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Dueling Question

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1 minute ago, Franwax said:

Wouldn’t “communicate with the Kami” fall under the ritual Commune with spirits? Then pretty much anyone with 3xp to spare can do it 😛

hear and talk to 😛 

the "non-shugenja" can only get some vague answers (as with commune with spirits) while a Shugenja can have a discussion with the Kami (though it isn't a verbal one!)

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5 hours ago, Franwax said:

Wouldn’t “communicate with the Kami” fall under the ritual Commune with spirits? Then pretty much anyone with 3xp to spare can do it 😛

For a shugenja,  Commune is a discussion; spoken communication both ways.

For non, it's a question from the mortal and some omen from the kami...

"Oh, Void Kami, how many murderers live here in this village?"
Shugenja gets, "3 have murder in their hearts, and 3 more have murdered"
Non-shugenja gets a cricket chips thrice on their lap, then bolts off.

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Posted (edited)

If nobody minded, I'd like to return on topic, if not the OP. 

As I've been reading the rules and this most informative forum for a week or so, I couldn't fail to notice a somewhat fomented duel controversy, arousing my interest. 

While studying the rules thoroughly, following question arose:

I do understand that the most dangerous occurrence in a duel, seemingly,  is allowing oneself to be blown in a finishing manner. Therefore it would occur to try and avoid this eventuality by all means. During a Iaijutsu Duel, if one is "[...] drawing [one's sword] no earlier than their first turn", why wouldn't one stare oneself into compromise, if at all possible,  during the first initiative phase to prevent any legal finishing blow happening against oneself, not even with a Iaijutsu kata? And, of course, why wouldn't one strive for being striven to the brink in the beginning? 

I do apologise for my missing any possible earlier discussion of this matter due to my inattention or plain laziness, or worse, for the intrinsic fallacy invalidating the whole argument.  

Edited by Grimmerling

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53 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

I do understand that the most dangerous occurrence in a duel, seemingly,  is allowing oneself to be blown in a finishing manner. Therefore it would occur to try and avoid this eventuality by all means. During a Iaijutsu Duel, if one is "[...] drawing [one's sword] no earlier than their first turn", why wouldn't one stare oneself into compromise, if at all possible,  during the first initiative phase to prevent any legal finishing blow happening against oneself, not even with a Iaijutsu kata? And, of course, why wouldn't one strive for being striven to the brink in the beginning? 

You can't unmask out of turn, so you'd start the duel compromised (which is bad, because you can't keep strife results), and finishing blows can be triggered by unmasking as well. You could argue that technically the first time you became compromised or unmasked was before the first turn already, but I doubt that will fly at most tables.

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8 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

You could argue that technically the first time you became compromised or unmasked was before the first turn already, but I doubt that will fly at most tables.

It is true tho. If you become Compromised during Initiative then you effectively immunize yourself against Finishing Blows at the cost of wasting your Unmask for the scene. Very useful if you enter the duel with high Strife or if you want to min-max your Strife eco: if you spend your first turn readying your weapon and Unmask at the start of your second turn then you can burn away all the Strife from the first and second turn Staredown (so you can bid as many Strife as you want for free Initiative) and 1+2 Strife from the duel countdown (this one can be pretty huge). 

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35 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

It is true tho. If you become Compromised during Initiative then you effectively immunize yourself against Finishing Blows at the cost of wasting your Unmask for the scene. Very useful if you enter the duel with high Strife or if you want to min-max your Strife eco: if you spend your first turn readying your weapon and Unmask at the start of your second turn then you can burn away all the Strife from the first and second turn Staredown (so you can bid as many Strife as you want for free Initiative) and 1+2 Strife from the duel countdown (this one can be pretty huge). 

This is seriously not worth hashing out IMO, but finishing blows can explicitly happen out of turn. If we're arguing technicalities, who or what says it can't be done during initiative?

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41 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

This is seriously not worth hashing out IMO, but finishing blows can explicitly happen out of turn. If we're arguing technicalities, who or what says it can't be done during initiative?

