Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SpiderMana

ARC Article - Hammer the Opposition

Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

It's a better version of Jan Ors's ability... 7 might be too cheap.

I don't think I can agree with "better than Jan."  It's a bit easier to trigger (defender rather than attacker in arc), the drawback is more costly.  Jan Ors' stress isn't that hard to deal with, and it'll be easy-enough for her to work every turn.  7FG, if you want to use it a second time, costs a disarm token.  I suppose this too can work every turn.  Taking a Disarm to recharge when flying away, maybe only to have a Range 3 tail shot, it is probably worth it to give up the attack to give a friendly ship a 4th die.  Also, the 4-dice maximum limitation matters.  Something like an ARC or 7B Aethersprite will reasonably often have a range 1 attack, so 7FG can be unusable.

1 hour ago, RStan said:

Seeing a lot of people saying how strong 7th Fleet Gunner is (which I agree), but then many say it will end up around 4 pts. If it's that strong by us just seeing it for the first time and not seeing table play, what makes you think it will be that cheap? Sure in general it's a one time use in most games, but so are some munitions that require you to have a lock and those increase attack dice as well. Don't be surprised to see this closer to 7 pts (heh). Granted, I'd welcome it to be a bit lower, but 3-4 is likely a bit too low unless ARC base cost is higher and we already see in the Rebel faction low 50s is already a bit too high for them. 

Thinking about ARC prices in general, I'm guessing 45-46 points for the cheapest generic.  50 is Ibtisam, with a Talent slot and a better than folks give her credit for pilot ability.  Going down 2 to 48 for a Talent Init 3 generic, or down 4 to an Init 2 talentless generic makes sense.  Meanwhile, Garven Dreis is 6 points more than a basic X-Wing, and that same 6 point difference over an Init 2 ARC would set it at 45.  However, I think that since the generic SF is 44/46 for 2/3T, having an ARC at 2 points more expensive makes sense, so 46/48T.  The full rear arc is better than the turret, and ARCs are a bit tougher.

Hrm.  On pricing for 7th Fleet Gunner... I go back and forth between 5 (presuming a 46 point base ARC) and 7-8.  I know it won't be legal in Rebels, but thinking about how much I'd pay for it in a Rebel squad is illustrative.  Jan Ors with Moldy Crow is 62 points.  Would I pay the same 62 points for a Norra Wexley ARC with 7th Fleet Gunner?  Heck yes, and that's how much Norra would cost with a 7 point 7FG.  So 7 points totally seems reasonable.  But... A lot of the things in First Order/Resistance might be a bit... aggressively... priced, to make up for a smaller faction.  I could see 7FG being a card like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

swz33_wolffe.png

I assume this means after shooting from your rear arc you need to spend the charge again before you can do another powered up rear arc shot?  You can't recover when it's full (eg by saying you still perform the recover step even with no spent tokens)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mazz0 said:

swz33_wolffe.png

I assume this means after shooting from your rear arc you need to spend the charge again before you can do another powered up rear arc shot?  You can't recover when it's full (eg by saying you still perform the recover step even with no spent tokens)?

That seems like the correct read to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

swz33_wolffe.png

I assume this means after shooting from your rear arc you need to spend the charge again before you can do another powered up rear arc shot?  You can't recover when it's full (eg by saying you still perform the recover step even with no spent tokens)?

Yep.  That's what makes it so cool.  Top 3 coolest uses of charges in the game, IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was bout to say all this:

Quote

 

Man, Oddball is underwhelming though isn't he?

swz33_odd-ball.png

I mean bullseye abilities are almost always weak, especially ones that can't be done after a high initiative reposition, but one that triggers on red manoeuvres.  Jeez.  They could t least have given ships bullseyes in all their primary arcs.

 

Then I noticed the bit about Red actions.  Woo 😅

Still think they should have rear bullseye arcs though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I was bout to say all this:

Then I noticed the bit about Red actions.  Woo 😅

Still think they should have rear bullseye arcs though.

Rear bullseye could be good. They might have even tested it, but we'll never know. For know, I think Oddball's decent since he should have pretty good knowledge of when to barrel roll at initiative 5 and will likely have help from Jedi and 7th Fleet to get the actions and shots he needs to be effective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, prauxim said:

+1 dice that doesn't require TL, the trigger condition is an already desirable condition (focus fire), works out the rear, and has a built in reload. Would prob see play at 4pts.

