's be frank, (even though I know we hate to look to data or evidence or anything other than our own biased local experiences of the game, which sometimes go no more broadly than rofl-stomping our little brother's fleet on the kitchen table): Looking at reasonably sized competitive events, Ackbar has been successful in the modern competitive scene in exactly one sort of archetype: the "death pickle" and/or "fish farm," depending on your dialect, wherein an Ackbar Super-MC80 wins typically by actively avoiding direct combat and most often by harvesting piles of objective tokens.  It's what Jeff Berling used to win the North American Championship in 2017, shortly after which it was nuked with errata.  Those sort of lists did, and still do, win by actively trying to avoid combat, and should the opponent be able to force combat usually it's the MC80 sniping away as it tries to go 1vs1 against opponent ships.  

It sure as **** never tried to "Ackbar slash" the opposition, because that is a terrible way to play Ackbar and a terrible way to play the game, at least in the competitive setting.

Since you like data, here are all the Ackbar lists that placed in the top 10% of Regionals season. Looks like a lot more than fish farm is successful to me.

 

Melbourne,
Australia
1 25 0.00% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Advanced Gunnery Fire Lanes Intel Sweep MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Intel Officer Electronic
Countermeasures
Leading Shots Quad Battery
Turrets
Defiance       CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Jaina's Light             CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
Adar Tallon                                                                   312 A-wing (Shara Bey) A-wing A-wing A-wing A-wing A-wing VCX-100 Freighter                   87 399
Springfield,
OH
2 31 3.45% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Advanced Gunnery Capture the VIP Dangerous Territory MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Intel Officer Early Warning
System
Electronic
Countermeasures
Leading Shots Engine Techs Quad Battery
Turrets
Defiance   CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Jaina's Light             CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
Leia Organa
(Officer)
Comms Net         GR-75 Medium
Transports
Comms Net                                       393                                 0 393
Fredricton,
NB
2 21 7.14% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Most Wanted Fleet Ambush Minefields CR90-A Jaina's Light Toryn Farr Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Intel Officer Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
            CR90-A Intel Officer Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
        CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
                                      367 A-wing (Shara Bey) A-wing (Tycho
Celchu)
                            33 400
Marietta, GA 2   2.63% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Advanced Gunnery Planetary Ion Cannon Solar Corona MC80 Command
Cruiser
Defiance Strategic Adviser Engine Techs Electronic
Countermeasures
XI7 Turbolasers Leading Shots     CR90-A Jaina's Light Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
            CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
Bright Hope Comms Net Toryn Farr                                                               311 A-wing (Shara Bey) A-wing (Tycho
Celchu)
A-wing A-wing YT-2400 YT-2400                     87 398
New Jersey 1 27 0.00% Rebel Admiral Ackbar       MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Defiance Strategic Adviser Electronic
Countermeasures
Advanced Projectors Quad Battery
Turrets
Leading Shots     CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
              CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
            GR-75 Medium
Transports
                                                      321 X-wing (Wedge
Antilles)
Y-wing (Dutch
Vander)
VCX-100 Freighter VCX-100 Freighter Z-95 Z-95                     79 400
Chicago,
IL
3 25 6.90% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Close-Range Intel Scan Fleet Ambush Solar Corona MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Home One Electronic
Countermeasures
Early Warning
System
Leading Shots Strategic Adviser Engine Techs Quad Battery
Turrets
  Assault Frigate
Mk2B
Early Warning
System
Bail Organa Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Caitken and
Shollan
        CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Jaina's Light         CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Tantive IV                                                                 400                                 0 400

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Posted (edited)

As the guy that took 5th (of 39, thus top 25% not top 10%) with Ackbar in Atlanta/Marietta and squared off against the Ackbar that took 2nd in the final normal round, I can assure you neither of our lists were designed to run and hide. Both lists were designed to fight, more than 1v1 where possible, and to use Ackbar to the fullest extent possible. In fact that is why our game ended 0-0 with nothing dead (other than that I forgot to flak). We both knew the other wanted to fight and refused to give battle on the other’s terms because they were designed to fight and fight hard.

