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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Xyphistor said:

No they can't. When a summoned stone performs an attack, the Geomancer cannot use spare surges to recover stamina. It's not him attacking, it's his familiar - just like with the Necromancer's Reanimate...

Also, Geomancer summoned stones can't attack on their own, he has to use an action AND spend stamina to Terracall to allow one of his stones to attack once - during its activation. Which, as it's a familiar, has to occur before or after both of the Geomancer's actions - so you can't even interleave your attacks...

Nothing directly equivalent, but Conjurer's Sleight of Mind is a combination of teleportation with area stun so it's vaguely comparable...

Yeah, they're not interchangeable - there's no reason ever to play Geomancer over Conjurer 😛

I say this having just finished a campaign where my wife played Quellen Geomancer (on my recommendation, because we'd just got Lair of the Wyrm and I wanted to check out the new classes/characters)... It was painful.

Hmm.. I can’t seem to quote individual bits of text.

Attacking:

Molten Fury, Earthern Anguish, and Cataclysm. Though Cataclysm is very bad, the Geomancer is the one performing the attacks.

Terracall’s attack is quite limited (I agree about the timing, it’s frustrated my Geomancer in a solo app campaign more than once) but the stone’s status as a non-hero has some (very niche) uses, since the stone itself is unaffected by Shadow, Aura, Combustable, and the like. 

One notable effect is it is unaffected by OL cards. If I were an OL, I would actually consider buying one or two copies of Word of Pain if a Conjurer was chosen.

That card’s presence would make me feel very uneasy if I were a Conjurer with several images out.

Surges: Ley Line can be exhausted to get a surge while within 2 spaces of two Summoned Stones. And each Geomancer attack targeting a monster adjacent to a Summoned Stone gains a surge, per the ability on the familiar card.

The Conjurer can’t actually guarantee surges- though Many Friends is almost as good as one.

I don’t necessarily consider the Geomancer stronger. I can’t speak to the Conjurer in practice since I haven’t seriously played with the class- though I want to pick it when my group finishes Labyrinth of Ruin.

Edited by Lightningclaw
Formatting problem & clarifying something

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If you mean if each hero can take an hybrid class ? Yes

Can a single hero choose for example the monk and then the watchmen to be a "monk watchmen thief", the answer is "no" as stated in the rules

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Posted (edited)

I want to revive this thread to spit out some heroes I think will be greatly helped by the new hybrids.

Tomble Knight: High stamina to power Defend and he gets improved defense.

Jain Spiritspeaker: No Tempest, but Nature’s Bounty makes her much tougher than she already is.

Everything about Pathfinder Durik is in line with a scout, and his ability is valuable to reach search tokens and return to the party. I am unsure if his move actions can be “extended” with fatigue (since his ability only works during move actions) but if it can, the Wildlander’s Fleet Of Foot would be icing on the cake.

Roganna has always been an awesome hero, but she could make a nice Conjurer. She can pick and choose targets with a lot of freedom, and her feat can provide a degree of protection for nearby images.

Orkell can be a free roaming scout. A free KO would make me less worried about leaving the party for some shinies. If I don’t want the full health, then I can clear the way back to my friends after standing up.

Tinashi would make a good warrior or mage. Skills like Whirlwind, Molten Fury, Corpse Blast, Blasting Rune all are great with her ability. It makes many attack skills (like Motivating Charge) more economical too.

Mordrog as a Runemaster: really just one skill... Iron Will is basically a defense die upgrade.

Sir Valadir will make the Hexer’s very rough early game much more consistent. No Plague Cloud, but a Hexer with Internal Rot, Viral Hex, and reliable surges is still scary.

(Oops. The above two have been possible for years).

There are dozens more!

Edit: One more I’m itching to mention- Jonas The Kind as a Conjurer. Images never attack, so they always get bonus defense. (If they’re nearby... which isn’t always the case with the Conjurer)

Edited by Lightningclaw

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I really like the Tomble/Knight combination with the additional defense dice - altough it looks like

- Can I defend you?

- Yes, sure.

- Ok, then I'll hide behind you, use your shield and then let's see how it goes.

 

:)

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Zyla would be a great scout too, since she can fly and go for the search tokens, or maybe as a healer and can use her feat to avoid a "full knock out" heroes. In fact, she would be anthing instead of a mage.

