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Cloaker

The Impact of Y-Ion Wings & 5 RZ-2s on the New Factions

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Posted (edited)

Undoubtedly, there will be great excitement and a lot of table play with the CIS / Republic factions coming into Hyperspace this week and for the rest of this first hyperspace season. 

What is intriguing is how much the effectiveness of the new factions will inhibited by double attack, secondary arc capable Rebel Beef Ion spam. Obviously, the Roger Rogers in particular are going to suffer due to the effects of Ion allowing Focus only. Their sharing of Calculates will be essential. 

The Double mod faction Jedi having to deal with range one shots from turrets could be mildly challenging. Great players should be able to selectively engage though. 

The Resistance A-Wing Renaissance might be short lived. Those I5 Jedi and Anakin could easily push Tali and L'ulo out of the current meta. But the game in 2.0 seems to really favor ships with secondary arc attacks overall so they might hold them off. 

It just seems unusual that FFG dropped Veteran turret gunner, y-wing chassis, and Ion Turret shortly before Wave 3. Wonder what they might know that we don't? 

Thinking aloud, as usual....

Edited by Cloaker

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Posted (edited)

I'm concerned about the Separatists. Vultures could be spammed, but also the amount of shots being outputted a turn with the VTG Ys and RZ2 As time on target being so high on top of being efficient with adv optics. Doing 3 damage to a 2 agility ship isn't hard at all with 4+ ships in 1 turn and potentially even 6 damage isn't that hard to imagine either meaning 2 dead Vultures very quickly. Even if you don't kill the second one, the calculate token stack among the friendly vultures could be very well depleted and return fire is terribly poor. The points will matter a lot and there's going to be a discovery period of what upgrades are actually worth it on Vultures, if any at all honestly. Hyenas maybe the eventual key to carrying any munitions (or upgrades) just because of their higher hull and using the Vultures as escorts via networked calculations. 

Edited by RStan

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15 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

Obviously, the Roger Rogers in particular are going to suffer due to the effects of Ion allowing Focus only.

I think they prefer it to just dying, which is what a Dorsal Turret would do to them in just about any situation they get ionized ;)

 

4xARC is a bit of a boogeyman already, speaking of beef. I think it'll do alright vs. either list you mention here. Enough health to withstand the Y's, need 2 ion tokens to get ionized, have a back arc... It'll be interesting to see, though.

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30 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

4ARC is a bit of a boogeyman already, speaking of beef. I think it'll do alright vs. either list you mention here. Enough health to withstand the Y's, need 2 ion tokens to get ionized, have a back arc... It'll be interesting to see, though.

I so love the ARC-170. And I'm so bummed they wouldn't fit it in for Rebels Hyperspace. 

That half point threshold for odd numbered health ships is pretty advantageous. And again, ships with secondary firing arcs are worlds better in 2.0 where time on target is a difference maker. 

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Well if you watched the live stream they mentioned that the vulture would be dethroning the Tie/ln as the cheapest ship in the game and that 5 Ships all with multiple upgrades and one of the ships being a reasonably elite non vulture was gonna be a thing for the separatists. Time will tell but the Seps are intended to be the Definitive swarm faction. How well that works out we will have to see, but it seems promising. The lowest grade generic Vulture clocking in at 20 points means you can buy 2 or 3 of them to back fill for some beefy elites. We will know when we finally see the points on Thursday. Honestly my biggest gripe is no points at this time. I understand them not wanting to release points too early but 2 days before the models hit the shelves I dont think would result in the models being proxied into the dirt before they are even released. I know alot of people have mentioned pre proxy problems were an issue in 1st because as soon as they spoiled any of the ship cards you had cost as well.

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23 minutes ago, Endureil said:

The lowest grade generic Vulture clocking in at 20 points means you can buy 2 or 3 of them to back fill for some beefy elites.

I think they'll be cheaper, honestly. You've gotta pay extra for Grappling Struts anyways.

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3 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

I think they'll be cheaper, honestly. You've gotta pay extra for Grappling Struts anyways.

20 points for the Trade Fed Drone is still allot of wiggle room in list building points wise.

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Please keep in mind that 20 points is just a number "I" pulled out of the air. And is based solely on the Live stream comments, because its a coupe points lower then the 23 for an Academy Pilot TIE/Ln. I for one will be slightly annoyed if the basic low end vulture comes in at 21 or 22 points because while cheaper then an Academy Pilot, they kinda played up the cheapness of vultures so only a 1 or 2 point difference will be disappointing to me, and I will feel they over hyped how cheap they are by a large margin. I also feel that dropping down to 2 agility from 3 should be worth at least 3 points since their action bar is comparable, and I feel the TIE/ln has a slightly better dial.  

