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Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Koing907 said:

Right. Just like I said in the immediately preceding four words you edited out of my quote. Hide and Go seek has very little in common with X-Wing miniatures, and so your analogy isn't helpful.

I miss-read that sentence, and actually repaired your quote before I saw this, so my bad.  I still think it's a good analogy, however.

Quote

Interesting. I don't think I agree, but even if I did, what do you propose to do about it, if anything?

Is taking inspiration from an opponent's list "cheat code" as well? How about learning from their opponent's tactics instead of "inventing" tactics on their own?

Well, I don't propose to do anything about it, since I'm free to be creative on my own.

As for the latter, I suppose it depends on what you do with "5 Ys are really good."  Do you sit down with 5 Ys as a base and then create your own list?  Or do you copy down his list verbatum and then run it as if it was your idea?  The former is still fairly creative; the latter, meh. . . 

Quote

I don't think that the podcasts and meta discussion suppress creativity in the X-Wing scene.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I have never liked how much this game has revolved around meta, math-analysis, and queries of "I want to fly Kylo.  Somebody tell me how."

Edited by Darth Meanie

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8 hours ago, Koing907 said:

Analogies are usually terrible.

🤣 So true!!! I have a coworker who constantly tries to use analogies, but they don't make sense until he explains the analogy - thus defeating the purpose of the analogy, and getting me confused along the way.

7 hours ago, knute said:

I will say this about the current meta. I'm rather tired of seeing roughly the same 5 A-Wing Resistance lists showing up at every local tournament. 

I was watching Hairy Nick on YouTube the other day after the "emergency points change" for the Upsilon, and I think he has the right of it when he says that FFG ought to consider doing more frequent points changes - at least once every 4 months instead of 6 months. I think the "new meta" developed rather quickly, and seems durable enough that we might very well see the same lists (5Y/4Y, 5A, etc.) until July. 

I think it's important for us to remember that the 'meta' isn't defined solely by what people fly, but how they fly it. Sure, it looks like the meta is 'solved' but I'm excited to keep trying things, and flying differently to try to best the 5-ship menace (okay, I'll be using 5 ships of my own, but their strikers, so that's completely different, right?). Additionally, the real fun begins when you start seeing things meant to upset the meta (like bombs or spread damage against squads with large ship counts). And then moves to counter those counter plays in squad building. I don't think we're ready for a points reset just yet. Get ready for an exciting couple of months!

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This recent discussion has actually enlightened me on my own unpopular opinion: list building is an entirely irrelevant skill for actually playing X-wing, and skipping it entirely is completely fine.

Not everyone's got the time, inclination, or even talent to build their own lists, and no one can tell these people they're wrong. So long as both lists are legal how they got to the table matters for exactly nothing.

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10 hours ago, knute said:

I'm rather tired of seeing roughly the same 5 A-Wing Resistance lists showing up at every local tournament. 

So, I'm keeping track of all 5 Awing lists that are entered to listfortress. Based on the entered it is wrong to say that 5A is everywhere, or that it is always the same version.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, william1134 said:

Basic imperial tie fighters are still no good and are usually a waste of points.

How sure are you about that?

Hyperspace trial winner and top8 but winner of swiss
Hyperspace trial top8
Hyperspace trial top8
Hyperspace trial top8 (5+Sabacc)
Hyperspace trial top4 and top 8
Hyperspace trial runner up and top4

I mean, I am honestly surprised myself and now I wonder what other list placed so consistently in the cut!
 

Edited by GreenDragoon

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I'm not really that sure, its just my opinion as nobody has been running them at my club. But then again we don't fly Hyperspace and I think in regular extended most things tend to be better in terms of value.

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Unpopular opinions?  That's my bread and butter.

Lets see.

1.  X-Wing stopped being good after Wave 4.  Up to that point it was a game about dog fighting, not dice manipulation and special actions/cards.   Pretty much every list was viable at that point, after that it was downhill.

2. 2.0 was a let down.  We went from one type of largely broken game to a different, albeit similar type of broken game.  Its not the same problems, but the same type of issue.

3. Epic is the only fun way to play X-Wing.

4. Mirror matches (aka rebel vs. rebel etc..) should not be allowed in tournaments and severely frowned upon in house games.

 

*Fire resistant suit on

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I don't care about opinions - they mean absolutely nothing . I care about reasons and arguments on which opinions stand, and these are the only indicators as to how strong or how weak a given opinion is. Any opinion uttered whithout giving any reason for it can be dismissed out of hand.

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On 3/11/2019 at 10:36 AM, Darth Meanie said:

I am beginning to miss the discontent that was the end of 1.0. . .it was making players very creative in addressing the situation.

I was doing some XWM organization this weekend, and ran into my printout of this:

Players were putting a lot of energy into "reinventing" XWM, getting out of the grind, and make the game fun.  With the advent of 2.0, it seems like everyone is willing to just let FFG fluff out factions without demanding more from the game than Standard.

