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That Blasted Samophlange

I really want the First Order.

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Yes, that is right, I really do want the first order.   The more I see of them, the more I appreciate the aesthetic.   The streamline appearance, their vehicles, I would gladly buy them and play the exclusively.   

Now, I know there are drawbacks, they are very similar to the Empire, yes, but I think there is room for them as well.  After if warhammer 40k can have several or more space marines, I think there is room for the First Order in Legion.  

Now, I know not everyone likes the sequel trilogy, that's fine but how about we keep the criticisms constructive?   This is a thread, I should hope, for people that DO want them, and how to figure out how to differentiate them from the empire as a faction.   If you want to complain about the sequel trilogy, that is your right, but there are countless other places.   So lets keep it on target?

 

Now, I'm going to focus on things visually.   There is a lot to love.  From the sleek lines if the new Stormtrooper, the pilots, not really relavant to Legion, but Resistance has just introduced the First Order Security Bureau’s Agent Tierny:

resistance-120-concept-art-gallery-4_1f7

There is a lot to love here, the armor, the Helmet.  I think at this point there is more than enough to make a faction.

We have stormtroopers, with a heavy weapon:

latest?cb=20160805005203

and maybe this as the other heavy:

latest?cb=20161108073631

So there is the basic corps squad.

Agent Tierny above, is a perfect operative candidate.   

We have a couple of heavies; 

5571251eeb7dec06c68926a78d062ea1.jpg

latest?cb=20171005160915

We have several possible commanders in Pyre and Phasma, Hux, and Kylo

zro-ff-001874-2.jpg

We even have a possibility of a two more trooper types:

for the the new star wars park, the new mountain trooper:first-order-loose.jpg

as well as the snow trooper:71CtRI8VFlL._SY879_.jpg

and the Flametrooper could be a heavy that works with all corps types:

2000?cb=20161108074131

Finally, for now, we even have a new probe droid.

john-paul-balmet-droidprobefoa-sop2-scre

So, as we see there are a lot of units for making a faction.   I have omitted pictures, for now, of the executioners, officers, BB droids, the gunners and technicians.   

So we very clearly have enough variety. 

The trick, which I will discuss later, is how to make them different enough from the empire mechanically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm all for as many factions as possible. Honestly, I was disappointed that wookiees were released as rebels and not their own faction, and the same for Boba on the imps, as he could have been with Mandalorians or scum.

Either way, I think you've proven there is enough in the FO to fill out a lot of unit choices.

Edited by Tortletalk

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Hate to say it but it seems like the fewer factions the better for this game...that's part of what I don't like about x-wing it just has too many factions. It has stuff like General Grievous flying against Kylo Ren...what?! Adding more factions makes it more confusing and a lot harder to keep the game balanced. Just like what happened to x-wing it got so unbalanced they had to completely remake everything and I don't want them to have to do that with Legion because my wallet can't take another such bitter blow. However, the FO would be so awesome and I think FFG will probably add them anyway sometime later when they start running out of stuff to make for rebel/empire because they know people will buy it

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I am not a massive fan of the sequels, but I can appreciate the aesthetics. The graphics and designs are absolutely something the new films get right. I'm big on conversions, and was even considering converting some IMP stormies into FO stormies.

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You forgot Preatorian Guards as special forces.

11 minutes ago, xmarkusx said:

Would love to have the new trilogy -era stuff out for Legion! Anything rather than Clone Wars -era, it blows my mind that people really nowdays like that ****.

No need for new factions either, Resistance = Rebels and First Order = Empire -as far i'm concerned.

For a lot of younger players that was the star wars they grew up with, like it or not.

I still don't like the prequels as films but I've come to have a greater appreciation for them through the Clone Wars TV show and through various media like comics and video games. Basically the movies sucked, but I like the overall setting and aesthetic and I appreciate the bold vision that George was trying to accomplish (but failed to deliver on)

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Resistance and First Order are redundant. I am sorry but I only see iStormies, iSnowies and iATST. New streamlined apple versions of the good thing. So no, please, we do not need two new factions that look and function as the two existing ones. You may like the aesthetics more (in photos, I do not know how much of a difference would it make in miniatures) but it is 85% the same product again.

