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Next Imperial Corps and Support Speculation

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3 minutes ago, Chili-52 said:

All right Tauntaunscout, you got your Tauntauns, you should at least let Shoretrooperscout get one unit they want

At this point I truly don’t give a flying nun what they release. But I still find shoretroopers unlikey as a corps, specifically. 

Also shoretrooperscout can already do a legal Rogue 1 and/or Scarif imperial army as it is. Corps, commander, special forces and heavy are all out or announced.

 

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3 hours ago, Tubb said:

You should see again return of the jedi. There they fight, alongside stromtroopers, against ewoks and rebels.

They are also in charge of the detention cell at least in the death star, so they are security troops, and it is known (star wars weg role playing game) that their main task is to be in charge of security in spaceships and imperial planetary facilities. That also include performing technical tasks, as other "real life" military regiments do.

In real regiments you can see soldiers performing a lot of diferent tasks in military facilities, but that doesn't mean they are not soldiers that can hold a weapon and fire.

So, the fact that you see them in the main bridge of star destroyers doesn't mean they can't be grounded in an imperial planetary facility (bunker in Endor) fighting against foes.

So in-game they could have some special rules relative to defending positions, and even setting defensive measures, such as the auto blasters you find in detention cell in a new hope or using fixed mounts liked it was in old weg battle miniatures game.

 

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As I did post, I never said they shouldn't ever come, only to try to give them something unique.

Detailing what real world soldiers can do is not necessarily relavant to Star Wars.  Star Wars has a lot of inconsistencies when it comes to logic and realism, by design.   Telling me what WEG has done is even less relevant.  WEG is dead, FFG has the license and even the canon doesn't fully go by what weg did.  

You show a mini of a fleet trooper with, is that an e-web? Well, we already have one of those.  

You cite the navy troopers fighting alongside stormtroopers, fine, but they never show any particular skill or tactical acumen.   Granted, neither do shoretroopers, but as I said a canon character, Del Meeko, who was a shore, was highly skilled enough to become special forces makes them a better candidate for a veterans analog.  

Now, to reiterate what I said to do with navy troopers is make them a support for indirect fire options, a sure fire way to see them in many lists.  I also suggested as a bodyguard command upgrade for Commanders.   Even with my disdain for WEG (and I do) I gave the ideas that actually support the role you say they had.  Guarding, and a combat role, albeit a type of artillery.  These are, I believe two very good and useful roles in game, that would see lots of use as extra hit points for commanders and giving indirect fire to the game.   

As I said, there are plenty of other troop types the empire posesses that make a better fit, at least as far as the veteran analog goes.

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I literally just thought if the better choice than shore troopers as the veteran analog, and plays into a recent announcement.   

What is it then?

These folk:

latest?cb=20170925174327

The imperial super commando.   The loyal to the empire mandalorians, that fought against Sabine - the recent announcement I mentioned earlier.

They could very well fit as a trooper.   Gar Saxon as a commander also fits.   

Now, there is argument they should be special forces, but a hyper mobile trooper with training upgrades there is decent argument for a corps unit.

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17 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I literally just thought if the better choice than shore troopers as the veteran analog, and plays into a recent announcement.   

What is it then?

These folk:

latest?cb=20170925174327

The imperial super commando.   The loyal to the empire mandalorians, that fought against Sabine - the recent announcement I mentioned earlier.

They could very well fit as a trooper.   Gar Saxon as a commander also fits.   

Now, there is argument they should be special forces, but a hyper mobile trooper with training upgrades there is decent argument for a corps unit.

My issue with that is that you'd be putting what is a non-standard unit in a slot that should only really be filled with your regulars for the faction. I could see them being allowed to fill corp slots with a specific commander, like Gar Saxon, but if they didn't do it with the IRG and Papa Palpatine I don't see them doing something like that now.

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21 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

My issue with that is that you'd be putting what is a non-standard unit in a slot that should only really be filled with your regulars for the faction. I could see them being allowed to fill corp slots with a specific commander, like Gar Saxon, but if they didn't do it with the IRG and Papa Palpatine I don't see them doing something like that now.