Because for me this happened after about 5 games.

2.0 has essentially killed any approach to the game but the fishbowl again--and I think this is the biggest danger that 2.0 faces.  At some point, without play-style diversity (missions, scenarios, or well-supported Epic), the game will die because it never became anything different than what it was in August of 2012.

I love love love objectives. Have never had more fun playing the game then those formats. It's what I wanted 2.0 to be. The game becomes more of a story. Fishbowl becomes aquarium. Requires more skill and planning. Dogfight is actually very lazy game design when you think about it. 

I wish Objectives could return as an sanctioned FFG official format. But it would take the sort of community initiative we are seeing from the Ruleluminati judges consensus to see it pick up momentum. 

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20 minutes ago, Berg_Katze said:

And because she's a woman, obviously, and anyone who even thinks otherwise is a hypersensitive crybaby.

Not sure if you’re being serious or if you’re actually suggesting that folks can’t criticize a character who didn’t do much.

Really, the Internet has become that weird a place, I can’t tell anymore.

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Kylo and Silencers are not what FFG feared they would be, at their price they’re just meh.

Defenders are not what FFG feared they would be, at their price they’re also just above-ish meh.

But...

Turns out YYYYY is really good and super tough.

Turns out AAAAA is really good and fun.

Turns out SFSFSFSFSF is really solid.

And, turns out the best Aces are not Imperial or any other faction actually, they’re in the Resistance.

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10 hours ago, DR4CO said:

This recent discussion has actually enlightened me on my own unpopular opinion: list building is an entirely irrelevant skill for actually playing X-wing, and skipping it entirely is completely fine.

Not everyone's got the time, inclination, or even talent to build their own lists, and no one can tell these people they're wrong. So long as both lists are legal how they got to the table matters for exactly nothing.

Huh.  So, I'm surprised at this Unpopular Opinion seems pretty popular with 5 Likes.

Spoiler Alert: I like listbuilding, and having it be irrelevant would actually make me unhappy.

Moreover, if it is actually irrelevant, then the whole set up of the game is sorta BS.

(A.)  It tricks players into buying a game where they might think that upgrades and customization are a part of the game; to then have that be meaningless is deceptive advertising.

(B.)  It really dumbs the game down into just "peg and play," which now makes it an even more vanilla tactical game.

(C.)  It means that all of the balance issues are uselessly self-inflicted by the designers.  Every pilot should simply exist as a QuickBuild card and be done.  This would make balance easier, and be true to the real nature of the game.

(D.)  The notion of separating the pilot from the ship becomes an extremely bad idea, as it adds a meaningless level of complexity to a game where pre-play player design is unimportant.

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I mean, I can KINDA see whatDR4CO means.

I love list building, and of course I feel it matters.

BUT, you can build/take the 'best' list in the world. A world's winning list, even a rather point-and-click list. But if you fly it badly, you have basically undone and made irrelevant any list building you spent time on. Bad moves, bad decisions and bad tactics all make however amazing your list is completely moot.

Yes, you still might get lucky and do ok in some games because some of your list is then compensating or forgiving for your bad flying lol but someone else with the exact same list who knows what they are doing will do WAY better.

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Every pilot should simply exist as a QuickBuild card and be done. 

Oh, that reminds me, although I don't think this is completely unpopular:

  • Quick Build format is best format!

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15 hours ago, DR4CO said:

This recent discussion has actually enlightened me on my own unpopular opinion: list building is an entirely irrelevant skill for actually playing X-wing, and skipping it entirely is completely fine.

Not everyone's got the time, inclination, or even talent to build their own lists, and no one can tell these people they're wrong. So long as both lists are legal how they got to the table matters for exactly nothing.

 

4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Huh.  So, I'm surprised at this Unpopular Opinion seems pretty popular with 5 Likes.

Spoiler Alert: I like listbuilding, and having it be irrelevant would actually make me unhappy.

Moreover, if it is actually irrelevant, then the whole set up of the game is sorta BS.

(A.)  It tricks players into buying a game where they might think that upgrades and customization are a part of the game; to then have that be meaningless is deceptive advertising.

(B.)  It really dumbs the game down into just "peg and play," which now makes it an even more vanilla tactical game.

(C.)  It means that all of the balance issues are uselessly self-inflicted by the designers.  Every pilot should simply exist as a QuickBuild card and be done.  This would make balance easier, and be true to the real nature of the game.

(D.)  The notion of separating the pilot from the ship becomes an extremely bad idea, as it adds a meaningless level of complexity to a game where pre-play player design is unimportant.

 

I don't think you understand what DR4CO is saying Darth.  I don't think he is saying that playing a a well constructed list is irrelevant.  He is saying that building it yourself is irrelevant. 

In other words the skill required to build a good list is separate from the skill required to play a list.  And it is perfectly OK for someone who does not have the time/skill/inclination to build a list to simply copy a good net-list and play that.

At least that is how I interpreted what he's saying.

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