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Thalandar

Point increase soon?

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800 point limits is a feature, not a bug. It helps us make tough choices when at a higher count we might just throw everything, kitchen sink and all, into a list.

I think it’s great the way it is, but if you want to ramp up the points you are free to do that at your game if you find someone who wants to as well. 

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I've had similar thoughts, I think there are a couple of challenges that need to be considered by the tournament scene.

 - Games take about 2.5 hours at the top level, increasing to 1000 points will likely push this out further. In my mind, I'd like to think we will see more vehicles and cool commanders & operatives which won't expand the play time too much however we will likely see the push for activation advantage being a core strategy so I'd expect to see 13-14 activations an army being the norm (6 Corps + 3 Specialists + 3 Support units + 1-2 Commanders / Operatives).

 - The other consideration is the price point if you want to play in line with the rules and tournaments, it will make the game more expensive to get into.

 - Variety is the other thing that might impact the game, if you can get somewhere close to maxing out each slot, then you might find less variety of armies being fielded. I think if they get another 1-2 units for each rank released, this probably becomes less of an issue.

Edited by Digimortal

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21 minutes ago, Thalandar said:

When are we going to see an increase to 1000 point or above for standard games? 800 points is so limiting.

However, I am tempted to play a few games at this point value.

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Just now, GreatMazinkaiser said:

1000 pts plays about the same as 800 pts time wise; it's become the standard size with my group. It allows for list variety you don't get at 800 pts so I definitely recommend it.

I'll have to give it a try.  It would be fun to run 2 centerpiece units (Vader and AT-ST for instance) without the rest of my list being anemic

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It just needs a change in certain terms in the PDF so that infantry swarms don't dominate the victory conditions. Then 800 points wouldn't feel limiting cause you wouldn't "need" to spend all your points on infantry. If they wanted the game to be so infantry focused, they should have made corp 4-8 instead of 3-6 :)

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1 hour ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

1000 pts plays about the same as 800 pts time wise; it's become the standard size with my group. It allows for list variety you don't get at 800 pts so I definitely recommend it.

I second this, i have played half dozen games at 1000 point and it did not increase the time factor. 

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53 minutes ago, Orkimedes said:

1000 would feel just as limiting and take longer than 800.

 

Play a game at 1000 points, i guarantee there won't be a drastic increase, if any, in time.

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From what I have heard we are "Playing Legion as Alex Davy intended" at this point. If I recall correctly, the Armada point increase was planned and known very early on in the release cycle. 

Using the Operations as a guide, Legion at 1000 points should have a different force Org chart, and in organized play should be given 30 minutes more than 800 points. Force Org chart from "Massing Superiority" is as follows: 

Maximum 1000 points
• 1-3 Commander units
• 4-6 Corps units
• 0-3 Special Forces units
• 0-3 Support units
• 0-3 Heavy units
• 0-2 Operative units

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2 hours ago, Thalandar said:

When are we going to see an increase to 1000 point or above for standard games? 800 points is so limiting.

It’s called a 1200 point grand army. We already have it. We need more CORP units. 

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1 hour ago, Pooleman said:

It’s called a 1200 point grand army. We already have it. We need more CORP units. 

 

1 hour ago, Pooleman said:

It’s called a 1200 point grand army. We already have it. We need more CORP units. 

1200 grand army games are not the standard for tournaments. And we will get more corps choices. I dont know if people were paying attention to the full article on star wars celebration in apiril. They mentioned a big Skarif board. That leads me to believe we will see shore troopers for empire, andi am betting on hoth veteran troopers for rebels.

If they do give us more, we will need 1000 point standard games.

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7 hours ago, lologrelol said:

If you go with 1000pts I'd probably set a unit cap at 10-12. Ensures we get to see the big toys.

If ensuring the "big toys" get play is the goal, then a unit cap could just be put in place at the 800 point level, or a requirement that X% of your points are spent on a single unit. 

The only time I have really seen restrictions like that outside of the Force Org chart is Bolt Action tournaments trying to minimize the number of activations per side for time purposes. The official rules have no hard caps on number of units you can spend your points on.

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21 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

If ensuring the "big toys" get play is the goal, then a unit cap could just be put in place at the 800 point level, or a requirement that X% of your points are spent on a single unit. 

The only time I have really seen restrictions like that outside of the Force Org chart is Bolt Action tournaments trying to minimize the number of activations per side for time purposes. The official rules have no hard caps on number of units you can spend your points on.

This is the modern craving for officialness coming out too. People don’t want to play SW, they just want to test out tournament lists. 

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1 minute ago, jocke01 said:

I doubt it unless they add "huge vehicles" or something similar.

However, you can play with 1000 points if you want. Just talk with your opponent.

This seems like the exception to the 800 point setup.  I could see the huge 1600 point Grand Army being used with epic super heavy models.  (see Apocalypse)

Now I don't think they're going to do any Grand Army tournaments since people have already been complaining that they can't get all 6 turns in 2-2 1/2 hours.  I could see this pushing a game up to 3-4 hours.

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We cannot fool ourselves. A 20% increase in points needs more than 2´´´´´´´´.5 hours to be played (at least the 90% of the competitive lists). Not only that, 800 points is the balanced total for our COMMAND CARDS. Less or more activations change abruptly the way a game is played. If you have ever play a game with just the core box contents you know what I am talking about. You only have a commander, 2 corps and 1 support so it is no surprise that 66% of the time there are only corps in your random stack of orders. The opposite problem appears in bigger than 800 points games.

So I recommend 800 points for tournaments and whatever you want for casual games (I have played a very funny 1500 points game).

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25 minutes ago, Senjius said:

We cannot fool ourselves. A 20% increase in points needs more than 2´´´´´´´´.5 hours to be played (at least the 90% of the competitive lists). Not only that, 800 points is the balanced total for our COMMAND CARDS. Less or more activations change abruptly the way a game is played. If you have ever play a game with just the core box contents you know what I am talking about. You only have a commander, 2 corps and 1 support so it is no surprise that 66% of the time there are only corps in your random stack of orders. The opposite problem appears in bigger than 800 points games.

So I recommend 800 points for tournaments and whatever you want for casual games (I have played a very funny 1500 points game).

We aren't fool ourselves, have you not read our posts? There is no significant time increase at all. I have played 6+ 1000 point games and 2 1200 point games, all in less than 2.5 hours. 

I think the nah sayers here need to actually play a 1000 point game before you come to your conclusions.

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Coming from a 40k background, i would hate to see the game go too big.  That said, 1000 points feels good, it allows for more than one center piece currently for imperials and really gives rebels that feel that there is more heroes on the table which is what the story is about.  But my local area isn't as 'tournament' driven as some so can image 1000 pt tournament lists just are more spammy and can see argument to keep it at 800.  But in terms of time, find 1000 point and even 1200 to not be much longer if sometimes shorter due to increased fire power on the field to keep game around same pace.

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