Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
swarmer

Ardus Ix'Erebus VS Baron Zacareth

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Hi guys, i'm new, i haven't played a game (just assembled the minis XD), but i'm already working on my 200-points lists. Keep this in mind when you'll see them XD 

The first list is the Waiqar list, based on Ardus and blight

 Ardus IxErebus 1x1
Reaping Blade (?)
Ancient Technique 
total: 43


Reanimates  3x2
Deathcaller, Executioner or Necromancer (?)
Profane Banner Bearer
(Music... idk)
Support Carrion Lancer (or Front Line Carrion Lancer?)
Simultaneous Orders
total: around 50-55

Reanimate Archers  2x1
Combat Ingenuity 
Wind Rune 
total: 30

Reanimate Archers  2x1
Combat Ingenuity 
Wind Rune 
total: 30


Carrion Lancers 1x1
Flank Guards (?)
total: 20


Carrion Lancers  1x1
Flank Guards (?)
total: 20

total: around 195

The aim of this list is to use the synergy between the lancers, the archers and Erebus. I don't care i it's not too strong since i'm ust playing with friends, but it still should be affective and, especially, fun. I also tried to to make it not expensive: by buying a reanimated archers pack, a carrion lancers pack and a Waiqar infantry command pack, i should be able to assemble it.

This is the Daqan list, based on Baron Zacareth

Baron Zachareth 1x1
Shard of the Shadow Rune (?)
Lord of Subterfuge (or Nerekhall Training?)
total: [50]


Spearmen  2x2
War Crier 
Wind Rune (?)
Rallying Cornicen 
total: 45


Oathsworn Cavalry [46] 2x3
War Crier 
(equipment: idk... nothing?)
(heraldry: same...nothing? Don't have many points to use)
Piercing Strike (?)
total: 54


Rune Golems 1x1
total: 17

Rune Golems 1x1
total: 17

Rune Golems 1x1
total: 17

(or maybe, instead of 3 1x1 golem, a single golem and a 2x1 formation?)

Total: 200 with 3 1x1 golems, 194 with the other formation

 

The aim of this build is to use Baron Zacareth as much as possible. Golems use vitality tokens, while the spearmen and the cavalry remove the stuns with War Crier and Rallying Cornicen. Again, this is list is made to be fun to play. It's also meant to be played against the Waiqar list, so they should be on the same power level.

Again i tried to make the list as cheap as possible and i should be able to make it just by buying a Golem pack, a Daqan infantry pack, 2 Oathsworn cavalry pack and of course Baron Zacareth.

 

Tell me what you think, thank you all for the advices :)

Edited by swarmer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Tabletop Admiral is an excellent builder site. Here is your list cleaned up a bit. 

196/200
Ardus IxErebus [37] 1x1
Reaping Blade [4]
Ancient Technique [2]
Total Unit Cost: 43

Reanimates [35] 3x2
Deathcaller [5]
Profane Banner Bearer [5]
Support Carrion Lancer [6]
Simultaneous Orders [2]
Total Unit Cost: 53

Reanimate Archers [18] 2x1
Combat Ingenuity [6]
Wind Rune [6]
Total Unit Cost: 30

Reanimate Archers [18] 2x1
Combat Ingenuity [6]
Wind Rune [6]
Total Unit Cost: 30

Carrion Lancers [15] 1x1
Flank Guards [5]
Total Unit Cost: 20

Carrion Lancers [15] 1x1
Flank Guards [5]
Total Unit Cost: 20

 

I had a list of changes and then read your goal of not having to buy much to make the list. I’ll get back to you on any changes I’d make.

 

One suggestion is to use Deathcaller and support lancer in the reanimates. With simultaneous orders, that specific setup is called Deathcaller Disco. It’s a good way to cause wounds to high armor targets and provides a way to pressure an opponent to close with your reanimates. 

Edited by Church14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Church14 said:

Tabletop Admiral is an excellent builder site. Here is your list cleaned up a bit. 

I had a list of changes and then read your goal of not having to buy much to make the list. I’ll get back to you on any changes I’d make.

 

One suggestion is to use Deathcaller and support lancer in the reanimates. With simultaneous orders, that specific setup is called Deathcaller Disco. It’s a good way to cause wounds to high armor targets and provides a way to pressure an opponent to close with your reanimates. 

Thank you very much! You suggestions are good.

Do you think that wind rune are appropriate for the archers? And what about flank guards for the carrions? Maybe rank discipline is better?

What changes would you make without accounting budget?

This is the cleaned Zachareth list. I made two versions, changing the golem formation.