But that is the crux of the issue though isn't it?   There is no unit that will truly fit all the criteria perfectly.   

There were a great many supercommandoes, they were imperial loyalist mandalorians.  

Having an army of them makes sense to me, they controlled, well subjugated,  Mandalore for the empire.  As such the Mandalorian warrior tradition was bent into the empires doctrine.   They certainly have the training, the majority of mandalore is loyal, at least on paper.  

Game wise, fielding an army of then (6 corps units) makes more sense than an army of navy troopers, shore troopers, or many other variant stormtrooper.  

There is also the advantage to players that want to do an entirely mandalorian army, by including Boba and assuming Gar Saxon as a commander.   

Back to training, I believe the imperial supercommando to be better than the average corps stormtrooper, more numerous than special forces, and likely not as well trained as them either, due to the imperial standardization.  

They are NOT a perfect fit, but nothing truly is.   I do admit they still likely fit a special forces category, as well.   

Edited by That Blasted Samophlange

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1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

At this point I truly don’t give a flying nun what they release. But I still find shoretroopers unlikey as a corps, specifically. 

Also shoretrooperscout can already do a legal Rogue 1 and/or Scarif imperial army as it is. Corps, commander, special forces and heavy are all out or announced.

 

Yeah, that's true.  But Dewbackscout is still left crying in a corner waiting for his.

😜

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I don't know those Mandalorian troops posted above, but I assume they're from Rebels. From the sounds of it, they seem very much in the special forces camp, so they wouldn't suit corps. I'd personally rather something that's a generic choice, that is instantly visually recognisable as Imperial, than named units from outside the films.

I'm not sure I'd agree that sandtroopers would be a let down. They look distinct enough to me and are also significantly differently armed than regular trooper squads. Indeed, almost all of the sandtroopers in ANH carry a heavy weapon of some kind. But, even if they were just sculpts of stormtroopers with backpacks, I'd welcome them. It would be great to get alternate sculpts of stormtroopers, especially given the rise in quality of the newer sculpts.

All that said, I'd still rather get navy troopers. However, given the other Rogue One stuff coming out, I would not at all be surprised if it's shoretroopers that come next. Since they'd help add visual variety to the Empire, that would also be fine by me.

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9 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

As I did post, I never said they shouldn't ever come, only to try to give them something unique.

Detailing what real world soldiers can do is not necessarily relavant to Star Wars.  Star Wars has a lot of inconsistencies when it comes to logic and realism, by design.   Telling me what WEG has done is even less relevant.  WEG is dead, FFG has the license and even the canon doesn't fully go by what weg did.  

You show a mini of a fleet trooper with, is that an e-web? Well, we already have one of those.  

You cite the navy troopers fighting alongside stormtroopers, fine, but they never show any particular skill or tactical acumen.   Granted, neither do shoretroopers, but as I said a canon character, Del Meeko, who was a shore, was highly skilled enough to become special forces makes them a better candidate for a veterans analog.  

Now, to reiterate what I said to do with navy troopers is make them a support for indirect fire options, a sure fire way to see them in many lists.  I also suggested as a bodyguard command upgrade for Commanders.   Even with my disdain for WEG (and I do) I gave the ideas that actually support the role you say they had.  Guarding, and a combat role, albeit a type of artillery.  These are, I believe two very good and useful roles in game, that would see lots of use as extra hit points for commanders and giving indirect fire to the game.   

As I said, there are plenty of other troop types the empire posesses that make a better fit, at least as far as the veteran analog goes.

I'm with Tubb.

Why do we need a veterans analog? Wookies were hardly a Royal Guard analog, for example. There's been plenty of releases that are not mirrors. I'd say the Comms technician would fit in nicely with navy troops...

It's not an e-web it's a generic heavy weapon of Grenadier's own making.

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1 minute ago, TauntaunScout said:

I'm with Tubb.