Fish Farm isn’t dead but it sure isn’t the only or even really the best way to Ackbar anymore. The fact that only one of @Truthiness‘s lists can farm Fire Lanes and that’s its only “infinite” objective speaks volumes to that.

Edited by GiledPallaeon

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

Since you like data, here are all the Ackbar lists that placed in the top 10% of Regionals season. Looks like a lot more than fish farm is successful to me.

 

 

Melbourne,
Australia
1 25 0.00% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Advanced Gunnery Fire Lanes Intel Sweep MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Intel Officer Electronic
Countermeasures
Leading Shots Quad Battery
Turrets
Defiance       CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Jaina's Light             CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
Adar Tallon                                                                   312 A-wing (Shara Bey) A-wing A-wing A-wing A-wing A-wing VCX-100 Freighter                   87 399
Springfield,
OH
2 31 3.45% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Advanced Gunnery Capture the VIP Dangerous Territory MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Intel Officer Early Warning
System
Electronic
Countermeasures
Leading Shots Engine Techs Quad Battery
Turrets
Defiance   CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Jaina's Light             CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
Leia Organa
(Officer)
Comms Net         GR-75 Medium
Transports
Comms Net                                       393                                 0 393
Fredricton,
NB
2 21 7.14% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Most Wanted Fleet Ambush Minefields CR90-A Jaina's Light Toryn Farr Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Intel Officer Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
            CR90-A Intel Officer Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
        CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
                                      367 A-wing (Shara Bey) A-wing (Tycho
Celchu)
                            33 400
Marietta, GA 2   2.63% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Advanced Gunnery Planetary Ion Cannon Solar Corona MC80 Command
Cruiser
Defiance Strategic Adviser Engine Techs Electronic
Countermeasures
XI7 Turbolasers Leading Shots     CR90-A Jaina's Light Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
            CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
Bright Hope Comms Net Toryn Farr                                                               311 A-wing (Shara Bey) A-wing (Tycho
Celchu)
A-wing A-wing YT-2400 YT-2400                     87 398
New Jersey 1 27 0.00% Rebel Admiral Ackbar       MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Defiance Strategic Adviser Electronic
Countermeasures
Advanced Projectors Quad Battery
Turrets
Leading Shots     CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
              CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
          GR-75 Medium
Transports
            GR-75 Medium
Transports
                                                      321 X-wing (Wedge
Antilles)
Y-wing (Dutch
Vander)
VCX-100 Freighter VCX-100 Freighter Z-95 Z-95                     79 400
Chicago,
IL
3 25 6.90% Rebel Admiral Ackbar Close-Range Intel Scan Fleet Ambush Solar Corona MC80 Assault
Cruiser
Home One Electronic
Countermeasures
Early Warning
System
Leading Shots Strategic Adviser Engine Techs Quad Battery
Turrets
  Assault Frigate
Mk2B
Early Warning
System
Bail Organa Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Caitken and
Shollan
        CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Jaina's Light         CR90-A Turbolaser Reroute
Circuits
Tantive IV                                                                 400                                 0 400



Well, note that I said "Death Pickles" and "Fish Farm" lists.  The first two are seeming Fish Farms, the other three we have objectives for look to be Death Pickles.  Still, this does not prove that these three lists used "Ackbar Slash" offenses.  Most "Death Pickle" lists I've watched do fight, but they're still trying to kite and snipe, allowing the MC80 to take on just a portion of the opponent's fleet at a time by avoidance-style offense.  Avoid direct confrontation with most of the enemy fleet, pick off the margins of their formation.  That's very different than the "Ackbar Slash" direct style of offense, for sure, at least as I understand how "Ackbar Slash" is typically used (heading into the opponent's formation to activate both arcs against different targets).  I've never seen an Ackbar list intentionally doing that do well. 

Which is why I specifically noted Death Pickles and Fish Farms, and said that the both avoid direct head-on assault style of combat and often (but not always) like to rack up objective points.  So I guess, barring evidence that these three lists employed Ackbar-Slash styles of direct head-on multi-ship engagement, I don't see how this is disconfirming evidence?  They look like typical kite-and-snipe Death Pickles to me.


NOTE: Granted, the TRC Swarm is not a "death pickle," but I think it's probably also going "kite-and-snipe" offense rather than up-the-gut Ackbar slash, or at least I'd assume so.