197/200
Baron Zachareth [38] 1x1
Shard of the Shadow Rune [7]
Lord of Subterfuge [5]
Total Unit Cost: 50

Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17

Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17
 
Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17

Spearmen [30] 2x2
War Crier [5]
Wind Rune [6]
Rallying Cornicen [4]
Total Unit Cost: 45

Oathsworn Cavalry[46] 2x3
War Crier [5]
Total Unit Cost: 51

Still unsure of Wind Rune on Spearmen. The second list has more upgrades. Still not sure of Raven Tabards and Rank Discipline on the cavalry (maybe Column Tactics is better?).

200/200
Baron Zachareth [38] 1x1
Shard of the Shadow Rune [7]
Lord of Subterfuge [5]
Total Unit Cost: 50

Rune Golems [17] 1x1
Total Unit Cost: 17

Rune Golems [28] 2x1
Tempered Steel [3]
Total Unit Cost: 31

Spearmen [30] 2x2
War Crier [5]
Wind Rune [6]
Rallying Cornicen [4]
Total Unit Cost: 45

Oathsworn Cavalry[46] 2x3
War Crier [5]
Raven Tabards [2]
Rank Discipline [4]
Total Unit Cost: 57
Edited by swarmer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I’ll let Daqan focused players answer for Daqan. 

 

-I’m hard pressed to ever take flank guards. Rank Discipline will likely do better. 

-Wind Rune is an interesting card for Reanimate Archers. With an initiative 2 reform, they can jump away before most anyone can catch them. Personally, I prefer Tempered Steel on Reanimate archers, but there are some who swear by Wind Rune and staple it to nearly everything. There is valid arguments both ways  

 

-Without changing much of your list, I would drop the Wind Runes to Tempered Steel, remove both Flank Guards, redo Ardus’ upgrades, and add a third Carrion Lancer. I would change Reaping Blade to Dimodian Blades and then swap from Ancient Technique to Ardus’ Fury. 

That list then requires 2 cores, LordV, Waiqar infantry command, and a Lancer pack OR 1 core, LordV, 1 infantry command, 2 Lancer packs, 1 Reanimate archer pack, and 1 Reanimate pack  

 

 

Also, if just playing with friends, just proxy things you don’t have. 

 

Edited by Church14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your waiqar build is on the right track. However, for the 3x2 reanimates you should focus it to one or two functions.  

If you want a golem slayer, use the deathcaller, support lancer, and simultaneous orders.  If you want something less support style, go with an executioner, raven standard, aggressive drummer, lingering dead.

For the archers, if you are looking for mobility then wind rune is fun, but you will be cutting the auto blight (dialed in surge) to use a skill.  It's also a massive point sink on a very fragile unit. 

The usual blight generator archers are just combat ingenuity sometimes paired with tempered steel.  A good damage combo is rank discipline with tempered steel.  And a final option is Fire rune and rank discipline for a double attack.

Carrion Lancers do two things, act as blockers, or find a flank on a blighted target and deal massive amounts of mortal strikes.  They run fine without anything, but get better with rank discipline if you want more reliable dice.

Ardus is as good as you can get him with the upgrades you have.  If you pick up lord Vorunthul, he comes with a card called dimodian blades, which makes ardus significantly more potent.

For the Daqan,

Baron Z is a cool, well rounded hero, and he will give those rune golems some much needed extra hp with his vitality.

Rune golems running solo are swingy on damage, but will be a pain for low threat units to kill.

The spearman rally battery is good.

The oathsworn is where you'll get the most damage from, so you want a solid build.  I am not a daqan player, but something like tempered steel, raven taberds, column tactics, would serve them well.  War crier is unfortunately a dud card, I've never seen anyone get it to work well.

Most importantly though, have fun, try things out, see what works, and try again.

This game is very deep, and will keep you busy finding new combos and unit synergies for a long time.

If you dont have every card, tabletop admiral is great for using proxies, since it's got good pictures of everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Church14 said:

changing much of your list, I would drop the Wind Runes to Tempered Steel, remove both Flank Guards, redo Ardus’ upgrades, and add a third Carrion Lancer. I would change Reaping Blade to Dimodian Blades and then swap from Ancient Technique to Ardus’ Fury. 

 

Thank you! Right now, i'll stick with the cheaper list. In the future maybe i will buy moar and moar stuff (really, i want to buy EVERYTHING! but sadly i can't) and i will buy Vorun'thul and another carrion too.

It's also a bummer that Vorunthul will never be realesed in italian :/

4 minutes ago, Jukey said:

Your waiqar build is on the right track. However, for the 3x2 reanimates you should focus it to one or two functions. 

For the Daqan,

Baron Z is a cool, well rounded hero, and he will give those rune golems some much needed extra hp with his vitality.

Rune golems running solo are swingy on damage, but will be a pain for low threat units to kill.

The spearman rally battery is good.

The oathsworn is where you'll get the most damage from, so you want a solid build.  I am not a daqan player, but something like tempered steel, raven taberds, column tactics, would serve them well.  War crier is unfortunately a dud card, I've never seen anyone get it to work well.

