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Thoughts on TSN player cards

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2 minutes ago, Antimarkovnikov said:

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Good News! The "other" word exception means that they don't take up the Dunwich investigator's 5 cards from OTHER classes slots!

Hah, that's a good point. I'm about 95% sure they intended to provide clarity that they do take up a Dunwich slot because those are "up to 5 cards..." whereas others like Carolyn and Finn have "up to 5 other cards..." and instead their bad wording made it the exact opposite.

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I will say Scroll of Secrets is probably a more useful include in a Daisy deck than Medical Texts.  I mean, I would immediately replace them with Encyclopedias, but at least you can get some use out of the card,  I like my Daisy decks with 4 tomes and 2 Research Librarians.

I also think you are underplaying the usefulness of .45 on a 4 fight investigator.  Attacking with a 5 is nice, but attacking with a 6 useful as well.

Also Meat Cleaver can work fine on Agnes, especially if she has Cornered.  The question is if its worth it or not.

Edit: Forgot to include I agree with most everything else.

Edited by Jobu

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28 minutes ago, Allonym said:

Hah, that's a good point. I'm about 95% sure they intended to provide clarity that they do take up a Dunwich slot because those are "up to 5 cards..." whereas others like Carolyn and Finn have "up to 5 other cards..." and instead their bad wording made it the exact opposite.

Carolyn doesn't say "other".  If it truly means what it says, only Carolyn and Norman have to deal with the dual classes.

Edited by CSerpent

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Just now, CSerpent said:

Carolyn doesn't say "other".  If it truly means what it says, only Carolyn and Norman have to deal with the dual classes.

Carolyn does in fact say "other", her book version was a misprint (and ArkhamDB is a mistake), as specified by a developer response and, I believe, subsequently corrected on her "official" release in TCU (I don't have access to my cards right now so I can't actually check the physical TCU card myself).

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12 minutes ago, Allonym said:

Carolyn does in fact say "other", her book version was a misprint (and ArkhamDB is a mistake), as specified by a developer response and, I believe, subsequently corrected on her "official" release in TCU (I don't have access to my cards right now so I can't actually check the physical TCU card myself).

Neither do I, but according to cardgamedb, yes, you are correct.

Poor Norman.

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1 minute ago, CSerpent said:

Neither do I, but according to cardgamedb, yes, you are correct.

Poor Norman.

I think that, with enough time and therapy, he'll be able to move past the pain of having a disadvantage when taking level 0 Scroll of Secrets 😛

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Something Worth Fighting For

Guardians finally have something to celebrate - a level 0 Elder Sign! The cost is 1 higher, the protection is 1 lower, but it doesn't take up the Accessory slot and it doesn't cost the 3 xp which can be used to buy a Police Badge to fill said slot. Rita and Silas are a tad put out, but they still have their teddy bears.

 

Crack the Case

Resources for clearing a location and gaining xp? Works for me! And you get to share some with your Guardian buddy to pay for his weapons so you can keep picking up clues. Wait . . . 0 cost and fast? Or you know, Roland can just take it and pay for some more bullets himself. 

 

Intel Report

Seekers get free resources with clues, Rogues get free clues with resources. Not AS free - it isn't fast. But they can pay a bit more and snag them in that location you had to run away from because you are a Rogue and not a Guardian. Not as totally awesome as the previous two, but definitely solid.

 

Sign Magick

0 xp Book of Shadows without the recharge bump. Seems reasonable. I don't play many Mystics so I'm not sure how awesome it is to trade that Hand slot for another Arcane slot. I do recall there have been times when I wanted to have that second Shriveling or Rite of Seeking in play already rather than waiting for one to run out of uses. So good, but not as great as the previous three.

 

Banish

For 1 xp and 2 resources send a non-elite enemy to Time Out. Definitely more useful than just evading them, but it requires having a place to put them where they won't bother anyone, which won't really matter anyway if they are a Hunter. This sounds a bit too campaign and scenario specific to be more than fair.

 

Meat Cleaver

Investigators Gone Bad! The synergy with Peter Sylvestre should be obvious. The potential for pretty much everyone who can take both follows. Only Wendy doesn't become outright dangerous, but the thought of Little Orphan Psycho is just so nice. The big winner though is Carolyn. Take horror, heal horror, get resources to pay for Talent boosts, lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Scroll of Secrets

Less than playing Mystics I've never gone with a deck manipulation build, so I'm not sure how useful this is, particularly for an action. Perhaps as a lead in to the upgraded versions, but otherwise this doesn't really interest me.

 

Tennessee Sour Mash

For 3 resources you get two +2 Will boosts for treachery tests and one +3 fight action. That makes it a bit above average, though not enough to be a must have.