 

In the other hand, a CIS army is a complete different thing. New mechanics and new looks for a different faction. I would love to play a game involving B1s, Droidekas…

 

Finally, regarding the lore I prefer the prequels than the sequels BY FAR. At least the prequels contribute with something to the Star Wars universe. You can take a look at the Republic, Coruscant, the Senate, the jedi council, the best lightsaber duel ever… When you talk about Star Wars with the fans almost everybody seems to love the original trilogy FILMS and the prequels CONTENT.

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1 hour ago, Senjius said:

Resistance and First Order are redundant. I am sorry but I only see iStormies, iSnowies and iATST. New streamlined apple versions of the good thing. So no, please, we do not need two new factions that look and function as the two existing ones. You may like the aesthetics more (in photos, I do not know how much of a difference would it make in miniatures) but it is 85% the same product again.

 

In the other hand, a CIS army is a complete different thing. New mechanics and new looks for a different faction. I would love to play a game involving B1s, Droidekas…

 

Finally, regarding the lore I prefer the prequels than the sequels BY FAR. At least the prequels contribute with something to the Star Wars universe. You can take a look at the Republic, Coruscant, the Senate, the jedi council, the best lightsaber duel ever… When you talk about Star Wars with the fans almost everybody seems to love the original trilogy FILMS and the prequels CONTENT.

This. Plus I grew up with CWs

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I'm sure we'll get them at some point- there's clear money to be made.  Not my money though- I don't like the game enough to get a second faction and if I did I'd go CIS/Jedi for aesthetic reasons. 

That said, I'm all for it- I can replace my GCW Kyle Katarn (Solo) with a sequel Kyle Katarn (Luke) and everything will be thematically sound.  

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Katarn said:

I'm sure we'll get them at some point- there's clear money to be made.  Not my money though- I don't like the game enough to get a second faction and if I did I'd go CIS/Jedi for aesthetic reasons. 

That said, I'm all for it- I can replace my GCW Kyle Katarn (Solo) with a sequel Kyle Katarn (Luke) and everything will be thematically sound.  

Someone said CIS ?

*laugh harder in "Roger Roger"*

I can't wait to play them, to be honest.

Edited by RaevenKS

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3 hours ago, Senjius said:

Resistance and First Order are redundant. I am sorry but I only see iStormies, iSnowies and iATST. New streamlined apple versions of the good thing. So no, please, we do not need two new factions that look and function as the two existing ones. You may like the aesthetics more (in photos, I do not know how much of a difference would it make in miniatures) but it is 85% the same product again.

 

That pretty much sums up the sequel trilogy — start with the original look, streamline it, and then toss it back at the audience as if it’s new. They didn’t even bother trying to create a new storyline for the demise of the New Republic. “Oh they’re all hanging out in one solar system that we obliterate” - wait, a galaxy wide government with military and civilian assets only in one solar system? 🤔 They just went straight back to “oh look underdog freedom fighters against evil Nazi analog”.

While the films had flaws, the prequel era had original story and fit into the larger Star Wars story that had already been told. Namely, the decline of a republic and how it transitions to the evil empire we all know from the original trilogy. 

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8 hours ago, xmarkusx said:

Would love to have the new trilogy -era stuff out for Legion! Anything rather than Clone Wars -era, it blows my mind that people really nowdays like that ****.

1

Probably because, despite (or because of) its flaws, the story of the Clone Wars is infinitely better than suckiness of the ST.   The PT is a drawn out, complicated and often convoluted story, with those very facts helping to make it feel more real.  Taxation and corruption leading to separatism, civil war, and eventually a public willing to accept peace and stability at any price?  Sure, it follows historical themes and makes sense.  The ST is a retread of the OT with no real logic behind it.  As others have pointed out, the idea that a galactic government can be taken out in one shot is silly.  We can also argue about how stupid the vast hordes of the FO are considering their backstory, and how silly their ship designs are given their rationale.  

And the "nowdays" comment irks me because I've always been a fan of the Prequels.  Heck, my username on almost every forum I'm on has been the same for the last decade and a half, and comes from a Darkhorse Comics Clone Wars character.

As for the First Order coming to Legion:

WeakWearyEuropeanfiresalamander-size_res

 

I'm sure it will happen eventually.  I don't want it to, but oh well.  I just hope it's at least another year and a half away, at the earliest.  I'm not sure how you'd differentiate their stormtroopers from Imperial ones without making FO troopers OP. 

