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Tauntaun Riders! And Rebel Veterans!

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1 hour ago, costi said:

@TauntaunScout is not here yet? :)

 

Okay, the Tauntauns look crazy - speed 3, relentless, 2 red dice each, sharpshooter, unhindered, 4 wounds... for 90 points? The equally-priced Speeder Bikes look sad in comparison...

I thought so to at first but speeder bikes get cover1 for all attacks against them (though the dodge is good). They get more dice, so it is possible to do more damage though I am guessing their mean damage is similar. However, speeders are range 1-3 and can travel 3 times in a turn. Down side is they must travel once a turn. With the tauntauns you are basically compelled to move them, if only a little, to get their bonus dodge. I am not willing to crown tauntauns as strictly better because of the range. Also, Tauntauns might be a better melee unit than range. That would make them rather different than speeder bikes.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

They could have done it like that vampire guy in Runewars. That's kind of precedent.

Also I wonder what the imperial counterpart will be. I guess Imperial Army troopers (Canon) aka Mudtroopers would fit tthe trench theme nice. But what about the Riders? Maybe Probe droids?

Dewbacks are the most likely "Cavalry" option for the Empire. The Vampire that has two models in the same box? Unless there is a second box for him that I don't see on the product page, that's not really the same thing....

Realized what you meant. In this case the role of Dragoons is better represented by Transport vehicles, since you can end up with weird situations where the mounted unit has taken more wounds than the dismounted unit can take, or normal infantry with multiple wounds. For supernatural stuff it's a bit easier to justify.

32 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

He could also be done like the Vader Con exclusive...

I'm still of the opinion that that model only exists because Disney said "make an exclusive model for Celebration," not because FFG actually wants to just re-release existing units in slightly different poses/fairly different heights. But let's try to stay on topic regarding the new Hoth stuff.

I was inferring I would rather see a completely commander rather than  a "new" Commander called "Luke Skywalker: Commander of the Rebellion" which would a model of luke in the flight suit/Hoth clothing, with some minor differences to the initial"Luke Skywalker: Hero of the Rebellion," but you couldn't field both due to them being named "Luke Skywalker."

 

Edited by Caimheul1313
Corrected comments

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Mep said:

I thought so to at first but speeder bikes get cover1 for all attacks against them (though the dodge is good). They get more dice, so it is possible to do more damage though I am guessing their mean damage is similar. However, speeders are range 1-3 and can travel 3 times in a turn. Down side is they must travel once a turn. With the tauntauns you are basically compelled to move them, if only a little, to get their bonus dodge. I am not willing to crown tauntauns as strictly better because of the range. Also, Tauntauns might be a better melee unit than range. That would make them rather different than speeder bikes.

I'm not sure if this is in the "Benefit" or "Detriment" column, but Tauntauns can also engage/be engaged by other trooper models and claim all objectives (pending RRG upgrade for any special rules that apply to ... __________ Troopers? I can't quite make out the first word...)

EDIT: Creature Troopers maybe?

Edited by Caimheul1313

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@Caimheul1313 Yeah, it really isn't clear what that says. I would think it should read Mounted Troopers but I don't think that is what it says. They are a trooper type though, so they can play for objectives. Probably excellent at stealing creates.

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@Mep When I zoom in my brain tells me "Creature," but I agree "Mounted" would have made at least as much sense. It is possible that Creature Troopers won't be able to interact with certain objectives... Or that we might see units with just Creature... 

Brief aside: I have a sneaking suspicion fueled by the Tauntauns that the CIS will have mounted Geonosis troopers (Geonosian picadors/wrangler) and/or some of the creatures from the arena.

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52 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Yes. I honestly don't care what they do or don't release from now on.  I'd buy certain other things too, or not, whatever, I don't care anymore. I'll want a right proper Hoth commander someday but the generic officer (painted in Hothic colors) will do, more or less indefinitely. These are the two squads I've been waiting for some license holder to make since I started in the hobby of wargaming. I honestly feared these could be delayed for another year or two as part of an elaborate marketing theory. Then again, I also suspected that we'd now see a precise doubling of the original release run, starting with a corps, support and commander per side, and these would fit with that idea.

My imperial army has a maxed out Hoth force org chart (Veers & Vader, 2x AT-ST, 3x e-web, 6x snowtroopers) and my rebels will now immediately follow suit and then some.

I am absolutely giddy that the tauntaun guys are a squad and that for some reason, in the SW universe, they gallop into battle shooting from the saddle like wild pistoleros. They remind me of the The Outlaw Josey Wales.