 

Enchanted Blade

After looking at Enchanted Blade I am not impressed. Certainly it is great for The Circle Undone campaign. And sort of useful in another campaign. Beyond that, meh. It is a Knife that costs an extra resource to play, and instead of being discarded you get 3 uses of the enhanced +2 Fight/2 damage action and get to keep it afterwards. Umm. Okay. It is certainly no Machete. Or the pseudo-Retaliate of Survival Knife. Or even the team action of an upgraded Blackjack. I won't toss it in the trash, but outside of a campaign where you NEED a relic weapon for your Guardian it is purely second rate.

 

.45 Thompson

Who doesn't like excessive firepower? No, really, who? It is definitely begging a Bandolier to show up, and even more for an upgraded Bandolier. And, once again going in a dark direction, is a +2 Fight/2 damage weapon for Carolyn. Medic? Gun Moll! Especially since she can fill a Stick to the Plan with Custom Ammo and Extra Ammo and pile up the resources by tormenting poor Peter Sylvestre to boost her Keen Eye.

 

Grisly Totem

A 3 cost accessory for a 1/turn committed card boost. Well, if you can commit a card every turn, sure. If not, that value is dropping for every turn you don't actually use it. Which is going to hit zero sooner than it should.

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Scroll of Secrets can combo with Alyssa (better for discarding than drawing, but it can work that way too), Joe (gun and Elder Sign abilities),  and Wendy's Amulet (return an Event she just played right back into her hand).

Edited by CSerpent

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7 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

Scroll of Secrets can combo with Alyssa (better for discarding than drawing, but it can work that way too), Joe (gun and Elder Sign abilities),  and Wendy's Amulet (return an Event she just played right back into her hand).

Scroll of Secrets can't target Joe's hunch deck.

With Alyssa, it's a pretty specific situation where you've spent the resources and action to get and use Alyssa and put the doom on her to bury a card, and then you're additionally worried about drawing your entire deck (or reshuffling your deck, I suppose) and are willing to spend a further two actions and resource just to discard that card. I would say that's pretty much only a huge draw power deck and the only thing so awful that you need to devote that many resources, actions, deck slots and cards to counter would probably be the Doomed line. But they do certainly both apply. I wonder if we'll see "bottom of the deck" as a specific mechanic or gimmick - similar to one of the Syndicate themes from the old Call of Cthulhu LCG.

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Gah, right about Joe.  That seemed so fitting, with it being in his cycle.  But I guess it would be incredibly powerful if it did work with his hunch deck.

I guess really what it is, is draw insurance, replacing the draw action at a cost but guaranteeing you won't get something bad.  Actually better later in a campaign where you might have accumulated additional weaknesses.

Edited by CSerpent

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I'm building an cluever Marie deck, and Sign Magick seems like a potential worthwhile option. I was not sold on it to be completely honest when seeing the cards (there are plenty of great mystic hand items, let alone flashlights)... but then I found I might need it when I noticed that Guiding Stones takes an Arcane slot. 

Guiding Stones, Arcane Insight, and Suggestion? Yes please! (Or Feed the Mind for extra cards to commit to investigations).

I think MOST of the time I'd prefer the hand, but it has applications. 

Edited by Soakman

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Intel Report seems way more powerful than these reviewers are implying (or maybe that I'm inferring.)

It's a Rogue flavored Drawn to the Flame, except more flexible - meaning more useful in more situations, and the cost reflects that.

 

Did Joe (or treachery/token) have to drop a clue on a VP location? Scoop that up.

Did your Survivor try to Look What I Found but accidentally succeed, leaving behind one clue and a sad emoji? Scoop that up.

Want an extra VP before resigning? Dump that cash and scoop those clues that are too far away to go back for.

 

I'm probably packing Intel Report in every deck that can take it the same way I put Drawn to the Flame in every deck that can take it. It's definitely the MVP of the set, imo. It almost seems like power creep from my perspective.

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I prefer DttF over Intel Report. Yes, Preston and Jenny will love it, but resources are still resources. Unless you're packing Lone Wolf and mulligan for it or taking Hot Streaks, 2-6 resources is still quite an investment for 1-2 clues. Drawn to the flame is free. I'm not sold. I don't dislike the card by any means, but I guess it depends what you decide you want to do with your resources. IMO, I'd probably rather just have Lola because she is free-triggered.

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3 hours ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Intel Report seems way more powerful than these reviewers are implying (or maybe that I'm inferring.)

It's a Rogue flavored Drawn to the Flame, except more flexible - meaning more useful in more situations, and the cost reflects that.

 

Did Joe (or treachery/token) have to drop a clue on a VP location? Scoop that up.

Did your Survivor try to Look What I Found but accidentally succeed, leaving behind one clue and a sad emoji? Scoop that up.

Want an extra VP before resigning? Dump that cash and scoop those clues that are too far away to go back for.

 

I'm probably packing Intel Report in every deck that can take it the same way I put Drawn to the Flame in every deck that can take it. It's definitely the MVP of the set, imo. It almost seems like power creep from my perspective.

Well it can be very pricey.  Rogues can deal with pricey, but it's still not zero like DttF.

