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william1134

What is the point of double modifications on tie interceptors?

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9 minutes ago, william1134 said:

There is nothing good in particular and what they do want is priced out the stratosphere due to their 3 agility.

 

Bah!

 

What are Khiraxz fighters to do with their three modifications? They'd both be better off 1 point cheaper with only one mod slot, which is normally Afterburners on higher initiave pilots!

 

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Yeah, this really isn't unique to Interceptors, or even just modification slots. Pretty much every upgrade slot (besides maybe crew) is less effective when you get a second one of them, unless there is a particularly good upgrade that uses multiple slots (Barrage Rockets). This is most noticeable with munitions/cannon slots.  It would be interesting if the second upgrade in a slot you already have one, cost 1 less.

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Interceptors are pretty cool and fun but I think a majority of ships in extended are getting very little attention from ffg at the moment with all the new stuff and the hyperspace stuff, I’m sure around rerelease time they will focus a little more thought into them

plus we are getting point and upgrade changes every 6 months so eventually they will micro manage it into an interesting place, or at lease try to

soontier is still awesome..,poor poor turr 

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3 hours ago, Warlon said:

For double afterburners of course.

Sadly not duplicatable, but afterburners are a really good choice. The fact you can pack 5 Alpha Squadron Pilots with Afterburners is kinda scary, and makes for a nice alternative (albeit not a hyperspace legal one) to 5 x TIE/sk.

I agree that at the moment they have limited options for modifications. But then there really aren't many at all in the game yet....

  1. Shields, Hull, and Stealth Device are too expensive to justify on anything but aces and frankly even then you're better off revelling in just how stupidly cheap Soontir Fel is for a manouvrable I6 pilot rather than trying to actually make him survivable. 
  2. Ablative Plating, Calibrated Laser Targeting, Engine Upgrade, Synchronised Console, Tactical Scrambler, and Spare Parts Canisters can't be equipped to a  TIE interceptor
    • Randomly Ablative Plating is equipped to Alpha Squadron Pilots on their Quick Build card. Go figure. 
  3. Advanced SLAM and Munitions Failsafe can be equipped but won't do anything.
  4. That leaves Afterburners, Electronic Baffle, and Static Discharge Vanes.
    • Afterburners is an easy sell.
    • Electronic Baffle - burning off stress is nice in theory but a point of damage is 1/3 of the ship's hit points. I wouldn't consider it unless you also had a hull upgrade, which makes the whole caboodle prohibitively expensive (See [1])
    • Static Discharge Vanes look nice in theory since passing off an ion token is great and hugging targets at range 1 is quite feasible in manouvrable interceptors, but since you're likely to be using autothrusters a lot, an Interceptor spends a lot of its time stressed and unable to use them.

In theory, Shield Upgrade/Afterburners is nice. I think the double modification slots was kept because of the old Royal Guard TIE thing - although ironically none of the Royal Guard pilots remain in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we got them back - at which point a TIE interceptor specific "Royal Guard Refit" modification or modification/configuration not a million miles from the Delta-7b-specific cards might be rather nice. 

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Another issue of course is how that all future releases of our existing ships, which includes our beloved tie interceptor will include nothing new. Judging from what is coming out with the new factions we may need to buy out of faction to get some of the new toys.  (even though they said that we wouldn't need to do so just remember what they said about ever having the prequal factions..)

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31 minutes ago, william1134 said:

Judging from what is coming out with the new factions we may need to buy out of faction to get some of the new toys.

We'll have to wait and see. One thing which gives me some hope that there's a degree of sense being applied is the Decimator expansion:

swz43_spread.png

Technically, no card in there is new. However, if you're not buying out of faction, you couldn't get 0-0-0 and BT-1. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. 

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Yes, this still rankles with me. That 0-0-0 seems incredibly useful and well as I don't have scum I don't have it. 

I have pretty much all the ships for imperial/rebels and I don't really want to have to re-buy them but I do still want them to have new toys and not be left behind by the new factions... its a bit of a difficult thing to solve.

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4 minutes ago, UberMunchkin said:

The double mod slot is a taunt basically.  It's saying "Oh look, this would be awesome if only there was anything worth the points to put in these slots". :)

Not as much as the triple mod on the K Fighter and the fact that Engine Upgrade HAS A K FIGHTER IN THE PICTURE.

 

I really really wish they'd given the K Fighter red boost instead of white barrel roll.

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13 hours ago, william1134 said:

There is nothing good in particular and what they do want is priced out the stratosphere due to their 3 agility.

Soontir with pred is arguably the best filler ship in the game. medium-high floor (keep from popping), high-ish ceiling.

But the Interceptor that was a solid 1.0 platform, especially for pint night games is not good at all. The double mod 'slots' are pointless on a three hull no shield ship that faces all the new, well upgraded foes.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Sadly not duplicatable, but afterburners are a really good choice. The fact you can pack 5 Alpha Squadron Pilots with Afterburners is kinda scary, and makes for a nice alternative (albeit not a hyperspace legal one) to 5 x TIE/sk.

