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DakkaDakka12

Are vulture droids broken? (Energy cell charges)

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For 1 point more than a tie you get a firepower 3 missile with range 3

and you share calculate tokens

and kraken(on a Bel or Infiltrator) allows banking calculate tokens thus the reload for the missile does not prevent firing.

 

A bel or infiltrator with kraken

and fill the rest with vultures with energy cell charges.

 

What is the vultures weakness?

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Interested in how this archetype does. I feel like there's at least a possibility it'll verge on busted.

They explode real easy ofc, so instead of one ship delivering a 3 dice attack several times, you have several ships delivering a 3 dice attack once, with one or more exploding before firing. So the alpha could be very strong but will obviously peter out quickly. It's quite a different thing.

You're definitely not gonna want to joust it. The dial is wafty enough that it may not be too hard to avoid with more vulnerable, but more manoeuverable lists.

Honestly no idea but it does worry me a bit, in theory.

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19 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

They have two agility and three hit points, and typically a single calculat for defence.  That is their weakness.  What more weakness do you need?

And the energy shells only shoot every other turn.

And if they're on a rock, just... stay away from the rock.  Force them to come out and fight you in the open, and you will M U R D E R them.

1 defense is weak, but they can have more modded firepower 3 shots than any other faction. You will probably kill a vulture on the joust, but a vulture is cheap and I can probably kill or cripple one of yours.

Sidenote energy cell charges work at range 3 which helps a vulture’s defense.

2 energy cell charges shoot every turn if you dont use the calculate token and use kraken to make the calculate persist through turns.

3 Avoiding range 3 of a terrain piece is really nice area denial for the vulture player.

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2 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

1 defense is weak, but they can have more modded firepower 3 shots than any other faction. You will probably kill a vulture on the joust, but a vulture is cheap and I can probably kill or cripple one of yours.

Sidenote energy cell charges work at range 3 which helps a vulture’s defense.

2 energy cell charges shoot every turn if you dont use the calculate token and use kraken to make the calculate persist through turns.

3 Avoiding range 3 of a terrain piece is really nice area denial for the vulture player.

1: range control.  Focus fire on one, kill it, move to the next, and so on.

 

2: no, when you reload them, you get weapons disabled that turn.

 

3: yes, it is.  It's also one or more of their ships not contributing.


Turn 0 is goign to be absolutely key here though; you need to make a large open area in which you can fight, and if you are forced into the rocks, do it from two directions so they can't focus fire across all angles.

 

E: and honestly, they NEED the firepower.  Single modded 2 die attacks on that chassis just wouldn't scratch anything tough in time to matter.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

1: range control.  Focus fire on one, kill it, move to the next, and so on.

 

2: no, when you reload them, you get weapons disabled that turn.

 

3: yes, it is.  It's also one or more of their ships not contributing.


Turn 0 is goign to be absolutely key here though; you need to make a large open area in which you can fight, and if you are forced into the rocks, do it from two directions so they can't focus fire across all angles.

 

E: and honestly, they NEED the firepower.  Single modded 2 die attacks on that chassis just wouldn't scratch anything tough in time to matter.

Attack (): Spend 1 . While you perform this attack, you may spend 1 calculate token to change 1  result to a  result. 

Action: Reload this card.

 

I dont understand why a vulture would get weapons disabled, the action reloads the card, its not a reload action.

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5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because reload is a keyword that points to the same procedure as the reload action.

 

Recharge is the one that just refreshes the charge with no other effects.

xwing.thumb.jpg.9bb9eb856d67fe8d58e6197080a71c76.jpg

 

Ok so the reload action states, "when a ship performs the reload action, it reloads by performing the following steps....". Energy shell charges state: "Action: reload this card"

The action performed on energy shell charges is NOT a reload action, it is a seperate action based on the wording on the card. Also see the text that says, "Additionally: If an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different than a reload action". This means that a reload and the reload action are two separate things. The question is if the ability that triggers the reload of the card's procedure the same as a reload action when the clause at the end of the reference states they are different from each other. 

Also, the keyword "recharge" is not in the rules reference

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If you don't think reload gives a disarm, tell me: how do you know what reloading does, if not proceed through the steps of Reload?

 

That note in the RRG about when reloading is not an action is boilerplate language used for many action descriptions. It doesn't change what reloading is.  

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1 hour ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

Attack (): Spend 1 . While you perform this attack, you may spend 1 calculate token to change 1  result to a  result. 

Action: Reload this card.

 

I dont understand why a vulture would get weapons disabled, the action reloads the card, its not a reload action.

Because FFG said so on their Wave 3 Livestream.