The sheer amount of Legion junk I'm going to paint now is going to be wild. This has really opened a dangerous can of crazy. I might have to sell some stuff to make more room. The way I see it, I need a core set of rebels painted for woods, desert, and snow. Plus maxed out Hoth units painted all snowylike. Plus at least one tauntaun squad painted for desert and woods. Also an autobiographical conversion on tauntaun will be needed for each of the three environments.

This is without even getting into homebrew army lists. I am gonna get way too involved in this.

Totally happy you got what you have been waiting so long for Tauntan!  (As I have said before, I have always been totally willing to buy these units as well and will be)

One thing for thought I might note though:  Right now we have only minimal information about the Mark II Medium Blaster.  We know it is a separate unit (there is no heavy upgrade card for it and we can sort of see the second unit card under the main unit card).  But we do not know what type of unit it is (cannot see enough of the unit card, nor can we see the second command token).  So, the Mark II could be a support (emplacement trooper).  If so, you will only be able to use so many of them and/or Tauntans.  (not accounting for any homebrew rules for casual play)

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Alternatively, it could just be calvary trooper, as that doesn’t just restrict it to people mounted on animals. But then we couldn’t get just a creature with no mount, I guess...?

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3 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

They could have done it like that vampire guy in Runewars. That's kind of precedent.

Also I wonder what the imperial counterpart will be. I guess Imperial Army troopers (Canon) aka Mudtroopers would fit tthe trench theme nice. But what about the Riders? Maybe Probe droids?

 

The problem here is that if they're true dragoons, there's no point in Taun Taun models.  Dragoons dismount before fighting and stay dismounted until the engagement is over, so the way to accurately represent them is super boring i.e. just dismounted infantry with light weapons.  The same goes for things like transport rules or rules for airborne forces.  But players want cavalry represented by being on animals, airborne forces represented by dropping in and transports represented by riding an lightly armored vehicle while being shot at.  Real combat has frustrating and unintuitive mechanics.

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2 hours ago, Mep said:

I believe the word surges is in there. Probably changes up to 2 surges to crits.

Is it me, or are these veterans straight up power creep over the normal troopers? I mean 4 points more for that offensive surge is pretty good.

Tuantauns are similar to speeder bikes but seem to be balanced accordingly. Speeder bikes are still good.

Aren't they 8 points more?

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1 hour ago, Sith Lord Revan said:

What’s the point of the veterans? They just make the normal troopers redundant because why on earth would you want to run troopers now you have these guys with auto dodge, surge on attack and defence and black attack? Is this the inevitable creep? It’s a shame if it is.

The best Rebel players I know take advantage of Nimble. Vets don’t have that. 

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3 minutes ago, Thevshi said:

One thing for thought I might note though:  Right now we have only minimal information about the Mark II Medium Blaster.  We know it is a separate unit (there is no heavy upgrade card for it and we can sort of see the second unit card under the main unit card).  But we do not know what type of unit it is (cannot see enough of the unit card, nor can we see the second command token).  So, the Mark II could be a support (emplacement trooper).  If so, you will only be able to use so many of them and/or Tauntans.  (not accounting for any homebrew rules for casual play)

They could also be Corps units? They could have a "detachment" rule requiring you to have included a unit of Veterans in order to take the Mark II, and may not count as part of the Force Org slot. I'm am very interested in seeing that card though, since I can think of quite a few different ways of implementing it.

2 minutes ago, vissur1 said:

Alternatively, it could just be calvary trooper, as that doesn’t just restrict it to people mounted on animals. But then we couldn’t get just a creature with no mount, I guess...?

I'm fairly certain I see a CR at the beginning with a T in the middle, but I could be mistaken/it could have changed since when the photos were taken. Arguably the AT-RT and Speederbikes could have been called "cavalry troopers." 

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1 minute ago, Caimheul1313 said:

They could also be Corps units? They could have a "detachment" rule requiring you to have included a unit of Veterans in order to take the Mark II, and may not count as part of the Force Org slot. I'm am very interested in seeing that card though, since I can think of quite a few different ways of implementing it.

This is possible.  The only problem I see with them as not counting as part of the Force Org slot is that they are still a stand alone unit, with its own unit card and command token, so that seems like it could cause problems with the organization rules.  Also, the bottom paragraph of the article seems to make it more likely that it would be a Support (ie emplacement trooper) as the paragraph talks about if you did not want the stationary 1.4 laser cannon, you could deploy the Mark II.  If it is not an emplacement trooper, you are not getting the benefit of the Veteran's Coordinate Emplacement Trooper.  (Of course, it could be a Corps and still be an emplacement trooper, but I sort of doubt that).

Either way, I really look forward to learning more about it!

