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azeronbloodmoone

official drop of DT

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7 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

You're ignoring the following:

Defensive surge (66% chance to save vs. 50%)

Better dice at every range (red melee, 2 white short at 1-2 or 1 black at 1-3) even without the gun

Better courage

Better Precise Keyword

Additional Disciplined and Steady Keywords

The difference between a Stormtrooper and a Death trooper is 8 points, no matter how you slice it and it looks to me like those 8 points are put to very good use.  

The difference between a Scout Trooper and a Death trooper is 4 points (15v19)

The cost of the scout trooper sniper rifle is 13 points, the cost of the DLT-19D is 15 points.
Please compare like to like.  

Yes, snipers can one shot a single death trooper....as well as most other units in the game.  But the defense against snipers has ever been cover, artillery and air strikes.  

 

yeah they have a bit more defense with the surge to defense, and yes at close range they do have better dice (which i like) i was putting out a decked out unit and breaking it down by model for points. if you loose a single stormtrooper it is less of a point hit per model then a D.T. but they can't do as much dice rolling as D.T. it will be up to each person to determine what they consider worth the points or not. the additional die rolling on aims could be good if you get a aim each turn.
the discipline only comes in at the start of each round if you give them orders. (which if your running these you should be giving them orders each turn taking away from other units).
sadly no steady on them. they do have ready but if they get suppression for any reason they loose the reason for that aim token being given to them after they act for the round.
just saying that for the points i am guessing at most people will run 1 or 2 but no more. you can run more activations with just stormies and dlt then D.T. and dlts.

 

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6 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

You're not wrong, but the high cost means that I doubt we'll see lists with more than 2 of these boys at most.

Fair, and I think that might be the sweet spot for them. Two DTs, Krennic, and two Sniper strike teams is around 400 points, which isn't too terrible for 5 activations.

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With that awesome save (red + surge) and high price-per-wound, the Death Troopers seem ideal for healing with a medbot. I could see running each DT unit paired with a healer corp. The DTs would benefit from the healing, and if you took the DT leader, the corp would benefit from Compel. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

yeah they have a bit more defense with the surge to defense, and yes at close range they do have better dice (which i like) i was putting out a decked out unit and breaking it down by model for points. if you loose a single stormtrooper it is less of a point hit per model then a D.T. but they can't do as much dice rolling as D.T. it will be up to each person to determine what they consider worth the points or not. the additional die rolling on aims could be good if you get a aim each turn.
the discipline only comes in at the start of each round if you give them orders. (which if your running these you should be giving them orders each turn taking away from other units).
sadly no steady on them. they do have ready but if they get suppression for any reason they loose the reason for that aim token being given to them after they act for the round.
just saying that for the points i am guessing at most people will run 1 or 2 but no more. you can run more activations with just stormies and dlt then D.T. and dlts.

 

I'm sorry but point per model just doesn't work if you're including all the variables for upgrades.  For instance Grenades in a regular trooper squad are 1.25 per model is you have no extra guys but they are 1 point per model if you have 1 extra combatant model and .83 points per model if you have 2 combatant extras.  It's skewing out your math.  

Your underlying idea is sound, but I don't think you're accurately able to compare in an objective fashion when you do it the way you're doing it. 

 

Edited by Zrob314

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7 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

I'm sorry but point per model just doesn't work if you're including all the variables for upgrades.  For instance Grenades in a regular trooper squad are 1.25 per model is you have no extra guys but they are 1 point per model if you have 1 extra combatant model and .83 points per model if you have 2 combatant extras.  It's skewing out your math.  

Your underlying idea is sound, but I don't think you're accurately able to compare in an objective fashion when you do it the way you're doing it. 

how is it flawed i show you the math and that is just by adding the models now if you add in the extras i can gladly show the math on that too.


Stormtrooper no upgrade = 44 points = 11 points per mini

Stormtrooper + Grenade = 12.25 per mini (49 points)

Stormtrooper + HH12 = 15.6 Per mini

Stormtrooper + HH12 + Stormtrooper Upgrade = 14.83 per mini

Stormtrooper + HH12 + Stormtrooper Upgrade + Grenade = 13.83 per mini

Stormtrooper + Stormtrooper  Upgrade + DLT + Grenade = 14 points per mini (total 84 points for a unit)
Storm trooper  with storm trooper and DLT = 79 points total (can have 6 of these for a total of 474) per mini = 13.16 points (6 minis)
Storm trooper  with DLT only = 68 points (6 total = 408) per mini = 13.6 points (5 minis)
Death Trooper  with DLT = 110 points (with krennic have 4 = 440 points) per mini = 22 points (5 minis)
Death Trooper  with DLT and Gun upgrade = 118 points (472 for 4) per mini = 23.6 points (5 minis)
Death Trooper  with DTF16 and Gun upgrade = 106 (can only have 1 DTF16) = 21.2 points (5 minis)

Death Trooper naked = 19 points per mini

Death Trooper+ Grenade = 20.25 per mini

 

the reason why you do it per mini and total points of that unit is as the battle goes on and you loose minis, each point value represents how much you are loosing for your investment of points into that unit as a whole. you can't do the main unit and then upgrades separate as you are investing those upgrades into that unit making the core unit price go up also the upgrade troopers count to the overall core unit you have.

