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2 engines cannot occupy the same place at the same time, the cec app doesn't enforce it, and you fell into the trap of "designing" a non buildable ship (which engine are you going to put in location x).  And you still lost hard on maneuverability.  

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33 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

2 engines cannot occupy the same place at the same time, the cec app doesn't enforce it, and you fell into the trap of "designing" a non buildable ship (which engine are you going to put in location x).  And you still lost hard on maneuverability.  

You can build engines with the combined power output of multiple different ones. Not only that, but different engines put the thrusters in different configurations. As such the engines don’t necessarily overlap anyway. So what you have is banks of engines. For example, the YZ-900 has four main engines in two stacked pairs, four secondary engines also in stacked pairs, and six tertiary engines in three stacked pairs mounted between the primary engines, for a total of fourteen engines all in the rear of the ship. So yes, they can occupy the same location by stacking them on top of one another, between one another and along side one another. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

You can build engines with the combined power output of multiple different ones. Not only that, but different engines put the thrusters in different configurations. As such the engines don’t necessarily overlap anyway. So what you have is banks of engines. For example, the YZ-900 has four main engines in two stacked pairs, four secondary engines also in stacked pairs, and six tertiary engines in three stacked pairs mounted between the primary engines, for a total of fourteen engines all in the rear of the ship. So yes, they can occupy the same location by stacking them on top of one another, between one another and along side one another. 

Stacked is not the same location.  You're thinking so 2 dimensionally.  Youre geometric thinking isn't that strong anyway.  The conqueror engines are already a 3D array by themselves, with a gap in the middle.  A gap that was completely filled by the ht-2200 cargo and thrusters, which completely blocks the space where many of the others you selected would occupy. The ghtroc escape pods block the gap between the conqueror engines and the rear cargo pods.  Engines could conceivably be installed in the cargo pods but that wasn't an option given by the app... so yeah the place where most of the engines you selected were already completely blocked by other stuff. 

The first ship you did had 1 other array in the gap between the conqueror engines which is legit but that can only be filled once.

And you still lost hard on maneuverability.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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13 hours ago, penpenpen said:

"Form" and "function" are weaksauce excuses for a lack of armament. At the best of times they are luxuries you can add once you have enough guns.

If you need to maneuver, it's because there are directions you don't have guns. If you need to move anywhere it's because your guns don't have enough range. Always remember that root cause of every deficiency on your ship is always that there's not enough guns, and thus, should be addressed in that manner.

The only possible excuses for having parts of your ship not covered in guns is if they fold away to reveal hidden guns, and even then, ideally, your hidden guns should be hidden behind other guns.

"But penpenpen!" you complain in a defeatist whine "What if there's so many guns in my ship that I can't get around to fire them all?"

The solution is easy. Bring a gun to shoot the trigger of the guns you cant reach.

Some would claim that you should leave some space for missiles, but that is just an attempt to preemptively disarm you; instead, you mount guns everywhere, and then mount missiles to your guns (unless your guns have space for more guns).

Jim?  Is that you?

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17 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Stacked is not the same location.  You're thinking so 2 dimensionally.  Youre geometric thinking isn't that strong anyway.  The conqueror engines are already a 3D array by themselves, with a gap in the middle.  A gap that was completely filled by the ht-2200 cargo and thrusters, which completely blocks the space where many of the others you selected would occupy. The ghtroc escape pods block the gap between the conqueror engines and the rear cargo pods.  Engines could conceivably be installed in the cargo pods but that wasn't an option given by the app... so yeah the place where most of the engines you selected were already completely blocked by other stuff. 

The first ship you did had 1 other array in the gap between the conqueror engines which is legit but that can only be filled once.

And you still lost hard on maneuverability.

The diagram is only a two dimensional orthographic image. How do you know that the engines on that design aren't stacked one above the other? You don't. So 😝

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5 hours ago, GandofGand said:

I love that everyone is having fun with this, that was my intent!

here's my Wackiness; did you say guns? ALL THE GUNS!

1760 7-Pack

You left out the HT-2200 engines, which have an ion cannon on them. Shame on you, that's kind of gutless pacifist hippie nonsense that got heavy turbolasers banned from residential areas!

#corelliaisspacetexas

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9 minutes ago, GandofGand said:

Well i wanted to be able to get the thing OUT of trouble as quickly as it got INTO trouble...and the HT-2200 is SLOW...