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7 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Probably because, despite (or because of) its flaws, the story of the Clone Wars is infinitely better than suckiness of the ST.   The PT is a drawn out, complicated and often convoluted story, with those very facts helping to make it feel more real.  Taxation and corruption leading to separatism, civil war, and eventually a public willing to accept peace and stability at any price?  Sure, it follows historical themes and makes sense.  

 

I’ve also always liked the prequels. I even liked all the detail and politics and the “garbage” folks criticize the PT over because it adds the depth that explains how the Republic fell. It also doubles as a cautionary tale about sacrificing freedoms for security, especially under the guise of emergency powers. The Clone Wars cartoon adds to the full depth, even going so far as to offer some CIS sympathetic episodes. The whole event feels more real as a story.

There are specific scenes or dialogue that make me cringe, but I really like the overall product of the PT and Clone Wars. 

The ST is the opposite - there are specific scenes I really like, but the overall product makes me cringe.

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I feel that first order and resistance is just re-skinned empire and rebels.

Say what you want about the prequal movies. For all the flat cgi and poor writing the armies had alot of varied and cool designs. I think clone wars will fit alot better for 2 new factions for Legion.

Then I understand the appeal of the new sleak first order, however they will probably behave just like the empire on the table. 

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I agree, think the sequel factions would be a reimagined army of the originals although if they were to release FO, I would view them as a more elite version of the Empire. E.g cost more but with slightly better stats and or key words. 

Possibly FO stormtroopers running a black dice for attack (without surge) with a defence surge on red. 

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Personally I feel that the new trilogy took away more than it gave and despite my dislike, I don’t mind if they add that faction.

Though to be honest, I’m not sure the rebels resistance has much aside from the potato sack brigade. Remember they would need two sides, cause they’re not just introducing the FO by itself.

 

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Posted (edited)

last year it seemed more people wanted Clone Wars over the sequels. There is just so much more content there with 3 movies and the TV series. 

I like all the movies. After all they are Star Wars, but I prefer the original trilogy. I enjoyed VII. VIII was meh to me. I will wait for IX. VII may have worked better as a stand alone. As mentioned above, there is too much 'missing' between OT and the sequels to be believable. 

Added: I guess the point I am trying to make is there is not enough new content to add them as new factions, just yet. Maybe there will be some other stand alone movies that add content.

Edited by Bohemian73

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

And the "nowdays" comment irks me because I've always been a fan of the Prequels.

Yes! Apparently none of us existed and always hate the prequels lol. I love the lore, characters and the stories behind 1-3. 1 has always held a special place in my heart. 

These 3 movies brought about (in my opinion) the most interesting parts of star wars to date. 

*side note * two new pre/ episode 1 time line books are just around the corner. Queen's Shadow. Master and Apprentice 

Edited by BlueSquadronPilot

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20 hours ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

Clone wars was great. If you genuinely think the wet blanket Vader vs Ben duel was the best thing ever ya got problems. 

 

First order will come eventually, it's inevitable.

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Okay, since people have brought up a good point, about how the resistance needs units, I'll break down what they do have, before breaking how to make the factions play different.

Once again, I'm trying to show how the sequel trilogy, I feel, have enough variety of units to make factions, and I will discuss later, how to make the factions play differently.   So here goes a breakdown for the resistance.

Again, if you don't like the sequels, fine, please try to seperate your dislike from any mechanical discussion.   The purpose here is not SHOULD these factions be made, but instead, to instead to get an idea as to how.  

First, lets look at the number of resistance heroes.

We have General Leia, Poe Dameron, Finn, Rose, Chewbacca and Rey.   Not a bad start, so plenty of named characters, and I will discuss where I feel they should fit.

Lets look at the volume of the forces.   We have two visual types of troopers:

these folk

latest?cb=20170831095747

And these seen on Crait

e187bd2dea7d4f21145f05367fa730a4.jpg

So, to me the former makes a more  visually distinctive model. The helmet also adds versatility to sculpts as the mouth guard can flip up.  The latter is very similar to the rebel troops/pathfinders, so while an option, again the former makes a better choice visually for the basic troop.

Instead of the more visually similar to rebels, second troop, why not pilots?