Why, it can, of course; I never questioned that. But, it would violate the iaijitsu dueling regulations (not the rules), as I've quoted already; Premature Evisceration, so to speak. 

1 hour ago, AtoMaki said:

[...] bid as many Strife as you want [...]

Up to your Focus, of course. 

2 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

You can't unmask out of turn, [...]

Do you mind pointing me to the rule, it eludes me.

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12 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

Why, it can, of course; I never questioned that. But, it would violate the iaijitsu dueling regulations (not the rules), as I've quoted already; Premature Evisceration, so to speak. 

Why would it violate dueling regulations? The duel has already started.

 

14 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

Do you mind pointing me to the rule, it eludes me.

Unmasking requires doing something. Unless an explicit exception is made, you can't do anything out of turn. There's nu such exception for unmasking.

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12 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Why would it violate dueling regulations? The duel has already started.

 

Unmasking requires doing something. Unless an explicit exception is made, you can't do anything out of turn. There's nu such exception for unmasking.

1) "Iaijutsu duels are highly ritualized: combatants wear ceremonial clothes, only the katana and the wakizashi are permitted, and each warrior must begin with their blades sheathed, drawing them no earlier than their first turn. When fought to the first strike, the duel objective is to inflict a critical strike on the opponent. When fought to the first blood, the duel objective is to inflict a critical strike of severity 5 or higher on the foe." 

2) I do understand that is your interpretation. Alas, a citation would be far more helpful. 

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53 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

1) "Iaijutsu duels are highly ritualized: combatants wear ceremonial clothes, only the katana and the wakizashi are permitted, and each warrior must begin with their blades sheathed, drawing them no earlier than their first turn. When fought to the first strike, the duel objective is to inflict a critical strike on the opponent. When fought to the first blood, the duel objective is to inflict a critical strike of severity 5 or higher on the foe." 

Good point.

54 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

2) I do understand that is your interpretation. Alas, a citation would be far more helpful. 

That's not really how rules work. If everything that is implicitly factual needs to be made explicit, rulebooks would have more pages than the Encyclopedia Britannica.

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43 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

That's not really how rules work. If everything that is implicitly factual needs to be made explicit, rulebooks would have more pages than the Encyclopedia Britannica.

But in this case there is a sidebar specifying that point on page 30. When in structured time (= initiative turn), you can Unmask at the beginning or end of your turn...

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19 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

This is seriously not worth hashing out IMO, but finishing blows can explicitly happen out of turn. If we're arguing technicalities, who or what says it can't be done during initiative?

Finishing Blow can be only performed out of turn, while performing it in the Initiative Phase would be out of phase. Technically speaking :D

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On 3/24/2019 at 12:05 AM, Hida Jitenno said:

This is fairly covered in the Core Rulebook, sidebar p. 232:

"Symbolism of a Katana: Only samurai are allowed to wear the katana, and further, only dedicated warriors commonly do so in Rokugan - most courtiers do not bother to keep their katana on their person at all times, their lighter and more convenient wakizashi proving their status as samurai. Thus, openly displaying the long sword tells the world at large that the wielder is a dangerous individual who knows their way around a swordfight."

You carry a katana, you are expected to be able to use it because that's what you're telling the world. In previous editions, that was the same.

Courtiers and non-bushi, in previous editions, could still learn the Iaijutsu skill, and if they carried katana, would also be expected to fight their own duels. Nothing about the rules that I recall said "if you're not a bushi, would cannot fight an iaijutsu duel."

Thank you for pointing that out. But leave it to Fantasy Flight to stick that rather important nugget of information in an easily overlooked sidebar. I agree with you and other posters that a non-bushi may decide to carry a katana. But once they do, they are forever after considered to be bushi and expected to fight their own duels. Otherwise, shugenja, courtiers, noble monks, and artisans are expected to have a champion fight in their place in formal duels. The Crane are notorious for this practice.

12

 

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