But pen's logic is that with enough guns you will eliminate the trouble and not have to worry about how slow you are

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The diagram is only a two dimensional orthographic image. How do you know that the engines on that design aren't stacked one above the other? You don't. So 😝

because if you've ever looked at 3D perspective picture of the ht-2200 you can see it's back end is so tall (so much thicker than a yt series) it would fill the entire space leaving no room to stack engines above or below it.  BTW just found this on wookieepedia so 😝 back at you

200?cb=20080519203153

Edited by EliasWindrider

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44 minutes ago, GandofGand said:

Well i wanted to be able to get the thing OUT of trouble as quickly as it got INTO trouble...and the HT-2200 is SLOW...

 

32 minutes ago, warchild1x said:

But pen's logic is that with enough guns you will eliminate the trouble and not have to worry about how slow you are

2wuvcv.jpg

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

because if you've ever looked at 3D perspective picture of the ht-2200 you can see it's back end is so tall (so much thicker than a yt series) it would fill the entire space leaving no room to stack engines above or below it.  BTW just found this on wookieepedia so 😝 back at you

200?cb=20080519203153

No, they wouldn't. More to the point, they can be stacked on top of other engines. Not only that, but other engines can fit to either side of them. IT's not like you're putting the entire back end of the HT 220 onto your ship. You're only putting the engines themselves and docking port, and the HT-220 engines themselves are small enough to fit to either side and on top of the upper engines of the Suronian Conqueror.

Guri_Stinger_Exterior_012408.gif

In fact, that's exactly where the diagram puts them--on top of the Suronian Conqueror engines. And the center of the back end of the Suronian Conqueror, certainly leaves room for even more engines, docking ports, or what have you. So, if I want to combine different engines together, I will. 😝

 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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best as i can remember... not sure how they generate.

Manufacturer: Corellian Engineering Corporation
Model: YT-series
Scale: Starfighter
Length: 45m
Skill: Space Transports; YT-series
Cost: 286800(new) / 71700(used)
Crew: 1-2
Passengers: 6
Cargo: 270 Tonnes
Consumables: 6 Months
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x1
Hyperdrive Backup: x6
Nav Computer: Yes
Manueverability: 3D
Space: 8
Atmosphere: 800/1600kmh
Hull: 6D
Shields: 1D
Sensors:
    Passive: 20/0D
    Scan: 40/1D
    Search: 60/2D
    Focus: 2/3D

Equipped With:
    Docking Port (left)
    Escape Pod
    Docking Port (right)
    Escape Pod
    Escape Pod

Weapons:
    Laser Cannon
        Fire Arc: Turret
        Crew: 1
        Skill: Starship Gunnery
        Fire Control: 2D
        Space Range: 1-3/12/25
        Atmosphere Range: 100-300/1.2/2.5km
        Damage: 4D
    Arakyd Concusssion Missile Launcher (16 Missile Magazine)
        Fire Arc: Front
        Crew: 1
        Skill: Missile Weapons: Concussion Missiles
        Fire Control: 3D
        Space Range: 1/3/7
        Atmosphere Range: 50-100/300/700m
        Damage: 8D
    Ion Cannon
        Fire Arc: Turret
        Crew: 1
        Skill: Starship Gunnery
        Fire Control: 3D
        Space Range: 1-3/7/36
        Atmosphere Range: 100-300/700/3.6km
        Damage: 4D

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Posted (edited)
On 3/25/2019 at 2:28 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

No, they wouldn't. More to the point, they can be stacked on top of other engines. Not only that, but other engines can fit to either side of them. IT's not like you're putting the entire back end of the HT 220 onto your ship. You're only putting the engines themselves and docking port, and the HT-220 engines themselves are small enough to fit to either side and on top of the upper engines of the Suronian Conqueror.

Guri_Stinger_Exterior_012408.gif

In fact, that's exactly where the diagram puts them--on top of the Suronian Conqueror engines. And the center of the back end of the Suronian Conqueror, certainly leaves room for even more engines, docking ports, or what have you. So, if I want to combine different engines together, I will. 😝

 

recall that I said

On 3/23/2019 at 7:18 PM, EliasWindrider said:

Stacked is not the same location.  You're thinking so 2 dimensionally.  Youre geometric thinking isn't that strong anyway.  The conqueror engines are already a 3D array by themselves, with a gap in the middle.  A gap that was completely filled by the ht-2200 cargo and thrusters, which completely blocks the space where many of the others you selected would occupy. The ghtroc escape pods block the gap between the conqueror engines and the rear cargo pods.

and your design most certainly had 5he ht-2200 back end so... the only engines you selected that fit on your design are the conqueror plus the ht-2200 cargo and thrusters.  Which is why I selected the ghtroc engines despite being ugly.