Most importantly though, have fun, try things out, see what works, and try again.

Thank you too! It's to hear that i did something good XD i can start playing with these formations, then adjust the details after some games.

Why is warcrier so bad? I thought it had a nice synergy with Baron Zachareth stun tokens

 

So do you think these two lists are balanced to play together?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble with war crier is that it requires a skill to activate.  Most units skill on their left dial (modifier/bonus action).  Due to how banes sequence, the stun is spent after the units dial is revealed, but before actions occur, so unless you have an inspiration token, the skill will always get stunned out, or the bane will be cleared, and now you have nothing to war cry.

It could work ok for throwing blight back at waiqar, but I've never seen it happen.

The two lists will be fun to bash together.  I think waiqar might have a slightly better build, but I forget how painful oathsworn are when using mostly just the core.

Let us know how it goes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jukey said:

The trouble with war crier is that it requires a skill to activate.  Most units skill on their left dial (modifier/bonus action).  Due to how banes sequence, the stun is spent after the units dial is revealed, but before actions occur, so unless you have an inspiration token, the skill will always get stunned out, or the bane will be cleared, and now you have nothing to war cry.

It could work ok for throwing blight back at waiqar, but I've never seen it happen.

The two lists will be fun to bash together.  I think waiqar might have a slightly better build, but I forget how painful oathsworn are when using mostly just the core.

Let us know how it goes.

Oh... didn't thought about that. I can see why warcrier is useless then.

Well i'll try a game with the "starter kit" first, then i'll start to modify and proxy my armies. Thank you for helping me understand this game better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing your lists.  @Church14 and @Jukey have covered the Waiqar quite a bit.  I have a couple of Ardus lists with similar concepts.  A lot of folks think he’s underpowerred, I feel a bit differently.  I feel that his abilities are to benefit his army, but he can still do some nasty things in combat with Dimodian Blades and Ardus Fury.  In our game last night, he did 10 damage against Lord Hawthorne- except his defense was 1 due to the three surges I spent on the swing using the Duskblade in the nearby Death Knight unit.  10 damage against defense 1 = SPLAT!  That would have taken out a 2x1 Thresher unit, Ravos, etc...  Just sayin’...

Since I tend to play Daqan the most, I’ll try to offer some feedback on your unit as well:

 

The Cavalry block is nice, but you can probably swap out Rank Discipline for Moment of Inspiration since you already have a couple of re-rolls.  Raven Tabards is a great card that I think is undercosted.  It provides a critical capability in winning the charge vs. other cavalry.  The other card I use in these instances are Bull Pennon to maximize the morale effect.  If I do this, then I go with Visored Helms for my equipment slot to balance out the fact that I may get charged before I can respond.  I feel that winning the charge is more important than the extra morale, but I guess it depends upon what type of army you’re running.  You may also consider Wind Rune for your equipment slot.  It provides them with a lot of flexibility especially since you can reform after you move regardless of the green runes.  That reform can set you up nicely since your charge slows down when you have to turn.

Lord Hawthore is also a good character for units which use 2x3 cavalry since he can reform them at the start of the game to be a 3x2 giving them the extra damage from Threat 3.  

I do like Baron Z the best of the Daqan commanders since he buffs up the Rune Golems quite nicely.  I enjoy playing Golems because the figures look cool, they’re an iconic unit, and they can hit real hard at times.  The players in our group swear they’re broken because they’ve been on the receiving end of one too many 9-12 damage shots.  I’ve tried Fire Rune and Wind Rune on my Golems and I’m convinced Wind Rune is the best.  It can be an early move at I3 that puts you in combat with someone even if you can’t attack that turn.  It still pins them or forces them to take it into account in their planning.

When I use Baron Z, I tend to make him into a either a ranged platform or a melee specialist.  I tend to use Fortuna’s Dice as my Artifact to ensure that I’m getting 2-3 hits from each swing.  If you want to use him as the Lord of Subterfuge, you may consider either using no artifact or using Fortuna’s or Reaping Blade to help modulate your attacks.  I haven’t used Shard yet, but I’m thinking you’d want to pair that with Nerekhall or Greyhaven to ensure it’s triggering as much as possible.

Another option for your force would be to replace the cavalry with crossbowmen to create more of a bunker list and use the Golems to guard their flanks, act as blockers, and charge whoever makes it through.

Thanks for sharing!!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 6:35 AM, Church14 said:

One suggestion is to use Deathcaller and support lancer in the reanimates. With simultaneous orders, that specific setup is called Deathcaller Disco. It’s a good way to cause wounds to high armor targets and provides a way to pressure an opponent to close with your reanimates. 

Metered march is really good with the disco.  It lets you move up to just within range and pop off both the Carrions blight and then the death caller.