Why do we need a veterans analog? Wookies were hardly a Royal Guard analog, for example. There's been plenty of releases that are not mirrors. I'd say the Comms technician would fit in nicely with navy troops...

It's not an e-web it's a generic heavy weapon of Grenadier's own making.

??? Wookiees were definitely a Royal Guard analog. They're both beatsticks that generally want to get in another unit's face. Another example is Fleet Troopers and Snowtroopers, two units that want to get in close quarters (but still ranged) combat. Analogs. It doesn't mean "exact copies."

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1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

??? Wookiees were definitely a Royal Guard analog. They're both beatsticks that generally want to get in another unit's face. Another example is Fleet Troopers and Snowtroopers, two units that want to get in close quarters (but still ranged) combat. Analogs. It doesn't mean "exact copies."

Shoretroopers and Sandtroopers are a thematic (hardened vets) analog and nothing more. They would not need to function like rebel vets for any reason, in order to make sense.

Wookies were not a thematic analog to royal guards.

Also. There's no real current reason to say what the stats of navy troops would or wouldn't be. In other games they had better shooting stats than stormtroopers because they weren't slowed down by armor. The comms tech is not really a window into what FFG designers think navy troops would be like.

Edited by TauntaunScout

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10 hours ago, Chili-52 said:

Yeah, that's true.  But Dewbackscout is still left crying in a corner waiting for his.

😜

Nobody puts DewbackScout in a corner!

I'm just sitting here against the wall shaking with rage at the injustice of the world. #rebelfavoritism

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No Mandos, please.  At the very least, they would fit as SF, not corps, just as Wookiees were SF.  Navy troopers, Mudtroopers, or Shoretroopers would all be better.  ****, I'd rather Sandtroopers than Mandos, and I don't want Sandtroopers for a long while.

 

Not sure what the hang up about Navy Troopers is.  Give them white defense die, black offensive die (or two white, since they have the same exact weapon as Rebel fleet troopers), and surges.  For heavy weapons, give them the TL-50.  They could also get nimble, a first for Imperials. (by my count)  Their biggest selling point, as I see it, is that they could easily make Navy Troopers a specialist squad.  After all, the only Navy trooper we have now is a Specialist.  Give them 2 personnel slots, so they could be a medic squad or a repair squad.  The comm technician begs to be included.  Besides the existing personnel, they could also have a forward observer, that hands out aim tokens to other units, or that works with an included, but separate mortar team.  There is plenty of design space for Navy troopers to be cool and different, yet fit their role.

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12 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

As I did post, I never said they shouldn't ever come, only to try to give them something unique.

Detailing what real world soldiers can do is not necessarily relavant to Star Wars.  Star Wars has a lot of inconsistencies when it comes to logic and realism, by design.   Telling me what WEG has done is even less relevant.  WEG is dead, FFG has the license and even the canon doesn't fully go by what weg did.  

You show a mini of a fleet trooper with, is that an e-web? Well, we already have one of those.  

You cite the navy troopers fighting alongside stormtroopers, fine, but they never show any particular skill or tactical acumen.   Granted, neither do shoretroopers, but as I said a canon character, Del Meeko, who was a shore, was highly skilled enough to become special forces makes them a better candidate for a veterans analog.  

Now, to reiterate what I said to do with navy troopers is make them a support for indirect fire options, a sure fire way to see them in many lists.  I also suggested as a bodyguard command upgrade for Commanders.   Even with my disdain for WEG (and I do) I gave the ideas that actually support the role you say they had.  Guarding, and a combat role, albeit a type of artillery.  These are, I believe two very good and useful roles in game, that would see lots of use as extra hit points for commanders and giving indirect fire to the game.   

As I said, there are plenty of other troop types the empire posesses that make a better fit, at least as far as the veteran analog goes.

To reiterate what I said, you should see return of the jedi, there they fight. :)

Or the rescue scene from the detention cell in a new hope, the original movie, the first one, that began everything.

