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Bayushi Shunsuke

[Ruling] Unmatched Expertise vs Pride

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Unmatched Expertise

Attached character cannot become dishonored.
Forced Reaction: After attached character loses a conflict - discard this attachment.

An ordinary character with Pride, and Unmatched Expertise attached, loses a conflict.


If Pride resolves first, the character does not become dishonored (by Unmatched Expertise), and then Unmatched Expertise is discarded by its Forced Reaction.
If Forced Reactions resolves first, Unmatched Expertise will get discarded, then Pride will dishonor the character.

 

How/who determined whether keywords/Forced resolve first (if they remain in the same nested window)?

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Posted (edited)

These occur in the same “timing” window, and thus will attempt to resolve simultaneously. Because “cannot” trumps the alternative, the character will not be dishonored. (By the time Unmatched Expertise is discarded, Pride has already finished resolving.)

[Tyler Parrott, Jan 4, 2019]

Edited by Bayushi Shunsuke

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The first player chooses the order between simultaneous forced/mandatory effects. See the 2nd bullet point below:

Quote

Forced (Forced Interrupts, Forced Reactions)

While most triggered abilities are optional, some interrupt and reaction abilities are preceded by the word "Forced." Such abilities must be resolved immediately whenever the triggering condition specified in the ability text occurs.

  • For any given triggering condition, forced interrupts take priority and initiate before non-forced interrupts, and forced reactions take priority and initiate before non-forced reactions.
  • If two or more forced and/or mandatory abilities (such as keywords) would initiate at the same moment, the first player determines the order in which the abilities initiate, regardless of who controls the cards bearing those abilities.
  • Each forced ability must resolve completely before the next forced ability to the same triggering condition may initiate.

 

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34 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

The first player chooses the order between simultaneous forced/mandatory effects. See the 2nd bullet point below:

 

Already had a response from Tyler regarding that exact same section.

"That should not be the answer to Unmatched/Pride, as it’s more of a safety net should two things that directly contradict each other try to occur at the same time. Unmatched/Pride is more along the lines of Borderlands/AFWTD—one card says “can’t do the thing” and the other card says “take away the text,” but since all the effects get applied simultaneously, the “cannot” text doesn’t go away until after the thing it prevents has already failed to occur."

[Tyler Parrott, Jan 5, 2019]

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Update from Tyler. with better clarification.

As for Pride/Expertise, ordering only happens for Forced Reactions. Keywords resolve simultaneously with one another as soon as the triggering condition is applied, which in this case would be before the Forced Reaction that discards Unmatched Expertise. You could never sequence them so that a Forced Reaction occurs before a keyword that initiates from the same triggering condition.

 

 

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