 

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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When I lower myself to play the terrorist scum 😉 I love to fly a Death Pickle and running away is the last thing on my mind. A fully decked out Ackbar MC80 is extremely hard to kill and can dish out some real punishment.

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I run Ackbar and a fully loaded MC80, either with an adjacent MC75 with both running Exodus Fleet, or with a lone MC80 with Defiance, with some CR90s. Whether I decide to dive into the middle or quickly flank the enemy fleet and destroy them that way depends on what they run. But I can assure you, running is not something that ever comes to mind.

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Posted (edited)

I think the Ackbar slash as depicted in lore is not actually practical or else easy to pull off in Armada, due to the  nature of the gameplay. When Ackbar came out I spent some time trying to pull it off with the HMC80, to the HMC80's detriment. The main issue is that it can be easily front-blocked by the opponent because of that large base, and lack of speed and turning unlike the LMC80, which allows the opponent to prepare for it coming. Plus the lack of simulation of friendly fire when a ship is between 2 enemy ships(so it might turn into "World's End Beckett's death" instead haha).

I think the best candidate for a slash is an mc30c because of it's smaller size,  nimbleness and durability allowing it to nip between enemies and last long enough to do a slash(I believe Ackbar slashing mc30s will be strong SSD killers too). CR90s are also possible but I find it more of a situational tool for them and less of an actual doctrine to follow as the CR90 doesn't have as favourable side arcs plus explodes easily.

Haven't tried with mc75 yet but now that I think about it its front brawling capability could allow it to be the lead in a slash. The enemy will pay for trying to block the 75

Edited by Muelmuel

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15 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:



Well, note that I said "Death Pickles" and "Fish Farm" lists.  The first two are seeming Fish Farms, the other three we have objectives for look to be Death Pickles.  Still, this does not prove that these three lists used "Ackbar Slash" offenses.  Most "Death Pickle" lists I've watched do fight, but they're still trying to kite and snipe, allowing the MC80 to take on just a portion of the opponent's fleet at a time by avoidance-style offense.  Avoid direct confrontation with most of the enemy fleet, pick off the margins of their formation.  That's very different than the "Ackbar Slash" direct style of offense, for sure, at least as I understand how "Ackbar Slash" is typically used (heading into the opponent's formation to activate both arcs against different targets).  I've never seen an Ackbar list intentionally doing that do well. 

Which is why I specifically noted Death Pickles and Fish Farms, and said that the both avoid direct head-on assault style of combat and often (but not always) like to rack up objective points.  So I guess, barring evidence that these three lists employed Ackbar-Slash styles of direct head-on multi-ship engagement, I don't see how this is disconfirming evidence?  They look like typical kite-and-snipe Death Pickles to me.


NOTE: Granted, the TRC Swarm is not a "death pickle," but I think it's probably also going "kite-and-snipe" offense rather than up-the-gut Ackbar slash, or at least I'd assume so.

 

I'm the player on the top of that list and it was a death pickle I farmed nothing all day :P

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I think i want to try the Ackbar Slash now with this 

 

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Jamming Barrier
Navigation: Solar Corona

MC80 Assault Cruiser (114)
• Admiral Ackbar (38)
• Bail Organa (7)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
• Mon Calamari Exodus Fleet (5)
= 189 Points

MC30c Scout Frigate (69)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Mon Calamari Exodus Fleet (5)
= 88 Points

MC30c Scout Frigate (69)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Mon Calamari Exodus Fleet (5)
= 88 Points

Squadrons:
• Shara Bey (17)
• Tycho Celchu (16)
= 33 Points

Total Points: 398

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I managed an Ackbar Slash in the last round of regionals with this

 

Name: All the reds copy
Faction: Rebel
Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault: Close-Range Intel Scan
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Dangerous Territory

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Gunnery Team (7)
= 79 Points

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Gunnery Team (7)
= 79 Points

MC75 Armored Cruiser (104)
• Admiral Ackbar (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Gunnery Team (7)
= 153 Points

MC30c Scout Frigate (69)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Admonition (8)
= 86 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 397

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