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Dormitz to 70 points, Hyperspace to 10

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6 hours ago, Sabalom Glitz said:

The simplest fix would have been playtest and development but that didn't happen. 

They did develop and playtest, but accounting for all possible combinations and how good/bad people are at flying makes that easier said than done - but I guess it is too difficult for you to understand. 

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It's been said before, but it's unrealistic to expect the devs to be able to play test as much as the thousands of us can within a few days of release. They've honestly done a solid job and second ed has this fail safe option they have decided to use - it's what it's there for and at the flgs last night our entire group, even the 2 FO guys, were super happy with the decision

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3 minutes ago, Sabalom Glitz said:

It is 1 card on 1 type of ship with 6 pilots.. Don't give me that million combinations  b.s.

Some of you must be the actual playtesters to get you so riled up.

Or it is 1 ship out of 4 types, with 28 different pilots spread between them, for a faction that previously was part of a larger one and no longer has access to its resources. There was plenty to playtest and it is completely reasonable that something like this may not have seemed obvious to the playtesters. They are going to have their own focuses and biases as they work through lists and it is understandable that the first thing that comes to mind isn't "Let's stick three of our biggest boats in the same list and see what happens". As was pointed out, we have a great deal more ability to break the game down than a small group of playtesters and it took a couple months for this interaction to be discovered.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Sabalom Glitz said:

It is 1 card on 1 type of ship with 6 pilots.. Don't give me that million combinations  b.s.

Some of you must be the actual playtesters to get you so riled up.

Do you think they were going to sit down to play test and then only test the one magical combination right off the bat? They had to go through as many possible combinations as possible to find stuff like this, and they probably found and fixed several issues. The fact that it's the same ship and card is pretty irrelevant, it's still existing within the faction as a whole, all of which they had to test.
 

Edited by JaxonEvans

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Also, deployment shenanigans were probably not at the forefront of anyone's mind for potentially OP squads. We had Dormitz and similar tech in 1.0 - and they were niche (at best). Likewise Resistance Han, a good-on-paper deployment ability, but barely ever showed up competitively. And even in 2.0, Beckett was available to Scum from the beginning, but hardly made a splash. So it would be understandable if playtesters had most of their attention focused elsewhere.

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FFG never intended for players to be able to get in your face round 1 with big attacks all modded out no matter where you deployed.  It's a obvious one trick pony based on a broken mechanic that anyone should expect them to fix.  Anyone complaining about the change is just upset that they cant play cheesey anymore. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, XPav said:

FO kit released, what, December 1? Midwest scrub posted the seminal work on Triple Upsilons on January 21st.  That's nearly 2 months of public release before this got figured out.  I don't think it's fair to blame FFG for not figuring out this interaction before-hand.

.......

Now I think I need to take Fly Casual, remove all the graphics, and do machine learning with random lists and figure out what lists are actually OP via millions of AI played games.

This, and everyone saying playtest couldn't have reasonably found this: the list (in a slightly poorer form) existed in 1.0. It's not new. Upsilons went down slightly in cost compared to 1.0, gained a couple of better pilots (Tavson and Thanisson), and HTD got better overall, though it both got better and worse.

It should have been seen in playtest. Absolutely. It's not an unobvious combo. Citing that 2 month date means little other than that potentially meaning something for when it got into the wild and started getting copied. I knew that it would be possible (and better than the 1.0 version) at least as early as the conversion kit release (don't remember if HTD was previewed beforehand). I just didn't post about the list online. 

Like I said the keys here to calling this an overreaction is that Dormitz on his own isn't really a problem, and doesn't justify the massive points increase, and FFG consciously made HTD better in 2.0 design. The token stack is the actual problem, but they are so absolutely afraid of erratas that they can't actually fix the problem. All they can do is point things out of existence (c.f. Luke Gunner and Supernatural Reflexes).

If they're actually worried about the list's effect on the current Hyperspace season, and can't overcome their reluctance to errata, then the actual proper thing to do here was remove either Dormitz or HTD from Hyperspace legality, as others have already mentioned. The list is nowhere near a Boogeyman in Extended as people seem to think it is in Hyperspace.

Edited by Eisai
Typo correction.

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