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Posted (edited)

I don't know if the Ion Turret is a massive additional threat to Droids.  When you're firing at 2/3 agility ships you spend most of the time just chipping a damage and not actually dealing Ion anyway.  If anything the sheer volume of lasers coming back at the Y-Wings should be something that the 5Ys need to be scared of as their 1 Agi ships are going to burn down real fast.

The A-Wings are a different beast.  But I don't think many people actually own 5 A-Wings and they're out of stock most places I look.

Edited by TheCeilican

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Meh 5 Z2 A wings is not exactly burning up any major tournaments. Its fun, its Flashy but Ultimately its only got 20 damage points, 10 hull and 10 shields hiding behind 3 agility. I have alot of experience flying Z2s and while they are alot of fun and great little flankers they are very susceptible to one bad round of Blanks on Green dice ending them. I have also found that because so much of their survivability is tied to being able to execute unexpected maneuvers to get to places your opponent could not cover that if you get stuck with a Crittial, assuming you don't pop, they tend to be crippling. Engine problems, panicked pilot etc these all basically might as well have been a Direct hit in my experience since you die the following round due to your movement being predictable. Combine this with only 2 dice attack and they can struggle to down alot of more durable foes before the inevitable green dice flop gets you.

 

Time will tell if the double tapping Ion turret Ys will be a problem. They have shown up to some major events at this point but while doing well have yet to dominate anything. Please note I only count MAJOR events with 64+ people. They may be burning up some of the small local events. But my experience has been that probably has to due with player skill differences in a little pool. My Local shop has about 20 X wing players with 15 of them being VERY consistent (showing up for an average of 3 out of 4 gaming nights a month). We have 2 killers that are just noticeably better then pretty much everyone else at the shop, and 6 or 7 not so great players that quite frankly I would bet my house on the killer flying 4 academy pilots vs and OLD PRE nerf proton torpedo Alpha stike list like super luke + Wedge and such from the original 2.0 meta. Because those guys even being down to a ridiculous level will just win. the 10 ish mid line players would most likely win with that level of advantage in list quality but I have seen the killers fly some terrible Jank lists in our leagues and still manage to finish at the top or very close to it despite several other people flying the hot "Meta" lists. Its what happens when you put some one who is playing in the NBA on the court with a bunch of college or even high school level players. Your average NBA player would look like Michael Jordan/Lebron James in a high school game. Bump him up to College and he will look good but probably not just total and complete domination. Put him on the NBA and hes average and fighting with everyone else for court time. The big events tend to have enough of the NBA level guys show up that either they guy with the strongest list, or the most luck that day wins, of if you have one of the rare great ones he takes the victory.

At this point I am getting worried that people are starting to confuse efficient and good with over powered. I have seen this problem in other miniatures games that have been using an APP to live manage game up dates for several years. To be very specific privateer press's Warmachine/Hordes game has been doing it for several years. And before that people learned how to deal with some of the problem lists, once they went to we can just change things by adjusting the APP suddenly any list that starting getting any traction in the tourney scene had massive nerf out cries instead of  people learning to counter play it. So far the Devs have been doing a decent job and ignoring all the nerf cryers, and waiting until the see the old MK2 problems where then they looked at the top 8 for nationals and 6 of them are the same faction and have the same Warcater/Warlock leading the list, and going hmm maybe this guy is in need of a nerf.

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People are confusing "what I saw somebody cry about" with "overpowered".  And when the people they saw crying about something were only crying because somebody else was crying it becomes a ridiculous vicious circle where one person had a legitimate concern and 50 people complained about it.

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23 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Undoubtedly, there will be great excitement and a lot of table play with the CIS / Republic factions coming into Hyperspace this week and for the rest of this first hyperspace season. 

 

Do we know when the new factions are Hyperspace legal?

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We just had 5 RZ-2s win the Austin Hyperspace. I've flown them too (I did buy 5 because I love the dial) and they are incredible fun. So I chose them as one of the two archetypes because they are emerging somewhat. 

Y-Ions seemed to be an obvious choice for feedback also. It's the ship with the highest increase of usage since the points adjustment, and the CIS are coming into their playground. 

I am just interested in how these new factions will diversify and compete in what is already perhaps the most varied meta we've ever had in the 3 years I've been playing. 

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37 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

Presumably.

Well, this is wishy washy. I'll reformulate.

Has FFG specifically stated when the Republic and Seperatist factions will be legal to play in the current Hyperspace Trials?

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16 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Well, this is wishy washy. I'll reformulate.

Has FFG specifically stated when the Republic and Seperatist factions will be legal to play in the current Hyperspace Trials?

They're listed with the other faction options for Hyperspace in the official app. Other than that we wait for the points/slots pdfs.

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40 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

They're listed with the other faction options for Hyperspace in the official app. Other than that we wait for the points/slots pdfs.

Hm. Sounds like they'll be in as of release, then. 

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