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Thevshi said:

This is possible.  The only problem I see with them as not counting as part of the Force Org slot is that they are still a stand alone unit, with its own unit card and command token, so that seems like it could cause problems with the organization rules.  Also, the bottom paragraph of the article seems to make it more likely that it would be a Support (ie emplacement trooper) as the paragraph talks about if you did not want the stationary 1.4 laser cannon, you could deploy the Mark II.  If it is not an emplacement trooper, you are not getting the benefit of the Veteran's Coordinate Emplacement Trooper.  (Of course, it could be a Corps and still be an emplacement trooper, but I sort of doubt that).

Either way, I really look forward to learning more about it!

I'm thinking something along the lines of Entourage, which has a similar effect of ignoring the rank of the unit, but on the "Detached" unit rather than the "parent" unit. For reference:

Quote

Ignoring the rank of a unit means that the unit’s rank does not count against the rank restrictions for building a standard army. This may cause an army to have more units of a specific rank than the rules for building a standard army normally allow; because of the entourage keyword, such an army still meets the rules for building a standard army

For my idea of "Detachment," the wording for Entourage could be copied, adding that it the unit additionally cannot fulfill any list requirements. There is already a precedent in Legion. 

Edit: "Detachment: Unit name" is the way I envision this working, where "Unit name" is the required unit.

Edited by Caimheul1313

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I'm thinking something along the lines of Entourage, which has a similar effect of ignoring the rank of the unit, but on the "Detached" unit rather than the "parent" unit. For reference:

For my idea of "Detachment," the wording for Entourage could be copied, adding that it the unit additionally cannot fulfill any list requirements. There is already a precedent in Legion. 

Sure, that makes sense, I could see it working that way. 

It will be interesting to see if having a "Detached" unit counts as having a heavy for the Corps, or whether you can have both.  I sort of think it would be the former, but guess we will have to see.

Edited by Thevshi

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Yeah, so reading these, love the design. Tauntauns are "rebel bikes" but in a wholly unique way - the focus on dodges, their own version of action efficiency, and I think reading the article Ram will be a Force Push type effect. On the flip side, unlike bikes, they have absolutely no ability to damage armor. Assuming armor doesn't spring back with new units, this could be a reason to bring some to try and box out these units.

Revel Veterans look good, calling them "Veterans" is real good too. They feel like a middle step between buying up for a Commando squad and regular infantry, with simple but distinct rules which even reward thematic play - that Coordinate keyword applies to both the detachment and the FD Laser Tower. You can do a lot of fun stuff with a Corps with a Training slot. Love how they handled it. Also, I agree they won't replace core Rebel Troopers - they're more expensive which adds up fast, and as others have pointed out Defend is only good if you're receiving orders, and since they don't have nimble their dodge does not regenerate. Given their efficiency with emplacement troopers, I think Veterans make a great rear-guard unit but will not necessarily be pushing up to the front under heavy fire. They're good for some battlefields and not others, so you probably do not want to replace all your Troopers with them. 

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19 minutes ago, TalkPolite said:

The best Rebel players I know take advantage of Nimble. Vets don’t have that. 

To be fair, it's hard to use nimble without a way of getting dodge tokens outside of their own activation.  At best using dodge means you're either not shooting or not moving and it's only helpful after you activate.  A single suppression token leads to having to choose between the three.  Covering fire aside, I've always found it hard to use effectively.

As a Solo player these guys are more useful in that they can shoot decently and get a dodge when I throw a reckless diversion out.  I see them as a decent balance between troopers and commandos.

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33 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

But players want cavalry represented by being on animals, airborne forces represented by dropping in and transports represented by riding an lightly armored vehicle while being shot at.  Real combat has frustrating and unintuitive mechanics.

Medics that instantly restore health is another fake but fun gaming convention. "Real" usually medics just mean you get sent to the hospital instead of the morgue :(

 

36 minutes ago, Thevshi said:

 So, the Mark II could be a support (emplacement trooper).  If so, you will only be able to use so many of them and/or Tauntans.  (not accounting for any homebrew rules for casual play)

It's a "detachment". Something new for the force org chart. I don't think they even get their own activation, by the general drift of the article. But tauntauns and atgars are indeed in competition with one another....

 

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Dewbacks are the most likely "Cavalry" option for the Empire.

 

I'm not convinced the releases are going to be that much of a mirror image anymore. Support yes, cavalry, juries out.

 

As for whoever asked about Endor tauntauns, use your imagination... But! The Ewoks cartoon does show grey, VERY tauntaun-like animals, on Endor!

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There's a variety of mounts rebels have used, quite a few of which were referenced by FFG in their book Stay on Target. I think tauntauns have some subspecies diversity so you might get away with a more gray or brown look.

Or probably with a little bit of work, make a Cracian Thumper

latest?cb=20090818081203

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