 

so if you manage to get a 800 point list exact every time a Stormtrooper dies off in a unit your loosing less points per death then if a D.T. dies off. you invest more into D.T. have your army making you want to be less offensive with your expensive units putting them in key spots that could be in wide open.

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What other upgrades would you consider?

I think duck and cover is great as always, especially if you want to push up and use them at close range.

Hunter would make enemy commanders really regret their life choices even at range 4.

I dont think the any of the comms upgrades stand out for them just yet.

Concussion grenades maybe an option if you dont want to muck around with reconfigure

Gear - recon intel and enviro gear. Any others?

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44 minutes ago, Ophion said:

What other upgrades would you consider?

I think duck and cover is great as always, especially if you want to push up and use them at close range.

Hunter would make enemy commanders really regret their life choices even at range 4.

I dont think the any of the comms upgrades stand out for them just yet.

Concussion grenades maybe an option if you dont want to muck around with reconfigure

Gear - recon intel and enviro gear. Any others?

Comms relay will be good on them with Krennic's Entourage ability. Basically gives a free order to any unit within 1-2

Emergency stims will be good for how high cost each model is.

If running with Krennic then I would take Overwatch to combo with Deploy the Garrison 

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1 hour ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

 

the reason why you do it per mini and total points of that unit is as the battle goes on and you loose minis, each point value represents how much you are loosing for your investment of points into that unit as a whole. you can't do the main unit and then upgrades separate as you are investing those upgrades into that unit making the core unit price go up also the upgrade troopers count to the overall core unit you have.

 

Two things. 

1)"per mini" isn't great standard of measure for your list.  Different units will have different mini counts and different hit point counts for those minis.  The recently added ability to heal changes all those calculations.  now 20 points I spend on unit A might benefit that unit or might benefit a different unit.  Naked wookiees are worth 25 points per mini but so are IRGs but wookiees have 3 HP each while IRGs have 2 each.

2) Not all upgrades face the same degradation of effectiveness.  Duck and Cover, grappling hooks and targeting scopes all have the exact same value no matter how many minis are left alive.  Precise has the same value until you drop below  the number of dice needed to get full effect.  If I'm shooting naked DT at range 2 my Precise two has full effect with two minis left in the squad (or not if I'm using the black dice) and full effect only with 3 or more alive .  You can't put grenades into the per figure calculation if you're using most heavy weapons because you're rarely going to use the grenades rather than the heavy weapon for that figure.  

It seems like you're looking at point efficiency and that's not bad, but your measuring stick is off.

I could say 5 units of rebel troopers is better than 3 units of wookie warriors (corps unit vs special forces unit like your example); the rebels are 10 points per figure....so much more efficient than the Wookiees at 25 points per figure.  It is correct, the per figure cost is definitely better.....but the implications of that choice could well be disastrous.....or they could not be, so perhaps cost per figure isn't the best dependent variable to use.

 

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11 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Comms relay will be good on them with Krennic's Entourage ability. Basically gives a free order to any unit within 1-2

Emergency stims will be good for how high cost each model is.

If running with Krennic then I would take Overwatch to combo with Deploy the Garrison 

I don't think you can combine Comms Relay and Entourage.

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You are right:
"When issuing an order via the entourage keyword, the order must be issued to a unit that has the name specified by the entourage keyword, however other game effects that trigger when a unit is issued an order may cause the order to be issued to a different unit instead."

My mistake :)

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You can use the two together but only once. They did rule you cannot combo it to pass out multiple order tokens off of Entourage. 

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Posted (edited)

I have a doubt maybe someone can think with me a bit here.

So in this expansion there is no personel slot but we can add a named/unique leader DT-F16 with its own miniature that takes the slot of the heavy weapon trooper (the DLT-19D troooper).

Therefore any aditional unit we buy after the first one will give us a extra mini to fool around (since we cannot field more than one DT-F16), right? This got me curious which one of the minis is that one and wich one is the basic leader?

There is one holding with both hands a SE-14r that stands out but the rest are pretty similar. I'm thinking the SE-14r is DT-F16 and from the normal ones the one with one hand in the air is the basic leader.

Edited by Andreu

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19 minutes ago, Andreu said:

I have a doubt maybe someone can think with me a bit here.

So in this expansion there is no personel slot but we can add a named/unique leader DT-F16 with its own miniature that takes the slot of the heavy weapon trooper (the DLT-19D troooper).

