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Aristide

Rule question: failed check with triumph

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Posted (edited)

Hi everyone,

First of all, I apologize if this is explained in the core rule book. If that is the case, I would be happy to get the page number.

On a perception check, the player rolls: 1 triumph and 2 advantages while the opposite check roll is: 2 failures.

So, is this a missed check with two advantages or does the triumph still plays a role on a failed check ?

I am also happy to get some examples on how you would interpret and use it.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Aristide

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What is character looking for? If he is trying to find an enemy or look for an item in a room I would say he doesn't find it.

With Advantages and Triumphs I would have him spot signs of the enemy that would help him find them on another check or find a different item.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Aristide said:

Hi everyone,

First of all, I apologize if this is explained in the core rule book. If that is the case, I would be happy to get the page number.

On a perception check, the player rolls: 1 triumph and 2 advantages while the opposite check roll is: 2 failures.

So, is this a missed check with two advantages or does the triumph still plays a role on a failed check ?

I am also happy to get some examples on how you would interpret and use it.

Thanks in advance.

The Triumph does still count as a success, to be measured against the number of failures to determine if the roll succeeds or fails.  However if the number of failures is higher, then they don't perceive anything with their perception.   

HOWEVER:

The Triumph effect itself, the (a really cool/beneficial thing the player gets to choose), does still apply.  So the player can perhaps upgrade their next check (perhaps the reaction roll of the suspected ambush they were trying to perceive).   

To give an example from pop culture, think about the first Predator movie.  There is a point in the story, where the Native American character KNOWS something is tracking them, but he can't find it.  He warns the others that something "isn't right", and continues to scan the jungle for the threat.   To me, that's a good example of a Failed check (he never actually spotted the Predator), but with a Triumph (he KNOWS something IS out there, tracking them, and was able to alert his unit to the danger, making them more aware of the situation, perhaps giving the party a boost die on their initiative roll, or their own reaction check to not be ambushed further down the trail). 

That's one way the results could potentially play out.  That's of course, assuming the Perception check was to spot someone tracking the player.    But the basic concept applies.  However the context of the situation itself would likely inform the player and the GM on what would be good uses for the Triumph.

Edited by KungFuFerret

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2 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

The Triumph does still count as a success, to be measured against the number of failures to determine if the roll succeeds or fails.  However if the number of failures is higher, then they don't perceive anything with their perception.   

HOWEVER:

The Triumph effect itself, the (a really cool/beneficial thing the player gets to choose), does still apply.  So the player can perhaps upgrade their next check (perhaps the reaction roll of the suspected ambush they were trying to perceive).   

To give an example from pop culture, think about the first Predator movie.  There is a point in the story, where the Native American character KNOWS something is tracking them, but he can't find it.  He warns the others that something "isn't right", and continues to scan the jungle for the threat.   To me, that's a good example of a Failed check (he never actually spotted the Predator), but with a Triumph (he KNOWS something IS out there, tracking them, and was able to alert his unit to the danger, making them more aware of the situation, perhaps giving the party a boost die on their initiative roll, or their own reaction check to not be ambushed further down the trail). 

That's one way the results could potentially play out.  That's of course, assuming the Perception check was to spot someone tracking the player.    But the basic concept applies.  However the context of the situation itself would likely inform the player and the GM on what would be good uses for the Triumph.

That's a really good example, I'll have to remember that one.

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Posted (edited)

He didn't spot the creature...

...but he now realizes that something is out there.
...but he inadvertently makes the ambush more difficult by where he goes or what he does.
...but something else ends up drawing the creature's attention away.
...but a random friendly happens by and the creature is now up against worse odds.

Etc.


Of course, the triumph could also do something unrelated to the hidden creature but still beneficial to the PC.

Edited by Garran

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It could be as simple as the person missing the main thing to notice but spots something that hints at it. Such as failing to notice the ambush waiting in a room but notices that the door is rigged to close behind them.

On 3/1/2019 at 2:04 PM, KungFuFerret said:

To give an example from pop culture, think about the first Predator movie.  There is a point in the story, where the Native American character KNOWS something is tracking them, but he can't find it.  He warns the others that something "isn't right", and continues to scan the jungle for the threat. 

Essentially, on a meta level, the PC gets to act on the player knowledge that they failed a check. I like it!

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For passive checks, that is if the players aren't actively looking, I have them roll Vigilance usually.  

The last game I had in Terrinoth (similar but different I know)... the player rolled a cancelled triumph and a wash otherwise... so he failed the knowledge check, but the player used a triumph to "figure out" a weakness and was able to help future actions, even though he didn't know what the creature was.

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