EP7_IA_115525-2.jpg

here we see Poe Dameron, but there are a number of other pilots.  Poe’s black squadron has been in ground based combat in the comics, and honestly, the resistance is so small that having pilots as a corps unit is fitting as they would have to do double duty.   

So, were it me, I'd have pilots and the first, helmeted resistance trooper as the basic corps units.  Making the faction already visually different from rebellion troops.  

If we look at heavy units, we have two option I think.

the resistance ski speeders

resistance-ski-speeder-b_25397de2.jpeg?r

But I think this makes a better option:

latest?cb=20180113115635

it is under 8 metres long, so viable.  Now this is a tricky vehicle as it technically is unarmed.  But, I think it could work as a very fast and resiliant closed transport.   It could also fly around providing line of sight to other units.  A heavy that functions more as a support.  

Or, and it is a better option, just make it a support on a larger base.   There is nothing stipulating the size or method of support units.   Ski speeder as a heavy, transport pod as a support.   Seems we have two categories down.

another vehicle option is this:

latest?cb=20161229014038

the resistance base (Gian 2-11) speeder.  Again, another option for transport.

Now there are a couple of unit types I haven't touched on yet, as well as how the theme should play.

First off, I will be honest, I cannot think of a special forces unit.   But what I can think of is all the unique heroes. 

First we have the two default choices for commanders; General Leia, which I think would be an interesting choice, she IS the resistance, Personally recruiting nearly everyone, and recieving immense devotion and loyalty. We have a truly great design space.  Honestly, at that stage of the character, I would give her an “—“ for courage.   Not only is she a pariah to the nee republic, but with the personal losses she keeps trudging on.   Also, the resistance idolizes her.  She is a symbol for them, and much of her abilities should focus on inspiring troops.   Also, she is tough, so she deserves that red defense die.  

Second, and this is a tough one, but Poe.  As Leia even states, he is a commander but not a leader.   At least not yet, fully.  He fits the bill technically, but his leader role should be more brash.   More Like Han.

Now here is where I think the resistance should differ.  They have all these heroes that are not fit for commanders.   Rather than focus on vehicles and such like the current faction, the resistance should focus on it's operatives.   Both Rey and Finn could fit this role nicely.  Now let us assume that either a starter or pack that includes the equivalent of a starters units for a single faction are how it is released.   There is no stipulation that the resistance needs to have a support unit in the box.   I would be happy to have General Leia, two of the helmeted troopers mentioned at the beginning, and Rey as an operative in the box.   Now, the downside is this limits the sales of an operative pack, so a support is likely needed.   We could certainly include the above speeder, making the starter have a very mobile baseline.   

I honestly think that the resistance should have a focus on operatives.  

Now, while the choices ARE thin, it does prove that there are at least enough options and variety A) not only make the faction viable, and B) have it visually different from the Rebel faction.

 

Now, one thing I have seen is the, what I consider facetious, argument that the resistance and first order are nothing more than the current units/factions with different keyword.  To that I say; So?   The design of the game is such that ALL units (especially troopers) are just variation on a theme.   Break it down far enough and really, save for dice types, and a keyword stofmtroopers and rebel troops are the exact same thing.  There are only so many combinations to make.

Back to viability of the factions, the backbone of an army is the 3-6 corps units, of which both the Rebels and Imperial only have two vatieties apiece.  So the resistance and first order don't need to have variety for the most numerous units in an army.

Now while the visuals will be similar, I think we can make the factions unique.  While there is no denying that an AT-ST on the first order will be similar to an imperial one, we have seen some differences.   The imperial at-st was only ever seen plodding along, while (at least part of the chassis) of the first order walker was seen running.  This could make the first order walker less of an artilley piece and more of a run up and fight type of play.    

I feel there is ample room to make similar themed units behave differently enough to warrent making the factions seperate.  I've seen the argument that clones will be too similar to stormtroopers, let alone the number of gcw gear/materiel the rebrllon uses (at-rt anyone?) but many of us still want the GCW to show up.   

I feel even if you aren't a fan, you should still be open minded enough to see that it is a possibility.   The disney park opening this year is mired in sequel imagry, and will likely offer more visual diversity and units, much like Resistance (animated show) and Episode IX will add to it.

 

 

 

 

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