I agree that at the moment they have limited options for modifications. But then there really aren't many at all in the game yet. I think the double modification slots was kept because of the old Royal Guard TIE thing - although ironically none of the Royal Guard pilots remain in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we got them back - at which point a TIE interceptor specific "Royal Guard Refit" modification or modification/configuration not a million miles from the Delta-7b-specific cards might be rather nice. 

5 Alpha with burners is meh to me. Maybe a substitute for 5 Strikers, but that's not burning up the mats either that I can see.

5 Y-Wings with Ion turret and Vet gunner? Yes, if I had them. Well, no, not my style of fun.

5 RZ2A-Wings with Heroic? Yes, if I had them.

5 TIE/Interceptors? No, let's allow FFG to try that again before I'm in.

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2 hours ago, william1134 said:

I have pretty much all the ships for imperial/rebels and I don't really want to have to re-buy them but I do still want them to have new toys and not be left behind by the new factions... its a bit of a difficult thing to solve.

Yeah, there's really no right answer to that. Somebody loses no matter how they try to do it.

No new cards in OT ships? Sad for people who want the new cards.
New cards in OT ships? Sad for veterans who don't want to re-buy.
No new cards? Sad for everyone, new stuff is fun, game stagnates.
Cards sold directly, in some kind of card pack? Sad for retailers, who have to make space for additional SKUs that have much smaller margins.

With second edition, the conversion kits and squadron packs ensure everybody is caught up in general, but it still remains to be seen how second edition shakes out long term. It's worth mentioning that Armada has the same business model X-Wing 1.0 had, but never forced players to card-chase as hard as 1.0 did, so there's a sliding spectrum of options here and not just a hard binary. 

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Not as much as the triple mod on the K Fighter and the fact that Engine Upgrade HAS A K FIGHTER IN THE PICTURE.

I really really wish they'd given the K Fighter red boost instead of white barrel roll.

I hold out a fool's hope for a Kihraxz box with, like, 3 Config options reflecting how customizable their lore says they are.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I agree that at the moment they have limited options for modifications. But then there really aren't many at all in the game yet....

Yeah. And remember, the X-Wing development cycle is like a year and half or two years long - eg, they said on stream that wave 3 was finalized and put into production six months ago. 

Which just means a lot of stuff we have now, was designed a long time ago, with knowledge of other stuff being designed that we still don't know about.

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6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

We'll have to wait and see. One thing which gives me some hope that there's a degree of sense being applied is the Decimator expansion:

swz43_spread.png

Technically, no card in there is new. However, if you're not buying out of faction, you couldn't get 0-0-0 and BT-1. We'll have to wait and see, I guess. 

I too am hopeful this means we could see new cards trickle into the old factions.

Passive sensor is only in wave 4 prequel packs so far. Hopefully the others get access to it in a future wave because it looks pretty good for any system carrying low initiative generics who want a lock.

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I find it interesting that people say shield upgrade and stealth device are too expensive.  They have always been expensive upgrades back in v1, but Soontir with Stealth Device was a staple for so long.  And back in v1, Stealth Device was 4pts.  v2 fine-tuned the cost of everything to fit within the 200pt list building architecture.  Technically speaking, Stealth Device and Shield Generator are the same price in v2 for a 3-Agility ship as they were in v1.  The key difference is ships with less agility get a discount.   

The biggest downside to Stealth Device now is that *any* damage will turn it off, as opposed to v1’s setup of having to hit by an attack.

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5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Not as much as the triple mod on the K Fighter and the fact that Engine Upgrade HAS A K FIGHTER IN THE PICTURE.

I really really wish they'd given the K Fighter red boost instead of white barrel roll.

Maybe they'll get a Khiraxz-only modification? One can hope, but I can't see how they'd distribute it. I agree, a red boost would have been a good call. Missed opportunity.

12 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I find it interesting that people say shield upgrade and stealth device are too expensive.  They have always been expensive upgrades back in v1, but Soontir with Stealth Device was a staple for so long.  And back in v1, Stealth Device was 4pts.  v2 fine-tuned the cost of everything to fit within the 200pt list building architecture.  Technically speaking, Stealth Device and Shield Generator are the same price in v2 for a 3-Agility ship as they were in v1.  The key difference is ships with less agility get a discount.   

Same here. Seems worth it to me, especially on an ace, but maybe also on generics. 4 health seems to go a long way on TIE strikers, so giving 4 health to a TIE interceptor with 3 agility has the potential to be even better. Seems like it should cost around 8 points (which it does). Of course, variance can see you blank out and essentially waste 8 points, so you have to determine how risk-averse you are.

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59 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I find it interesting that people say shield upgrade and stealth device are too expensive.  They have always been expensive upgrades back in v1, but Soontir with Stealth Device was a staple for so long.  And back in v1, Stealth Device was 4pts.  v2 fine-tuned the cost of everything to fit within the 200pt list building architecture.  Technically speaking, Stealth Device and Shield Generator are the same price in v2 for a 3-Agility ship as they were in v1.  The key difference is ships with less agility get a discount.   

