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This can’t be right...

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The thing is, the Jedi have easy points of comparison: Luke, Vader, and the v1.  The v1 in particular is SO similar to the baseline un-modified Aethersprite chassis that it's near-identical (indeed, probably just a shade better, because it can reposition and focus, and still keep its force, and it has the dial to clear the stress.  But it's a point cheaper.

 

Accordingly, they do not, for the most part, hold up.

 

I'm not calling DoA at all, they're still great fun, and they're still going to be a going concern as a faction because the ARC is good and not horribly screwed by variance like most things nowadays.

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8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The thing is, the Jedi have easy points of comparison: Luke, Vader, and the v1.  The v1 in particular is SO similar to the baseline un-modified Aethersprite chassis that it's near-identical (indeed, probably just a shade better, because it can reposition and focus, and still keep its force, and it has the dial to clear the stress.  But it's a point cheaper.

 

Accordingly, they do not, for the most part, hold up.

 

I'm not calling DoA at all, they're still great fun, and they're still going to be a going concern as a faction because the ARC is good and not horribly screwed by variance like most things nowadays.

Welcome to the slot tax... We Scum have been paying it to be able to equip our nearly non existent (fully on small bases) Illicits. Aethersprites get to pay it for the astromech slot. /cheers

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

You can easily put an RZ-1 on a peg and be done with it. 

For casual and if both people are okay with it yes.

Officially for tournaments is another matter. Some may agree, heck lore wise Lulo only flew a RZ-1. 

Heck if they really wanted to they could have done the Resistance Transport/Pod in wave 2 instead of the A and saved the A for wave 4.

Edited by KiraYamatoSF

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1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

I'm actually a little surprised the generics weren't 26. I'd be pretty confident throwing 8 5hp ships at 8 TIEs or Z's. Not saying it's broken, but getting +1hp and a better action bar than a Z for only 2 pts more is really solid.

If you compare the i2 Gold Trooper with the i2 Tala squadron, they're the same 25 points. And yeah, the V-19 has a better action bar, but that dial is _way_ trickier to use. 

I do feel like both the Z-95 and the V-19 fill the same niche as being cheap missile carriers. Once the Z-95 comes to the Republic, I am wondering what will make them different enough to cause me to choose one over the other.

 

(My dream is an Epic match where I have 6 Torrents and 6 Headhunters with 2 ARCs protecting a Republic gunship. FFG, make this happen plz.)

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23 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The thing is, the Jedi have easy points of comparison: Luke, Vader, and the v1.  The v1 in particular is SO similar to the baseline un-modified Aethersprite chassis that it's near-identical (indeed, probably just a shade better, because it can reposition and focus, and still keep its force, and it has the dial to clear the stress.  But it's a point cheaper.

 

Accordingly, they do not, for the most part, hold up.

 

I'm not calling DoA at all, they're still great fun, and they're still going to be a going concern as a faction because the ARC is good and not horribly screwed by variance like most things nowadays.

Exactly.  You don't need to use the mystic arts to work out if they're good or not.  Simple reading skills are all that is required.

Maybe points will fix it in July but currently it's 'ARC: The Faction'.  It might even be 'Generic ARC: The Faction'

 

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37 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The thing is, the Jedi have easy points of comparison: Luke, Vader, and the v1.  The v1 in particular is SO similar to the baseline un-modified Aethersprite chassis that it's near-identical (indeed, probably just a shade better, because it can reposition and focus, and still keep its force, and it has the dial to clear the stress.  But it's a point cheaper.

 

Accordingly, they do not, for the most part, hold up.

 

I'm not calling DoA at all, they're still great fun, and they're still going to be a going concern as a faction because the ARC is good and not horribly screwed by variance like most things nowadays.

Since we're seeing zero Inquisitors, and the Jedi seems even weaker... But perhaps the B is the right choice for a Jedi Knight? Like a little Generic X wing with a force?

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3 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Since we're seeing zero Inquisitors, and the Jedi seems even weaker... But perhaps the B is the right choice for a Jedi Knight? Like a little Generic X wing with a force?

See OP, 54 points for a force point on what is normally a 43 point chassis seems not great. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Since we're seeing zero Inquisitors, and the Jedi seems even weaker... But perhaps the B is the right choice for a Jedi Knight? Like a little Generic X wing with a force?