You can then do it again at init 3 or 4 (depending on what banner you take).

Combo'd with meter march, I pretty much always get off at least 2 shots, if not 3 with the death caller.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good call, especially against heroes.  Metered March is one of those cards that looks kind of lame when you’re first starting out but is really good after you play the game a few times and realize the importance of range manipulation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for the inputs! You are really helping me!

On 3/23/2019 at 7:43 PM, sarumanthewhite said:

Another option for your force would be to replace the cavalry with crossbowmen to create more of a bunker list and use the Golems to guard their flanks, act as blockers, and charge whoever makes it through.

This one got me thinking. I chose 2X2 spearmen 2X3 oathsworn because it was the only formation that could let me use 1 music and 2 champion upgrade. But since warcrier won't work, i can replace it with something else and change completely half of the list?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So with Daqan, you can replace War Crier with Lance Corporal for a 1 pt. difference.  It creates a much large impact though as you can cross colors on your dials.  For example, Spearmen could wait until I8, dial in a 4 move, have Aggressive Cornicen so that it becomes a charge and then dial in a red hit to increase their damage output.  Oathsworn can’t use this upgrade though.  I find that I leave their Champion slot open quite a bit as Forged In Battle takes a little too long for the Brutal to kick in and the character upgrades are quite expensive.  Also, their Skill action is tied to their movement and so when they’re in combat, you can’t use it.

You’ll find that as you try to pull together the list that it changes shape based on what combos you find.  Also, try to think about how the force will lay out on the board.  Do you have any ranged damaged?  If not, you need to get across the board in a hurry.  How are you going to do that?  If you have Crossbowmen and Archers, how will you deal with a force charging at you?  I have a list called “Hawthorne Balanced” that I use quite a bit.  It’s exactly that, it’s got Spearmen, Crossbowmen, Cavalry, and (of course), Hawthorne.  It can deal with a wide range of threats, but like all lists, it has some weaknesses.

Experiment with what seems fun and don’t try to put every combo in the same list (I have that problem!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well surely i want to use Baron Zacareth and rune golems. I absolutely want to use them at their fullest. I don't know about other ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was my first list as well- Baron Z and Rune Golems.  I was looking for something to compliment those two pieces and settled on a big Spearmen unit (folks here use the term, “Spearstar” after Deathstar).  This is what I ended up with.  You can tweak this a bit replacing Fortuna’s Dice with Reaping Blade and spending the additional points on Fire Runes for the Golems.  I’ve also tried Greyhaven Runelore in place of Nerekhall to make him melee focused instead of ranged.  I throw the Stun tokens on the Spearmen since with Cursed Signets it just means you lose one figure.  When I play Fire Runes, I replace the Lance Corporal with Greyhaven Channeler to manage the runes a bit more.  With Baron Z using Nerekhall and the Rune Golems using Fire Runes, you can stand off a bit.

The problem with Fire Runes is that the Golems can roll blanks and then you don’t look like a genius :(  I call the list, “This is Sparta” for obvious reasons.  I think I like the version with the Wind Runes on the Golems better since it gives them a bit more flexibility, particularly to move early (I3) and pin someone.  The Golems with Baron Z can really take a hit, though.

 

Good luck...

 
Baron Zachareth [38] 1x1
Fortunas Dice [6]-
Nerekhall Training [4]-
Remove Unit [48]
Rune Golems [28] 2x1
Wind Rune [6]-
Remove Unit [34]
Rune Golems [28] 2x1
Wind Rune [6]-
Remove Unit [34]
Spearmen [59] 3x3
Lance Corporal [6]-
Shield Wall [5]-
Front Line Rune Golem [7]-
Cursed Signets [2]-
Aggressive Cornicen [5]-
Remove Unit [84]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that's a lot of golems! XD

Making some experiment with the builder. If i keep Baron Zachareth at 49 points and 3 single rune golems (51 points), i can either:

1) use Spearmen 2x2 with Lance Corporal, Wind Rune and Rallying Cornicen plus 2x3 Oathsworn Cavalry with Column Tactics and Raven Tabards. I can also make the golems 1x1+2x1 to give Tempered Steel or Master Crafted Weaons to both the golems and the cavalry

2) use Spearmen 2x2 with Lance Corporal, Wind Rune and Rallying Cornicen plus Heavy Crossbowmen 3x1 with no upgrades plus Heavy Crossbowman 3x1 with no upgrades (or again compact the golems to free 6 points)

3) use the same Spearmen plus 3x2 Crossbowmen to free 6 points (12 with 2x1 golems)

4) that's it i guess, because cmbining cavarly and crossbowman costs a lot of points XD

 

so i think i should stick with number 1)... unless the crossbowmen are really strong and can work even without upgrades

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...