The biggest downside to Stealth Device now is that *any* damage will turn it off, as opposed to v1’s setup of having to hit by an attack.

Stealth Device was actually only 3 points back in 1e. 

Besides that, I think the bigger difference that discourages people is that in 2e, it's way, way harder to protect your Stealth Device. 

The card itself may be largely unchanged, and 2e Fel (for example) + Predator + Stealth Device still comes out to the equivalent of 2 points cheaper than 1e Fel with PTL and Stealth Device, but Fel has lost far more efficiency than just those 2 1e points would imply. 

His ability just isn't anywhere near as good as 1e, he's lost the ability to take focus and evade as an action and evade no longer adds an extra result. Most importantly, he's lost 1e Autothrusters. 

That's a huge stack of mods. In 1e, you didn't have to anything special to virtually guarantee 4 evades as a minimum so long as you kept to range 3. Even a crap rol like 2 eyes and 3 blanks would have got you there. 4 evades is sufficient to stop most normal attacks in the game, especially at range 3. All you had to do was evade, PTL and focus. It didn't matter if you'd maneuvered straight into their arc. So long as you were at range 3, you were virtually guaranteed safety.

Granted, with that many green dice the changes to evade tokens don't really make a huge difference ,but in 2e the likely margin of evades has dropped by exactly 1 thanks to no autothrusters, and unfortunately that puts the Interceptor in damage territory. Rolling that same crap 2 eyes and 3 blanks will only get you a maximum of 3 evades, and that's only if you were able to jump the hoop of getting someone in bullseye. At range 3, that's way, way harder than just pushing the PTL button when you realise you made a mistake. And if you're good enough to consistently do that, you're good enough to arc dodge and not need extra evade dice in the first place. Blocking 3 hits isn't enough. Not when Proton Torpedoes are out there. 

The change to evades does start to make a difference at closer ranges. It means that the absolute max cap on evade results at range 1-2 is 4, and that's only with a decent roll (at least 3 paint) and the difficult to obtain double token behind it. 

 

It's just too dependent on variance now. And for 8 points, there are better options to take. Usually by upgrading another ship that makes Fel less of a threat by comparison. It's always better to just not get shot than it is to waste points trying to mitigate damage when you do. 

 

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I've flown both Kihraxzes and Soontir with Hull/Shield.  I mean, it does what it looks like.  More toughness for fewer ships.

I had a 3x Kihr-Aces list, each with Hull/Shield and either Afterburners (TBCobra, Graz) or Stealth Device (Viktor Hel).  8 HP behind 2 green dice is tankier than you'd expect, when everyone has some sort of a defensive ability. Of course, it helped that when I played it, I was twice able to one-shot Strikers... 😬

With Soontir, you basically have to kill him twice.  The same 2 damage that'd get you have points doesn't give anything.  The original kill with 3 damage only gets half.  Now, whether the decent-enough effect is really "worth" the cost is a harder question.  It's surely not top-table-large-tournament good.  I think it's kinda like Proton Rockets on a TIE Advanced x1.  It's nice to have, and provides a useful effect, but the cost is scary.

//

I do have hope, however, that there will someday be some sort of cheap, nice perk double-mod-slot upgrade.  I know it won't exist, but something like Heroic for 2 points as a double-mod would probably be fun.

//

Another hope: maybe they'll knock down the prices of Hull/Shield/Stealth Device someday.  Knock every price down a bracket (so 5/6/6 on an Interceptor), and reduce the 0-agility ones to 1/2/2, for example.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, william1134 said:

Yes, this still rankles with me. That 0-0-0 seems incredibly useful and well as I don't have scum I don't have it. 

I have pretty much all the ships for imperial/rebels and I don't really want to have to re-buy them but I do still want them to have new toys and not be left behind by the new factions... its a bit of a difficult thing to solve.

 

6 hours ago, svelok said:

Yeah, there's really no right answer to that. Somebody loses no matter how they try to do it.

No new cards in OT ships? Sad for people who want the new cards.
New cards in OT ships? Sad for veterans who don't want to re-buy.

IMHO, one decent option is to offer the old ships with (at a minimum) new livery.  The TIE/ln could have easily come with Inferno Squadron markings, and some people (like me) would pick it up just for aesthetic reasons.

I realize that does get a little tricky for the monochrome Empire, but even then, there are options.  For example, I'd like to see the TIE Defender come with yellow prototype markings.

I'll never have 0-0-0 because I'm not buying anything just for cardboard.

Overall, as the game has already proven, the cardboard is disposable.  If they want me to buy new stuff, the ship itself is critical.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Of course, it helped that when I played it, I was twice able to one-shot Strikers... 😬

 

You are a bad, bad man.

P.S. Hey FFG, striker profile pic when?! You killed Runewars, so I kinda want my favorite ship as my avatar.

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