I’d take it at 10 points, which is about what I expect it to be, perhaps slightly cheaper 6-8; This reminds me a lot of SF gunner. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

swz33_wolffe.png

I assume this means after shooting from your rear arc you need to spend the charge again before you can do another powered up rear arc shot?  You can't recover when it's full (eg by saying you still perform the recover step even with no spent tokens)?

Correct, however with Veteran tailgunner (provides you have targets), you could shoot front first, spend the charge, and then shoot rear to recover the charge, activating both abilities in a single round of combat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mazz0 said:

I was bout to say all this:

Then I noticed the bit about Red actions.  Woo 😅

Still think they should have rear bullseye arcs though.

One cool thing: if you've got bullseye on a ship before you K-Turn, you'll have bullseye on it after you K-Turn.  Now, whether that ship is in the same place as when you set your dial remains to be seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Yep.  That's what makes it so cool.  Top 3 coolest uses of charges in the game, IMHO.

Does this make Veterean Tail Gunner temping? Shoot in the front, spend the charge, shoot in the back, recover charge?

Even though it’s still likely to happen maybe once or twice in a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RStan said:

Seeing a lot of people saying how strong 7th Fleet Gunner is (which I agree), but then many say it will end up around 4 pts. If it's that strong by us just seeing it for the first time and not seeing table play, what makes you think it will be that cheap? Sure in general it's a one time use in most games, but so are some munitions that require you to have a lock and those increase attack dice as well. Don't be surprised to see this closer to 7 pts (heh). Granted, I'd welcome it to be a bit lower, but 3-4 is likely a bit too low unless ARC base cost is higher and we already see in the Rebel faction low 50s is already a bit too high for them. 

I think the 4 mainly comes from Veteran tail gunner which is 4. 7Th FG seems to be about the same effectiveness roughly. instead of a free attack, you get a stronger attack. in the right situation the extra attack die could be more powerful than a free 2 die attack, but thatsballanced out by the reload. good card, but shouldnt be a whole lot more than veteran tail gunner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Rickwilljames said:

I think the 4 mainly comes from Veteran tail gunner which is 4. 7Th FG seems to be about the same effectiveness roughly. instead of a free attack, you get a stronger attack. in the right situation the extra attack die could be more powerful than a free 2 die attack, but thatsballanced out by the reload. good card, but shouldnt be a whole lot more than veteran tail gunner.

Key difference is what is needed line up the Vet Tail Gunner vs the 7th FG. 7th Fg just needs you to have the target in arc with an active charge while Vet Tail requires you to have a target in you front and rear arcs simultaneously. That difference is worth an additional 2 pts minimum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Key difference is what is needed line up the Vet Tail Gunner vs the 7th FG. 7th Fg just needs you to have the target in arc with an active charge while Vet Tail requires you to have a target in you front and rear arcs simultaneously. That difference is worth an additional 2 pts minimum.

I want to argue that last sentiment, but I would totally still at least try these guys out up to 7 or 8 points, so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sort of in on the gunner being cheap but the ship being expensive, but 4 7th fleet might be the cutoff, so probably around 51 in total.  On the other hand, they are encouraging low initiative swarms and alpha strikes more, so they might let 4 through.  Either way, I don't think 4 straight arcs is the best option, but rather some sort of mixed swarm with torrents and Jedi in there too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

On the other hand, they are encouraging low initiative swarms and alpha strikes more, so they might let 4 through.  Either way, I don't think 4 straight arcs is the best option, but rather some sort of mixed swarm with torrents and Jedi in there too.

This. I can see 4 ARC-170s being possible - Ibtisam is 50 points so if there was a non-limited pilot of the same Initiative or lower it'd be hard to see why they should be more expensive, but I don't see the generic ARC-170s becoming massively cheaper.

300?cb=20180913230436latest?cb=20190313231103300?cb=20180914135745

That means 4 x ARC-170 is definitely possible - but allowing for, say, a couple of points shaved off for her ability, you're going to struggle to give the Squad Seven pilot much wargear. Which means you've basically bought 4 x Generic Kimogila equivalent.

Is that a bad thing? Not really, but they're not exactly setting the world on fire either. I agree that given the Crew/Gunner/Astromech/Talent/Modification/Pilot Ability combinations that an ARC-170 seems able to pack in, I think 3 named pilots with some toys, or 1 ARC-170 acting as the support ship for a squad of Jedi and V-19s is probably a better bet.