Like I said your geometric thinking isn't that strong.  And either your reading comprehension or memory are lacking too. 😝 the app lets you select multiple features that can't possibly fit together on the same ship.

Besides which you still lost hard on maneuverability. Besides which you failed to make a ship faster than ???mine???  which was your stated goal.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

recall that I said

and your design most certainly had 5he ht-2200 back end so... the only engines you selected that fit on your design are the conqueror plus the ht-2200 cargo and thrusters.  Which is why I selected the ghtroc engines despite being ugly.

Like I said your geometric thinking isn't that strong.  And either your reading comprehension or memory are lacking too. 😝 the app lets you select multiple features that can't possibly fit together on the same ship.

Besides which you still lost hard on maneuverability. Besides which you failed to make a ship faster than ???mine???  which was your stated goal.

My “geometric thinking” is just fine. 

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image.png.829ddea2fc3da4ca9d89572addf64dff.png

Manufacturer: Corellian Engineering Corporation
Model: YT-series
Scale: Starfighter
Length: 27 meters
Skill: Space Transports; YT-series
Cost: 238,400 (new) / 59,600 (used)
Crew: 1-2
Passengers: 4
Cargo: 25 tonnes
Consumables: 6 Months
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x1
Hyperdrive Backup: x6
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 0D+2
Space: 6
Atmosphere: 600/1,200 km/h
Hull: 3D
Shields: 1D
Sensors:
    Passive: 20/0D
    Scan: 40/1D
    Search: 60/2D
    Focus: 2/3D
Weapons:
    Dorsal & Ventral Quad Laser Cannons

        Fire Arc: Turret (1 Ventral and 1 Dorsal)
        Crew: 1
        Skill: Starship Gunnery
        Fire Control: 2D
        Space Range: 1-3/12/25
        Atmosphere Range: 100-300/1.2/2.5 km
        Damage: 5D
    Arakyd Concussion Missile Launcher (16 Missile Magazine)
        Fire Arc: Front
        Crew: 1
        Skill: Missile Weapons: Concussion Missiles
        Fire Control: 3D
        Space Range: 1/3/7
        Atmosphere Range: 50-100/300/700 m
        Damage: 8D
    Twin Light Turbolaser Cannon
        Fire Arc: Front
        Crew: 1
        Skill: Starship Gunnery
        Scale: Capital
        Fire Control: 1D
        Space Range: 1-3/12/25
        Atmosphere Range: 100-300/1.2/2.5 km
        Damage: 3D
    Two Laser Cannons
        Fire Arc: 1 Turret Right, 1 Turret Left
        Crew: 1
        Skill: Starship Gunnery
        Fire Control: 2D
        Space Range: 1-3/12/25
        Atmosphere Range: 100-300/1.2/2.5 km
        Damage: 4D
 

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And now, the FFG stats.

I know, turbolasers are not allowed for SIL 4 vessels, but it's not my fault, it's rpggamer.org.

XS-4200 ESCORT FREIGHTER

  • SIL 4 • SPD 3 • HDL -1
  • Defense: Fore 1 • Port - • Star - • Aft 1
  • Armor: 3 • ThresholdsHT 20 • SS 12

Hull Type/Class: Freighter/XS-4200; Manufacturer: Corellian Engineering Corporation; Hyperdrive: Primary: Class 1, Backup: Class 6; Navicomputer: yes; Sensor Range: short; Ship’s Complement: one pilot, one co-pilot engineer; Encumbrance Capacity: 40; Passengers: 4 (gunners); Consumables: six months; Price/Rarity: 238,400 credits (R)/8; Customization HP: 2.

Weapons: One dorsal & one ventral quad laser cannon turrets (Fire Arc All; Damage 5; Critical 3; Range [Close]; Accurate, Linked 3).

  • One port & one starboard light laser cannon turrets (Fire Arc Forward, Port and Aft OR Forward, Starboard and Aft; Damage 5; Critical 3; Range [Close]).
  • Forward mounted concussion missile launchers (Fire Arc Forward; Damage 6; Critical 3; Range [Short]; Blast 4, Breach 4, Guided 3, Limited ammo 16, Linked 1, Slow-firing 1).
  • Pair of hull mounted light turbolaser cannons (Fire Arc Forward; Damage 9; Critical 3; Range [Medium]; Breach 2, Linked 1, Slow-Firing 1).

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