Therefore any aditional unit we buy after the first one will give us a extra mini to fool around (since we cannot field more than one DT-F16), right? This got me curious which one of the minis is that one and wich one is the basic leader?

There is one holding with both hands a SE-14r that stands out but the rest are pretty similar. I'm thinking the SE-14r is DT-F16 and from the normal ones the one with one hand in the air is the basic leader.

I think I'll be using the pistol one for DTF. The one doing the hand motion is a decent leader choice too. Might have that one for the normal leader and then pistol for a DTF list.

 

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Looking at what this unit brings to the table, 3-4 squads with DLTs and Configurable weapons is grossly overpowered.  Currently Rebels have nothing that can challenge them.  Adding a range 4 option to Pathfinders was a welcome addition that gives them a bit more flexibility.  Range 4 Death troopers are a wrecking ball... Range 2 DTs wipe squads with no effort.  I think FFG made a huge mistake adding a keywords to the config weapon... For the sake of balance I could see it being removed from the game altogether.

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47 minutes ago, Aurelus said:

Looking at what this unit brings to the table, 3-4 squads with DLTs and Configurable weapons is grossly overpowered.  Currently Rebels have nothing that can challenge them.  Adding a range 4 option to Pathfinders was a welcome addition that gives them a bit more flexibility.  Range 4 Death troopers are a wrecking ball... Range 2 DTs wipe squads with no effort.  I think FFG made a huge mistake adding a keywords to the config weapon... For the sake of balance I could see it being removed from the game 

 Let's see it on the table first. Everyone thought infiltrate would be broken. Everyone thought coordinated fire would be broken

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11 hours ago, Andreu said:

I have a doubt maybe someone can think with me a bit here.

So in this expansion there is no personel slot but we can add a named/unique leader DT-F16 with its own miniature that takes the slot of the heavy weapon trooper (the DLT-19D troooper).

Therefore any aditional unit we buy after the first one will give us a extra mini to fool around (since we cannot field more than one DT-F16), right? This got me curious which one of the minis is that one and wich one is the basic leader?

There is one holding with both hands a SE-14r that stands out but the rest are pretty similar. I'm thinking the SE-14r is DT-F16 and from the normal ones the one with one hand in the air is the basic leader.

I'd say the one with the pistol is the OG unit leader, and the one with his hand up is DT-F16. Both of them, as well as a DLT19D guy got pauldrons and higher rank markings on their left shoulder. The distinction between the OG Leader a and F16 comes from the fact that the model with hand up (F16) has a weapon that is slightly different than the rest of the squad.

Nonetheless, the paper sheet that comes in the pack always specifies which unit is the leader.

Like, contrary to popular belief, in speederbikes unit the one shooting backwards is not intended to be the leader :P

Obviously everyone just uses the model they like best, and as long as it is clear to the opponent, there's nothing wrong with it.  

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5 hours ago, Shanturin said:

I'd say the one with the pistol is the OG unit leader, and the one with his hand up is DT-F16. Both of them, as well as a DLT19D guy got pauldrons and higher rank markings on their left shoulder. The distinction between the OG Leader a and F16 comes from the fact that the model with hand up (F16) has a weapon that is slightly different than the rest of the squad

I agree with DT-F16 being the model witb the hand up, but my reasoning is she was shown to have some tactical acumen when She appeared in Rebels.  Knowing when to retreat and such.    

As to the rank markings on the left shoulder.. do you mean the ammo(?) pouches they have?

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On 3/22/2019 at 1:28 PM, thepopemobile100 said:

You're not wrong, but the high cost means that I doubt we'll see lists with more than 2 of these boys at most.

I mean, the absolute most you could see is 4 so sure 2 will probably be the most common amount you would see. 

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I played Rebels against Krennic, 3 DTs with DLT and config, 1 DT with leader and config, 3 Storms with medic, Eweb...

I got lit up 2 games in a row. 

There is no answer to 2 red, 4 black, and a white at Range 4 with suppression.  None.  Never mind 6 red and white at Range 2 with blast.

Having a unit that can punch this hard, with the best defense possible is a recipe for disaster... If it was a single commander, ok sure, but having the option to put 4 of these on the table is terrible design.

 

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2 minutes ago, Aurelus said:

I played Rebels against Krennic, 3 DTs with DLT and config, 1 DT with leader and config, 3 Storms with medic, Eweb...

I got lit up 2 games in a row. 

There is no answer to 2 red, 4 black, and a white at Range 4 with suppression.  None.  Never mind 6 red and white at Range 2 with blast.

Having a unit that can punch this hard, with the best defense possible is a recipe for disaster... If it was a single commander, ok sure, but having the option to put 4 of these on the table is terrible design.

 

Two games between two players is a tiny sample size. I've been beaten twice in a row by an Airspeeder list before, it doesn't make it broken.

DT's will be very vulnerable to snipers, and heroes that can pierce. In fact they are the most expensive single health trooper in the game.

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