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9 minutes ago, matt.sucharski said:

If you don't think reload gives a disarm, tell me: how do you know what reloading does, if not proceed through the steps of Reload?

 

That note in the RRG about when reloading is not an action is boilerplate language used for many action descriptions. It doesn't change what reloading is.  

I know what reloading is, I thought it was a seperate action from reload as it does not have the reload action symbol. 

 

What is the part of reload that starts with “Additionally:” affect if not this situation?

It specifies that if an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different from a reload action.

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So yeah there's the disarm thing, and compounding their low hull and agility is their low Intiative. No one over 3 means Vultures will pop before firing. Maybe not against other swarms but anything else will be able to focus fire at least one Vulture before those missiles go off.

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It’s like barrel rolling as opposed to performing a barrel roll action.

You do the exact same thing, it’s just not considered an action.

Also this limits it to only reloading this card. (Hyena-proofing.)

 

More interesting to me: one of the Vulture quickbuilds has a focus-requirement missile? That feels broken 😜

Edited by SpiderMana

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10 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

I know what reloading is, I thought it was a seperate action from reload as it does not have the reload action symbol. 

 

What is the part of reload that starts with “Additionally:” affect if not this situation?

It specifies that if an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different from a reload action.

If it just gave you the Reload action, you could theoretically use it to reload other ordnance. As noted above, if these charges just gave you a White Reload action, they'd be an auto-pick for Hyenas who otherwise only have a red reload.

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7 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

More interesting to me: one of the Vulture quickbuilds has a focus-requirement missile? That feels broken 😜

Missed this part. A Focus token is possible (you're "Focused" per the rules as long as you have at least 1 Focus Token), though it is a bit costly to achieve:

Upgrade card

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2 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

For 1 point more than a tie you get a firepower 3 missile with range 3

and you share calculate tokens

and kraken(on a Bel or Infiltrator) allows banking calculate tokens thus the reload for the missile does not prevent firing.

 

A bel or infiltrator with kraken

and fill the rest with vultures with energy cell charges.

 

What is the vultures weakness?

I have only played a few games against Vultures, but I cannot tell you how many times I one shotted a Vulture. Range 1 against a Vulture and most 3 die primary ships will mess it up bad.

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The energy shell card doesn’t say preform a Reload Action, it says reload this card. It’s the Reload action that causes the Disarm token. The card doesn’t grant the Reload action (cards that do have the symbol). I don’t see how it can cause a Disarm token. 

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1 minute ago, Darth Wrath said:

The energy shell card doesn’t say preform a Reload Action, it says reload this card. It’s the Reload action that causes the Disarm token. The card doesn’t grant the Reload action (cards that do have the symbol). I don’t see how it can cause a Disarm token. 

You are wrong.  The steps for reloading, regardless of whether or not it the reload action, give the ship a weapon's disabled token.

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5 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

You are wrong.  The steps for reloading, regardless of whether or not it the reload action, give the ship a weapon's disabled token.

The rules are pretty clear. It’s the Reload action that causes the disarm. Can you show where in the rules it says the act of reloading causes it?

 

0B061D93-81B8-4051-B41C-4515BFD2F4CB.jpeg

Edited by Darth Wrath

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3 minutes ago, Darth Wrath said:

The rules are pretty clear. It’s the Reload action that causes the disarm. Can you show where in the rules it says the act of reloading causes it?

 

0B061D93-81B8-4051-B41C-4515BFD2F4CB.jpeg

 

No, it says "It reloads by performing the following steps", therefore it's not the reload action, but the act of reloading that causes you to gain a disarm token.

Edited by MasterShake2

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1 minute ago, Darth Wrath said:

The rules are pretty clear. It’s the Reload action that causes the disarm. Can you show where in the rules it says the act of reloading causes it?

Rules Reference page 15 under Reload. 

“RELOAD (󲈣)
Pilots can reload to rearm ordnance tubes by moving around ammo on their
ship. When a ship performs the 󲈣 action, it reloads by performing the following steps:
1. Choose one of the ship’s equipped 󲁏, 󲁐, or 󲁖 upgrade cards that has fewer active 󲈮 than its charge limit.
2. That card recovers one 󲈮.
3. The ship gains one disarm token.
Additionally:
• If an ability instructs a player to reload, this is different than performing a 󲈣 action. A ship that reloads without performing the action can still perform the 󲈣 action this round.”

 

Very clearly laid out, if a card instructs you to reload, you do the same thing as you would if you take the reload action.

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It isn’t clear to me. Not saying you’re wrong, but FfG needs to clarify. The note in the rules reference says an ability that tells a player to Reload is different than taking the Reload action and the Disarm is only mentioned under the Reload action.

Hopefully they clarify soon. 

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