Roganna is already a great monk, either as a disciple or a apothecary (even if it's better to have another hero as apothecary instead, like Rendiel) : as a disciple, using prayer of peace with a feat offer a free turn of monster attacks and can boost her bare hand attack with a yellow die, while as an apothecary, she can goes with Concoction and secret formula, she can fight really hard (with a champion nearby and a bard, she can deal up to of 8 hearts pierce 7)

Mixing the Conjurer is not a good idea since Vortex is maybe if not the best of its powers.

Ashrian could be a great knight since the can have a real good defense and then have a good use of her ability.

Krutzbeck would be a great bounty hunter : his ability works for shots, while "long shot" provides the range needed for his feat.

Tahlia is an impressive Steelcaster and will not suffers of her low mobiliy as she will be granted movement with monster kills and an high amount of stamina


Classes not all worth to be mixed :
- Berserker, Prophet, Champion, Treasure hunter, Bard, Spirit speaker, Shadow walker can easily be used as hybrid classes, since their LV3 cards are dispensables, so would be my first choices.
- Hexer, Thief, Runemaster, Marshal, Skirmisher, Geomancer, Bounty hunter can be used in certain conditions, but loosing a free action attack action is a high price to pay, oftenly too high for me.
- Apothecary (potent remedy), Disciple (Radiant light), Conjurer (Vortex), Necromancer (Dying command), Beastmaster (change skin),  Knight (Stalwart), Stalker (Ambush), Wildlander (Black arrow or Running shot) have their overpowerly strong LV3 cards that will be missing too much, usually I cannot forfeit those abilities (even if most may think than Army of death instead of Dying command, the second one is more polyvalent)

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Posted (edited)

Zyla vs Durik is a great point. She can be a scout too, and she can do it better. Unless you’re afraid of web trap, there’s not much reason to take Durik. And if she’s really in a bad spot, her feat can blink her out of this dimension for a turn.

For the most part, I agree with your assessment of how much classes depend on their 3xp skills. I do think most classes can get by without their level 3s (If pressed, I’d say only the Skirmisher dearly needs one or both of their level 3s)

I think plenty of the level 3s are great and well worth their cost (I would put a lot of them in your middle category) but I don’t consider most of them auto-buys.

But they are good enough that taking a hybrid instead is a trade off. I would think pretty hard about my build if I played a healer as a Champion instead of a warrior, for example.

Here I think the developers did a good job of providing variety while not making archetypes meaningless.

Edited by Lightningclaw

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I‘m starting to wonder if Lost Legends has some cardboard in it. I can’t really tell what size the package may be from the article. I mainly believe it may have cardboard because the base game comes with ~35 “one” damage tokens.

That number might be a little low for app campaigns using the Soul Reaper, since the app generally employs more monsters than the competitive mode.

And the Elementalist may require tokens (though we have no idea yet) since all but one of our current mage classes involve tokens.

Hmm. Can’t wait to get my hands on this!

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Posted (edited)
On 4/3/2019 at 5:35 AM, Lightningclaw said:

I want to revive this thread to spit out some heroes I think will be greatly helped by the new hybrids.

 

I'm guessing there may be some fun and effective combos based on characters such as Seer Kel working with Truthseer- we'll have to try these various 'suggested by the character' combos out to see how they play out.

 

I've wondered from the fact Truthseer became just Seer in second edition if these classes were planned way back when the game launched, or at least before the pack with Seer Kel in, although there's a suggestion the classes may have been planned from the off: note how Spiritspeaker Mok has become Elder Mok, Battlemage Jaes is now Jaes the Exile and Runemaster Thorn has become Master Thorn. Planning these from day one would make sense as they're a key playtesting factor.

 

I still don't think they were all that was planned from the start...

 

 

What's also quite cool is that there's some overlap with Runewars Miniatures with the classes (Descent ideas may of course inspired RWM ideas or there could be characters planned to have the potential to appear in both games or other Terrinoth games) as there we have Beastmaster Th'Uk Tar, Ventala Skirmishers and Berserkers and although these others are less direct some of the other expansions also have a flavour of some of the classes.

 

 

With rumours circulating over the future of Runewars Miniatures (which may well be unfounded- a lot came out for it so it may just be in a gap between release waves, which as always has FFG fans saying the game's dead when this may very much not be true), I hope RWM does continue as I still feel it adds to the Terrinoth family and has longer term potential for Descent, either by fan overlaps or FFG coming up with something to make use of the relevant RWM kit like the minis. There's plenty of RWM kit still on my Terrinoth shopping list and I've not been disappointed with any of my purchases thus far- I'm looking forward to integrating those characters and creatures into my projects.