It gets slightly better with the 7B title on but it's still not great.

The examples I've used in other discussion were Mace Windu and Anakin.  Without 7B Mace is a bad Seventh Sister, with 7B he becomes a bad Luke Skywalker (same cost, same stats, worse Initiative & ability).  Without 7B Anakin is ~Grand Inquisitor, with 7B he's an expensive Kylo Ren, or put another way he's 16 points more than Luke for +1 Initiative and an arguably better ability... but 16pts!

None of these comparisons make the Aethersprite look good.

Edited by TheCeilican

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It is a high skill cap ship for sure. It is not easy plug and play like some others.

But declarations of doom and gloom seem premature. The Republic has lots of synergistic abilities, and as a squad I think can elevate above the sum of its parts. I’m willing to give it a try at least.

But I think people trying to fly it like an X-wing will be disappointed. But a commander Jedi with 2-4 clones? Seems pretty decent to me.

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I2 ARC-170: 3/1/6/3 at 42 points.

I2 TIE Punisher: 2/1/6/3 at 38 points.

Oh but Punishers get boost so that's almost as good as a 3-dice primary, extra 2-dice rear arc and better dial isn't it 😕

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4 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

Oh but Punishers get boost so that's almost as good as a 3-dice primary, extra 2-dice rear arc and better dial isn't it 😕

Well one is a brawler and the other is an ordinance delivery platform. they aren't perfect comparisons considering that the punisher has tons of ordinance options and a sensor slot that the ARC just wont ever get.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hippie Moosen said:

Well one is a brawler and the other is an ordinance delivery platform. they aren't perfect comparisons considering that the punisher has tons of ordinance options and a sensor slot that the ARC just wont ever get.

Plus the Punishers linked actions are amazing for a ship of its type.

Pure stat comparisons don’t make sense, unless you also consider the role. Why I think comparisons to v1’s are inherently more useful than to T-65/70’s for the Aethersprite. Which is why I feel the Jedi Knight is overpriced, but most of the named pilots are fine/ good. My time with Inquisitors and Sister informs this.

Edited by millertime059

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1 minute ago, Hippie Moosen said:

the punisher has tons of ordinance options and a sensor slot that the ARC just wont ever get.

...and the ARC has crew and astromech slots that the Punisher just won't ever get, so I don't see the strength of your argument. Tons of ordinance also costs more points.

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28 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

But I think people trying to fly it like an X-wing will be disappointed. But a commander Jedi with 2-4 clones? Seems pretty decent to me.

Yeah I think that's what it comes back to, faction identity. FFG is using these weird points costs to push a specific faction identity, which is named Jedi with generic clones. If you try to fly something funky like named clones with generic Jedi, the points punish you. 

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2 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

I keep thinking that the V-19 feels about 2 points high. But it's priced the same as a Z-95. 

And I don't think it's worse than the Z-95. 

So I'm not sure what. Apparently my brain just wants the V-19 to be super cheap and snipey.

With the mining guild tie, it feels like z-95s should be a little cheaper.  Or at least should have a white barrel roll...

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5 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

...and the ARC has crew and astromech slots that the Punisher just won't ever get, so I don't see the strength of your argument. Tons of ordinance also costs more points.

My point was mainly that the two ships being compared, aren't really comparable. One is a beefed up tie bomber, and the other basically an obese x-wing. Stat lines are similar but their general roles, dials, action bars, and upgrade slots are way different. On top of that they aren't in the same faction, which could be a factor in how they are costed as well.

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5 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Yeah I think that's what it comes back to, faction identity. FFG is using these weird points costs to push a specific faction identity, which is named Jedi with generic clones. If you try to fly something funky like named clones with generic Jedi, the points punish you. 

Yeah. And if the faction identity is Jedi General leading clone fleet, or clone troopers sacrificing to buff their fellow clones/ Jedi General (these are two similar, but diametrically opposes list theorums) then I’m fine with that.

May be a bit sad that generic Jedi won’t see much play. I’m sure I’ll give them a try though, always do.

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10 hours ago, Tvboy said:

The I2 ARC-170 with a talent slot is 42 points. 