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Something Worth Fighting For:   Seems real good.  3 sanity soak is nice, since it is slotless.   I have played with True Grit and found it to be very useful, especially on teams, and I can see this being useful also.   Only issue is the cost,  but still quite nice.  4/5

Crack the Case:   Seems pretty good,  a very fair replacement for Emergency Cache,  or simply a supplement to it.   I like it.  3.5/5

Intel Report:  Yeah,  there are lots of rogues who are going to want  this something awful.   2 clues, testless,  for something as cheap as money.  Leans in to exactly what rogues are wanting to do.  4/5

Sign Magic:  You're on the money when you say this would have been a staple a year ago.    Now....    Hard to say.   Hard to say.   I definitely see it fitting in some builds,  and will continue to improve as we see more nice arcane slot spells (or items!)  3/5.

Banish:  Sorry,  while I do agree it's probably better than Blinding Light...  I don't like Blinding Light, and I dont like this.   Pricey, costs a card slot, and an XP.   I'm not really a huge fan of this one.  2/5

Meat Cleaver:   Got a little dark on this one,  but seems ok.  It's a complicated Machete.   Not sure who loves this,  but it's fine.   3/5

.45 Thompson:   I will go ahead and say that I seem to like this card a lot more than the general camp feels is appropriate.  Lots of ammo, good bonuses, and decent damage.   Yes, you will likely replace it with "leveled" weapons,  but fantastic in a starter deck, especially one where you do not have a lot of hand competition.  Price is high,  but considering the bonuses you gain and the generous amount of ammo... well worth it.   4/5

Scroll of Secrets:  Not as big of a fan here.   Even Daisy I don't think takes this,  since Book of Old Lore seems so much better for her.   Really having a hard time seeing why I would want to include this.   My 30 cards are precious.  1.5/5

Tennessee Sour Mash:  I love the idea here but the execution isnt impressing me.   For only 2 uses,  it's just too pricey,  plain and simple.   1.5/5

Enchanted Blade:   Eh...  I wish it had one more charge, even at a higher cost.   3 charges is just not quite enough in my opinion, even if the bonuses are decent.   2.5/5   

Grisly Totem:   I think this looks really good on certain investigators,  especially Minh.   Very decent on others too.   3/5




Overall a lot of decent cards and some gems,  the stars being Something Worth Fighting For, Intel Report, and .45 Thompson.  A few cards missed the mark IMO, but most are very playable.   Seems like a good pack.  

Edited by awp832

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15 hours ago, Allonym said:

Hah, that's a good point. I'm about 95% sure they intended to provide clarity that they do take up a Dunwich slot because those are "up to 5 cards..." whereas others like Carolyn and Finn have "up to 5 other cards..." and instead their bad wording made it the exact opposite.

I think they would have been a lot better off just quoting the rules: "cards included in your deck need to match one of your deck building options and all deck building requirements"

And clarifying, "you choose which option is being used if more than one option is available." 

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1 hour ago, ColinEdwards said:

I think they would have been a lot better off just quoting the rules: "cards included in your deck need to match one of your deck building options and all deck building requirements"

And clarifying, "you choose which option is being used if more than one option is available." 

The more I think about it, the more I think my initial reaction was incorrect and they used that obtuse wording specifically to include the Dunwich investigators. Which is actually worse, because they're using technicalities instead of just making an unambiguous and exhaustive explanation or list showing how it works...

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To all those who rate the player cards in this pack below what they would use, can I have yours?  I have currently constructed 14 decks and not enough of the player cards in this pack to go around.  I had open up alot of Deck slots and Early testing has shown significant improvement with the addition of these cards.

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2 hours ago, Allonym said:

The more I think about it, the more I think my initial reaction was incorrect and they used that obtuse wording specifically to include the Dunwich investigators. Which is actually worse, because they're using technicalities instead of just making an unambiguous and exhaustive explanation or list showing how it works...

I think the existing rules cover the situation pretty clearly to begin with; rather than clarifying things, the document seems to over complicated and confuse something that is already handled cleanly.

You CHOOSE from among the valid deck building Options.

You adhere to ALL deck building Requirements.

Except Norman, because the deck building Options didn't say "other", where "other" is the Keyword that implies Options are NOT Requirements, which they already weren't. 

(Why bother?)

Edited by ColinEdwards

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9 minutes ago, ColinEdwards said:

I think the existing rules cover the situation pretty clearly to begin with; rather than clarifying things, the document seems to over complicated and confuse something that is already handled cleanly.

You CHOOSE from among the valid deck building Options.

You adhere to ALL deck building Requirements.

Except Norman, because the deck building Options didn't say "other", where "other" is the Keyword that implies Options are NOT Requirements, which they already weren't.  

(Why bother?)

I even wonder why need multi class cards in the first place.

We already have neutrals and we have investigators that can take cards from multiple classes/roles.

I recognize that this is just another dial but how many dials do the developers really need to have?

I get they exist and that they are mechanical distinct and I will use them and all but just because a design space can exist is not a reason to use it. 

I also agree that the words are unnecessarily confusing.

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