Compared to the Killergorilla, the ARC-170 is trading Dead To Rights in the bullseye for a 2-dice tail gun (which I think is probably better) and a slightly better shield balance (which is definitely better). The Cartel Executioner is 44 points, for comparison. I think looking at T-70 prices for generics is not unrealistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see being able to take four of the I3 ARCs all with Dedicated in a list. Possibly one or two other upgrades as well. I do not think you will be able to take 4 at any initiative all with 7th Fleet Gunner. I don't think we'll be able to fit four 7th Fleet Gunners in any list. 

Maybe Sinker, Jag, and a pair of the Squad Seven Veterans. Dedicated on the Vets and a bit of room to season up the named pilots. Oddball or Wolffe and a pair of I2s with Dedicated. 

My other theory is that Rebel ARCs are not going to see a re-print anytime soon and possibly not at all. That's why the four ship tokens. They're throwing us a bone regarding ARCs we've converted to 2.0 with making it a bit easier to convert them to Republic ARCs. 

And the over-riding theory is that Republic is going to be best as a "combined arms" faction. You're not going to be as well served by "spam" as you are a tanky ARC, some torrents on the edges, and a Jedi to clean up after them. There are a lot of I3 Clones. So an ARC and a pair of torrents at I3 in some combination. I think there are two of each at I3 (Swoop, Axe, Jag, Sinker) with an ability and one of each as generic at I3.

You're going to have lots of choices for pilots and upgrades but I can't shake the feeling Republic will be best as some form of one ARC, one Aethersprite, two torrents seasoned to taste. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Dwing said:

Does aneone know if Palp only comes in the Arc expanison for now? I know Palp is mentioned in the Sith Infiltrator preview, but I can't find him on any spreads with it. 

 

19 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

He's in the CIS squadron pack.

Umm, as far as I've seen Palp only comes in Sith Infiltrator and ARC170. Where did you get the notion he's in the Servants of Strife squad pack? Nothing carries crew in that pack and it's never been in a spread or article for that pack. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, kempokid said:

Does this make Veterean Tail Gunner temping? Shoot in the front, spend the charge, shoot in the back, recover charge?

Even though it’s still likely to happen maybe once or twice in a game.

Sure.  But I'm also one of those folks who's probably more tempted by VTG on an ARC anyhow.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

This. I can see 4 ARC-170s being possible - Ibtisam is 50 points so if there was a non-limited pilot of the same Initiative or lower it'd be hard to see why they should be more expensive, but I don't see the generic ARC-170s becoming massively cheaper.

That means 4 x ARC-170 is definitely possible - but allowing for, say, a couple of points shaved off for her ability, you're going to struggle to give the Squad Seven pilot much wargear. Which means you've basically bought 4 x Generic Kimogila equivalent.

Is that a bad thing? Not really, but they're not exactly setting the world on fire either. I agree that given the Crew/Gunner/Astromech/Talent/Modification/Pilot Ability combinations that an ARC-170 seems able to pack in, I think 3 named pilots with some toys, or 1 ARC-170 acting as the support ship for a squad of Jedi and V-19s is probably a better bet.

Compared to the Killergorilla, the ARC-170 is trading Dead To Rights in the bullseye for a 2-dice tail gun (which I think is probably better) and a slightly better shield balance (which is definitely better). The Cartel Executioner is 44 points, for comparison. I think looking at T-70 prices for generics is not unrealistic.

46 for the Init 2 keeps feeling right to me.  Same as an Init 1 T-70, 2 more than a Gunner TIE/sf.  48 for a Squad Seven Veteran is 4 more than a Cartel Executioner, which is the same 4 points more that a non-gunner SF is over a TIE Bomber.

And with the success of A-Wings (and to a certain extent TIE/sfs), if the 2-dice rear gun is good, it really shouldn't take people by surprise.  That doesn't necessarily mean ARC-680, but I think they'll be at least OK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

46 for the Init 2 keeps feeling right to me.  Same as an Init 1 T-70, 2 more than a Gunner TIE/sf.  48 for a Squad Seven Veteran is 4 more than a Cartel Executioner, which is the same 4 points more that a non-gunner SF is over a TIE Bomber.

justice for kimogilas when?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, svelok said:

justice for kimogilas when?

When you learn to line up Bullseye arcs, I guess.

The fact that even the generic has a talent slot means you can pack Dead To Rights combined with a bullseye-specific talent and a cheap astromech means they're actually a pretty respectable 4-off heavy fighter, even without their abilities as an ordnance boat. And the named pilots are especially brutal, since both their abilities are bullseye-locked automatic damage (give or take) that comes in addition to your normal attack, and they can get proton rockets on top.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...