The "plenty of other troop types" are not even seen in the movies, so i feel nice showing a mini from another game. It is star wars, and I don't care about their tactical acumen, they look nice, are in the movies, and you  (FFG) can invent whatever you want for them.

First time we saw empire we didn't know the snowtroopers were a specialst force it was invented for the weg rpg.

First time I have seen scout troopers placing bombs has been in this game, they invent things because they want to add variety, so for sure if they want to include naval troopers they will find anything, just a single Word from an old weg rulebook, that will justify "that" weapon or rule and keep the game balanced and fine.

So, of course they can use them as artillery, as ground personnel or whatever, but to think that they will release a given model for their background is naive, they do whatever they want... why some rebel soldiers are commandos (elite, veterans) and in return the personnel from the tantive IV (fleet troopers) aren't? they need the slot, that's all. They could have done hoth troopers a special forces unit, but they had plenty of them, so let's make them corps.

They create the content they need, or else we wouldn't have royal guards or Palp on a squirmish XD

Edited by Tubb

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40 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Not sure what the hang up about Navy Troopers is. 

Seems like the hangup boils down to "I'd rather play with toy shoretroopers". Which is a valid personal goal, but, doesn't make the shoretrooper a logical corps compared to naval troops. I'm ecstatic that we have a squad of tauntauns but I never really thought they'd be released as a corps choice. For that, the best I could hope for was teh Rebel Veterans. The equivalent corps unit to a Scarif Imperial player is Stormtroopers. Which we already have.

40 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

There is plenty of design space for Navy troopers to be cool and different, yet fit their role.

They're also dead easy to paint and lend themselves to creative repaints better than the distinctive stormtrooper armor/helmet.

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2 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Seems like the hangup boils down to "I'd rather play with toy shoretroopers". Which is a valid personal goal, but, doesn't make the shoretrooper a logical corps compared to naval troops. I'm ecstatic that we have a squad of tauntauns but I never really thought they'd be released as a corps choice. For that, the best I could hope for was teh Rebel Veterans. The equivalent corps unit to a Scarif Imperial player is Stormtroopers. Which we already have.

I'd rather play with toy Dewbacks, but failing that I'll take toy Shoretroopers. Because they were in the movies and they look cool, and why not make them corps?

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Dewbacks could be released together with Jettroopers! For Imperial Assault they were released at the same time, too. They would fit thematicly very well and Jettroopers are perfect as imperial "veteran Troopers". 

Rebel Vets are good at defence, while Jets would be perfect for aggressive first strikes.

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46 minutes ago, Tubb said:

To reiterate what I said, you should see return of the jedi, there they fight. :)

Or the rescue scene from the detention cell in a new hope, the original movie, the first one, that began everything.

The "plenty of other troop types" are not even seen in the movies, so i feel nice showing a mini from another game. It is star wars, and I don't care about their tactical acumen, they look nice, are in the movies, and you  (FFG) can invent whatever you want for them.

First time we saw empire we didn't know the snowtroopers were a specialst force it was invented for the weg rpg.

First time I have seen scout troopers placing bombs has been in this game, they invent things because they want to add variety, so for sure if they want to include naval troopers they will find anything, just a single Word from an old weg rulebook, that will justify "that" weapon or rule and keep the game balanced and fine.

I have seen Return of the Jedi and A New Hope, surprisingly, and I didn't see them do much fighting, mainly just standing and dying.

The movies are NOT the be all and end all for star wars.  Whether you like it or not, there are other media that are considered canon, and thus equally important in relavance.  That being said, I believe other trooper types such as jumptroopers, mandalorian supercommandoes, even Imperial cadets get more screen time in animated showd than navy troopers to in the otiginal trilogy.

My preference is that shore troopers look ‘nice’ and have better gear than the stupid helmets primarily starship stationed troops have, rebel and imperial alike. That is my opinion.   

