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Jedi Order, 6000 years old?

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If you watch AotC, Jedi younglings are engaged in very structured formal training. We see Yoda teaching a class of them in the use of a lightsaber when Obi Wan comes in to discuss the search for Kamino. Initiate is a Jedi rank. A Jedi Initiate is still a Jedi, albeit one still in the early point of his training. 

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In the new Master and Apprentice novel Obi-wan remarks to himself that in “10,000 years of the Jedi” no Padawan was as big a disappointment as him (or something like that). In any case the order is old and there’s a lot of ways that’s been said but it sounds like no precise date has been stated. 

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1 hour ago, Jedi Ronin said:

In the new Master and Apprentice novel Obi-wan remarks to himself that in “10,000 years of the Jedi” no Padawan was as big a disappointment as him (or something like that). In any case the order is old and there’s a lot of ways that’s been said but it sounds like no precise date has been stated. 

It wouldnt surprise me if the Jedi dont actually know. And multiple incarnations and catastrophies likely lead to lost histories. And possibly the truly early stuff was oral tradition. Kind of like a lot of societies have a flood myth but no one really knows what happened. There are theories but little in the way of facts.

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On 4/20/2019 at 2:44 AM, Tramp Graphics said:

If you watch AotC, Jedi younglings are engaged in very structured formal training. We see Yoda teaching a class of them in the use of a lightsaber when Obi Wan comes in to discuss the search for Kamino. Initiate is a Jedi rank. A Jedi Initiate is still a Jedi, albeit one still in the early point of his training. 

So you're leaning on that single scene as evidence that a the Jedi hypothetichal definition of generation referring to a master-student relationship rather than a parent-child relationship can not possibly be anything else than the stretch of time from the student's arrival at infancy to their elevation to knighthood?

You are actually arguing that your reading of a hypothetical scenario in a fictional setting is the only one that can possibly be the correct one. (Yes, that's a period. That was not a question.)

Please note, again, that my argument has only been that it might be a possibility, and you stubbornly persist that it can't possibly be the case under any circumstance. That's not even irritating as much as it's just sad. I pity you if this is any indication of how you normally interact with people. I pity you even more if this stubbornness is something you consider a virtue.

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Posted (edited)

Not just that scene, no. My point about bringing up that particular scene is to disprove your assertion that formal Jedi training didn’t officially begin until the apprentice was taken for one on one training with his Master. And that is only one piece of evidence in the lore, new canon or otherwise. Both canon and Legends establish that formal training and indoctrination began in infancy; teaching them how to control their emotions, how to avoid attachment, the Jedi Code, proper conduct, basic Force techniques and Lightsaber use, etc, were all covered long before an initiate was finally taken on as a Padawan; even construction of their first lightsaber. This is established in the movies,  Clone Wars cartoons, and the various books, and is described in relatively high detail in The Jedi Path. The Master/Padawan apprenticeship covers the more advanced instruction needed to prepare the apprentice for Knighthood, but his/her formal training starts from the moment the initiate is brought into the Jedi Order. This is explicitly established in multiple sources, not just that one scene.

So, yes, it is my assertion that it is not possible that the term “generation” only covers the period of one on one Master/Padawan Training.

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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Jumping onto the Generation debate.  There really isn't a solid standard on it, but really comes down to who is making the measurement.  Obiwan's comment isn't about an actual number, but impressing on Luke the Lineage of the Jedi Order. 

           You can view Generations in different ways.

  • 25 years is a solid reference and easy to follow when looking at history. The real issue is where do you begin that syncs up. 
  • 20 years is a common quick guide for Generations based on birth years. Often when referencing groups like Millennials and Generation X, but there are a few issues there. Like what are the Generation start and stop dates. Some of them don't hold exactly to 20 years with variations based on Events. 
  • When you talk Sports, Generation is often much shorter time span.  4 years being the low end as that is a fairly normal High-school / College Span.  In a more professional capacity the use of 5-10 years is referenced in a Generational timeline between difference teams in the same franchise. While at other times they remark it by events like playoff runs or championships. 

So I would question what is the definition of a Jedi Generation.  It is based on a Youngling Clans? As each Generation is the time from when a Clan is formed and advances to Padawans.  As the path to Knight and Master are individual challenges. 

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On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 10:14 AM, penpenpen said:

I was referring to the apprenticeship part of the training.

"After reaching a certain age, Padawans were normally apprenticed to a Jedi Knight or Jedi Master, beginning their one-on-one training."

This age seems to be about 12-14 in most cases. Younger for Anakin it seems, but that could be due to him being inducted into the order later than usual.

I agree completely. Any discrepancy between 6000 years and "a thousand generations" is completely irrelevant, but it's a fun exercise to come up with plausible explanations. Kind of like the positivist version of nitpicking and looking for "plot holes".

Aye, in Anakin's case it wasn't so much that the order "finally" decided to teach him, but Obi-Wan was taking him on, whether the order would assist him or not. Kinda like a technically clause that often isn't evoked in the Jedism contract due to the situation having never really cropped up before. So yeah, he went from not being affiliated to the order at all to being the apprentice of a fresh Knight of the Order who had acted on his master's dying will.



That being said, again, I feel you guys are being too literal. 10,000 generations is a cool term of phrase, don't read into it because I'm willing to bet a kidney and a lung that all was meant by the statement was "In my order's entire history, no one was a bigger disappointment then I.", which in itself shouldn't be taken too seriously because people rarely are: Characters who are truly part of the universe will believe in things that aren't strictly correct, especially when they are dumping on themselves like Obi-Wan was. It's a cool turn of phrase that literally means nothing but a great weight of the organisation's history, not a precise measurement.

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20 hours ago, LordBritish said:

That being said, again, I feel you guys are being too literal. 10,000 generations is a cool term of phrase, don't read into it because I'm willing to bet a kidney and a lung that all was meant by the statement was "In my order's entire history, no one was a bigger disappointment then I.", which in itself shouldn't be taken too seriously because people rarely are: Characters who are truly part of the universe will believe in things that aren't strictly correct, especially when they are dumping on themselves like Obi-Wan was. It's a cool turn of phrase that literally means nothing but a great weight of the organisation's history, not a precise measurement.

Oh definitely. It was mostly an exercise in seeing how far the literal wording could be bent, and if the two numbers could be made to add up by any logic.

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