 

It's nice how subtleties such as these name conventions are linking the different games and expansions, as well as the history of the games' lore, together.

 

Can't wait for the livestream, wonder if they'll sneak in a surprise (if it was me I so would, I know what I'd do, wonder if FFG have the same kind of mindset :) ).

 

But these links make me even more keen to continue work on bringing RWM into Descent and I'm gradually adding to my RWM collection to do so (I too have planned things quite far ahead and long-term for my own fan projects, so FFG have to prove the doubters wrong and continue making RWM :) ).

Edited by Watercolour Dragon

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Posted (edited)
On 4/15/2019 at 3:09 PM, Watercolour Dragon said:

What's also quite cool is that there's some overlap with Runewars Miniatures with the classes...

And Runebound, I literally just had a thread about that...

Quote

With rumours circulating over the future of Runewars Miniatures (which may well be unfounded- a lot came out for it so it may just be in a gap between release waves, which as always has FFG fans saying the game's dead when this may very much not be true)

It's more than rumors The world championship prize was supposed to be: "The Greatest Prize in Gaming, the chance for the World Champion to work with the game's developers to inspire the design of a future card." When they canned organized play ffg said the following: " Unfortunately, the numbers simply do not allow us to continue the program, and we are ending it immediately. There will be no further Seasonal Kits nor Store Championships, and we will be in contact with 2018 World Champion Justin Hare and 2017 World Champion Ben Fox to work through the adjustment to their World Championship prizes."

Ergo no new cards.

The only thing you can hope for is that enough people buy into this at the deep discounted prices that it actually sells and they manage to justify a reprint.

 

Edited by Bucho

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On 4/14/2019 at 10:17 AM, Lightningclaw said:

I‘m starting to wonder if Lost Legends has some cardboard in it. I can’t really tell what size the package may be from the article. I mainly believe it may have cardboard because the base game comes with ~35 “one” damage tokens.

That number might be a little low for app campaigns using the Soul Reaper, since the app generally employs more monsters than the competitive mode.

And the Elementalist may require tokens (though we have no idea yet) since all but one of our current mage classes involve tokens.

Hmm. Can’t wait to get my hands on this!

I Heavily lean to "no cardboard" - soulreaper cards not using "essence" tokens but damage tokens intead is a huge giveaway to me that it will be cards only and that it will utilize existing cardboard

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On 4/14/2019 at 4:17 AM, Lightningclaw said:

I‘m starting to wonder if Lost Legends has some cardboard in it.

Have they ever put cardboard in a print on demand expansion? They certainly worked to get around it in the coops...

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1 minute ago, Bucho said:

Have they ever put cardboard in a print on demand expansion? They certainly worked to get around it in the coops...

I didn’t think about that. I don’t own the coops, so I didn’t know. Probably not, then.

Well, with an expansion or two (I imagine some players will start with MoR and Lost Legends) Running out of damage tokens shouldn’t happen.

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Livestream is tomorrow at 1pm Central. Hopefully we will see more cards.

I’m really hoping the Soul Reaper is a solid healer. Right now, my personal ranking of the healers goes like this:

Bard

Apothecary

Disciple

Prophet (not bad at all, just requires very careful attention to turn order and hero positioning)

Spiritspeaker (Fun and powerful spellcaster, but not a great healer)

I’m hoping the Soul Reaper will be on par with the Disciple and Apothecary.

 

Based on the two starting skills, Spirit Link, and Font Of Vitality, they seem like they really want a smooth early game with easy monsters so they can save up essence.

If the party encounters very tough monsters early on, then the Soul Reaper may simply be unable to keep up with the incoming damage, since they may not have had a chance to gather much essence.

Against an overlord, the OL can limit the Soul Reaper’s healing by picking monster groups with fewer figures. He can also knock out the Soul Reaper. Since they cannot use Spirit Link (another hero recovers damage when they would be ko’ed) on themselves, they will lose all essence gathered.

Also important is condition removal, especially in the cooperative app. Hopefully the Soul Reaper has a skill for that.

From what I’ve seen, I think the Soul Reaper will live or die by the pacing of a quest. That said, there are 6 other skills we still need to see, so who knows...

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