The I3 also with a talent slot is 47.

5 points for just 1 initiative? Also 1 point over a T-65 buys +3 health and a rear arc at the cost of just 1 agility? It feels like they made a mistake with the cost on the I2 generic. It makes it feel like you’re  paying a ton of points to take any of the other pilots over the I2. 

What am I missing that is making the I2 generic so cheap or the I3 generic so expensive?

Edit: Also let’s talk about Jedi Knights and the 7b config. A I3 Jedi with 7b is 54 points. A red squadron vet with the same stats is 43. Is a single force charge and the option to spend that charge for FTC really worth 11 points on an I3?

It looks like the developing team learned nothing from 1st edition. The power of I3 < I2. 

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1 minute ago, Marinealver said:

It looks like the developing team learned nothing from 1st edition. The power of I3 < I2. 

In the current meta I would actually disagree. We are seeing enough I2 swarms right now that having an I3 swarm with a similar amount of beef is actually a pretty big advantage over them. 

But that advantage isn't worth it if you're paying 5 points per ship to go from 2 to 3. I feel like the I2 needs to come up 1 point and the I3 needs to come down 1 point. 

Or they just need to fix Trick Shot and give it a scaling points cost to ship size already because I think the I3 ARC is mostly paying for the privilege of taking Trick Shot. 

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Just now, Tvboy said:

In the current meta I would actually disagree. We are seeing enough I2 swarms right now that having an I3 swarm with a similar amount of beef is actually a pretty big advantage over them. 

But that advantage isn't worth it if you're paying 5 points per ship to go from 2 to 3. I feel like the I2 needs to come up 1 point and the I3 needs to come down 1 point. 

Or they just need to fix Trick Shot and give it a scaling points cost to ship size already because I think the I3 ARC is mostly paying for the privilege of taking Trick Shot. 

The meta could never change the smile curve dynamic of pilot skill initiative power. If I3 would have given you an advantage over I2 then you would be way better off with I5 or I6 as you would pretty much have the same advantages over I2. You shouldn't see a point increase until I4 and by then it shouldn't be more than a couple of points. I3 should be the start for a talent slot and the additional points to equip said slot would be enough to justify no point increase from I2. 

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7 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The meta could never change the smile curve dynamic of pilot skill initiative power. If I3 would have given you an advantage over I2 then you would be way better off with I5 or I6 as you would pretty much have the same advantages over I2. You shouldn't see a point increase until I4 and by then it shouldn't be more than a couple of points. I3 should be the start for a talent slot and the additional points to equip said slot would be enough to justify no point increase from I2. 

If I’m reading this correctly, why would I ever take the I2 if I can get the I3 for the exact same cost, with a talent slot option? Matching initiative with a different squad member?

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1 minute ago, Marinealver said:

The meta could never change the smile curve dynamic of pilot skill initiative power. If I3 would have given you an advantage over I2 then you would be way better off with I5 or I6 as you would pretty much have the same advantages over I2. You shouldn't see a point increase until I4 and by then it shouldn't be more than a couple of points. I3 should be the start for a talent slot and the additional points to equip said slot would be enough to justify no point increase from I2. 

Eh but I5 is not way better off against I2 than I3 because they are paying significantly more points to get the same advantage as I3. Ideally you want a matchup where your initiative is just slightly higher than your opponents because then you get all the advantages of higher initiative without the opponent getting the advantage of having significantly more health and guns than you. 

Also they should not be charging points for empty talent slots unless they make all talent upgrades free. This isn't 1.0 where talents are super powerful, pretty much all the talents in 2.0 have negligible effects, have a difficult extra requirement like bullseye, or are overcosted. 

I3 does confer a tangible, if matchup specific, advantage in this metagame, but it needs to be appropriately costed, which is not 0 points and not 5 points. 

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1 hour ago, Rossetti1828 said:

I2 ARC-170: 3/1/6/3 at 42 points.

I2 TIE Punisher: 2/1/6/3 at 38 points.

Oh but Punishers get boost so that's almost as good as a 3-dice primary, extra 2-dice rear arc and better dial isn't it 😕

Ordnance ships always have odd pricing.  They probably aren't a good baseline for comparison.  Nor is the very-cheap 104th ARC, for that matter...

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