My only argument against navy troopers has been that they don't fit as a VETERAN analog.   Yes, this is assuming we will get an imperial trooper that is similar to the rebels hoth troops.    That is what this theorizing is about - what Imperial troop makes the best similarly designed niche, as in a corps with a training upgrade slot, and I don't feel they (navy troops) fig that bill.

Once again, I am not saying they shouldn't come out, just not for the purposes of a similar to hoth veteran rebels in design.

I have cited that shore troopers have, by showing on screen combat they are about equal, with shore troopers coming out maybe slightly ahead due to the nature of the battle at Scarif.  

In current canon they are about equal according to the visual guides for Solo and Rogue one.  But, at least one named character comes from the shoretrooper ranks, I can't think of any for navy troopers, so Shorettoopers win out again.

As for the costumes themselves, I find the navy troopers boring.   Painting them would be easy yes, but in going with on screen appearance, monotone with a few highlights.   Shore troopers look better, more colours, paint applications to do from onscreen, plus model wise, armoured heads are easier than faces, both to sculpt and paint.  

As to putting the naval troops in game, I have offered solutions on HOW to do it, apart from that of a Corps unit.  These fit onscreen examples of what they do.   These ideas haven't been discussed, and all I get primarily is that WEG did it this way, and were onscreen for a minute, so they are the obvious choice for an imperial corps release, that will likely focus on having a training slot. 

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5 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I have seen Return of the Jedi and A New Hope, surprisingly, and I didn't see them do much fighting, mainly just standing and dying.

The movies are NOT the be all and end all for star wars.  Whether you like it or not, there are other media that are considered canon, and thus equally important in relavance.  That being said, I believe other trooper types such as jumptroopers, mandalorian supercommandoes, even Imperial cadets get more screen time in animated showd than navy troopers to in the otiginal trilogy.

My preference is that shore troopers look ‘nice’ and have better gear than the stupid helmets primarily starship stationed troops have, rebel and imperial alike. That is my opinion.   

My only argument against navy troopers has been that they don't fit as a VETERAN analog.   Yes, this is assuming we will get an imperial trooper that is similar to the rebels hoth troops.    That is what this theorizing is about - what Imperial troop makes the best similarly designed niche, as in a corps with a training upgrade slot, and I don't feel they (navy troops) fig that bill.

Once again, I am not saying they shouldn't come out, just not for the purposes of a similar to hoth veteran rebels in design.

I have cited that shore troopers have, by showing on screen combat they are about equal, with shore troopers coming out maybe slightly ahead due to the nature of the battle at Scarif.  

In current canon they are about equal according to the visual guides for Solo and Rogue one.  But, at least one named character comes from the shoretrooper ranks, I can't think of any for navy troopers, so Shorettoopers win out again.

As for the costumes themselves, I find the navy troopers boring.   Painting them would be easy yes, but in going with on screen appearance, monotone with a few highlights.   Shore troopers look better, more colours, paint applications to do from onscreen, plus model wise, armoured heads are easier than faces, both to sculpt and paint.  

As to putting the naval troops in game, I have offered solutions on HOW to do it, apart from that of a Corps unit.  These fit onscreen examples of what they do.   These ideas haven't been discussed, and all I get primarily is that WEG did it this way, and were onscreen for a minute, so they are the obvious choice for an imperial corps release, that will likely focus on having a training slot. 

I'm siding with @TauntaunScout on this one. He obviously has some sort of ability to control which units FFG releases, based on recent announcements. If he says imperial navy troopers, it's going to be imperial navy troopers.

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1 hour ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Whether you like it or not, there are other media that are considered canon, and thus equally important in relavance. 

They're not all equal in relevance for all pursuits. For a tabletop infantry wargame of 30-something mm scale, set (so far) in the GCW, designed (presumably) to reach out to a broad customer base, certain things are going to pull ahead. A lot more people have seen some of this media than others. Jaxxon and Duloks are canon. No one would have seriously suggested that makes them equal in consideration to Chewbacca and Stormtroopers. Then again, despite screen time and popular appeal, given the scale and scope of the game, AT-AT's are less likely to appear than a very niche troop type from a comic or cartoon.

I don't specifically think they WILL or WON'T release any given thing next. We pretty much only deal in uncertainties when we try to make these predictions.

Off the top of my head, I think the announced products will give us 7 stormtrooper items so far. Excluding characters, I think we only have 2 non-stormtrooper products. Given those proportions, pretty much anything from the stormtroopers is going to be less thematic variety than anything else.

The release waves aren't all quite so hand-in-glove as the tauntauns and veterans. Therefore, even if a dewback is next sandtroopers aren't an automatic inclusion. The ordinary stormtrooper sculpts would seem to preclude sandtroopers. But if this were true, Rebel Troopers would have precluded commandos and pathfinders. Instead it seems FFG gave a vaguely Scarif/Endor corps and support, then built on that with special forces and commanders specific to both visual themes. They also gave us Imperial corps that would work on both Scarif and Endor, then gave us a special forces and commander for both. We've also got an Endor heavy and support, but no such things for Scarif. Legion's not as symmetrical as it comes off sometimes.

Dewbacks would firmly nail down the idea that "Yeah, Legion has animals now" and the game does seem to follow to that sort of symmetry. Everyone gets droids at once, everyone gets a big vehicle at once, etc. So that doesn't make dewbacks seem terribly unlikely. I personally feel that "not unlikely" is about the most certain we ever get on this stuff. If it's as mirrored as the specialists boxes or big vehicles were, and as hand-in-glove as tauntauns and veterans or Palpatine and his guards, then yes. Dewbacks and Sandtroopers are the most likely. But not all releases are mirrored and not products within a release dovetail that closely.

Rebels just got riding beasts, imperials don't have any yet. Check one for dewbacks. FFG went out of their way to say "you can ride tauntauns on [dewback planet]." Check two for dewbacks.

I'd give it like 80% odds we'll get dewbacks next and if we do, a further 80% odds of a corps unit chosen from ANH. Which would almost have to be sandtroopers or navy troopers. I wouldn't think something more exotic like hired cantina thugs or a mixed bag of Death Star crew would fit the MO thus far for this game. I guess if anyone had the time to chart out all the previous releases up to now they could come up with actual odds for mirrory-ness of releases, and for how tightly allied releases match each other? Some of that might get dangerously subjective for such a small sampling size as we have though. 80% is good odds but still pretty fallible.

This is not about what I deeply truly want them to release. If I could have anything within reason, the next two SKU's would probably be a squad of nameless bounty hunters and a dewback rider, honestly. But I just got my two "must have" armies so... whatever, I'm fine. This release wave of Hoth stuff is THE models I've been waiting for since fully reading the WEG minis book at age 11. I'm 37.  WEG gave us far, far too few models, at too high of a price point, albeit for a proper wargame. WOTC eventually gave us enough, affordable, models but as poor pre-paints in a map skirmish game. SW: IA didn't even come close on any account. But now here we are! A good cheap squad of models, for Hoth rebel infantry and on tauntauns, for a rulers-and-model-fields game! The next imperial wave could be a Gene Autry commander model and a squad of Munsters. I'd still be on Cloud 9 for months.

Edited by TauntaunScout

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My money is will get a corps unit of big-helmets like we see on the Imperial Officer upgrade card. Though someone on the Facebook group made a good argument that Sandtroopers could be made into something like Recon Troopers.

If we're getting more elites I like the idea of Range Troopers more than Shoretroopers. They look cooler and Shoretroopers have pretty limited use as so few battles happen on a shore.

Edited by frankelee

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1 hour ago, Robeck said:

Dewbacks could be released together with Jettroopers! For Imperial Assault they were released at the same time, too. They would fit thematicly very well and Jettroopers are perfect as imperial "veteran Troopers". 

Rebel Vets are good at defence, while Jets would be perfect for aggressive first strikes.

I think they're scared of flying pegs after the fallout from The Hunter Formerly Known as Fett.

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