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It's not about if the SSD is delayed....

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3 hours ago, scipio83 said:

Exactly.  Like, chess hasn't had any new releases in literally CENTURIES, and it's freaking impossible to find anyone to play the game with.  Why bother?  We'll never get any cool new pieces.  I mean, the en passant errata was pretty neat, but that's not enough to hold me over for 500 years. 

Armada chess is dead.

I dont think Armada is dead, and comparing Chess and Armada is apple and oranges. Chess is an abstract board game Armada is a customizable miniature game. I was simply trying to explain peoples views.

 

3 hours ago, scipio83 said:

 

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belittling comments like this do nothing to help the community, infact the opposite.  The community needs to stay positive and inviting, and I dont think the game is dead in fact it is in good health, just explaining peoples views looking in especially people that play customizable miniature games.

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12 hours ago, RedPriest said:

Yes. "Losing interest in a game because new toys aren't being released every other month," is insane. You either want to play a Star Wars fleet combat game or you don't.

Did you mean "Losing interest in a game because new toys aren't being released every other year"?

 

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10 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

This is where a community of positivity can really help.

 

Sure, if they've bought in a Core set and are expanding, how do they know that they're apparently "desperately missing" to buy into Squadron packs, if they are not told?   Then it basically boils down into how they are told...  If they're told in a negative way, of course, they'll view it in a negative way.  If they're told, shown, allowed to borrow, and fostered in a community that plays, then they don't feel like they're missing anything of their own - because things are supported and useful, and when things come around, then they can indulge rather than  catch up ...

 

I hate feeling like this is "my secret to success"...  but its apparently is...  

 

 

I agree that positivity in the community is hugely important however your argument that they won't know they're missing squadrons is, I think, nonsense. I open my new core and look at all the cool ships with the X-wings and Ties, I wonder if I can get other cool iconic Star Wars fighters and I check online and see that yes they exist but no they aren't available. I haven't encountered another player at all at this point. 

I may be abnormal (who am I kidding?) but I always do a bit of research before I buy into a new game; I read reviews, look at available expansions, look at availability and watch batreps and play throughs online. If it looks like I won't be able to get hold of the stuff I want or if the game doesn't look well supported then I may well delay my purchase, chances are that by the time availability improves I may have moved on to something else. 

Unless you are joining an existing thriving Armada community, I imagine this might well put potential new players off. 

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It’s easy to get a negative mindset when it comes to Armada. It’s far superior to X-wing, but because it’s “second fiddle,” plays slower (overall complaint I’ve heard several times), and takes far more effort before and during play to figure out a winning build it doesn’t get the spotlight. 

There’s also the recognition of the ships. Yes, Star Destroyers are iconic, but the more iconic and easily recognized models in Armada are baby choking hazards for infants and are not immediate eye catchers to the common passerby. 

Then there’s the community. Try posting something about a third faction option for this game and prepare to be “boarded from the stern” by the community crossing their collective arms and barking negativity at you. Yet look at what it did for X-wing when they were running low on options. Also, what other iconic ships can they put out there that will make the average (emphasis on that word) passerby say “cool, that’s the (ship name here). I’ve always wanted a miniature of that. What’s this game?”

So what is Fantasy Flight supposed to do with all of that? Invest time and effort into it? Engage the fiery community who will hurl insults even when given what they asked for? Face it, this is a tough game to design for and the timing of its overall release second to X-wing compounds that difficulty.

Look at what you’ve got in your collection, be real about this game in relation to others FFG is responsible for, and play (re: ENJOY) it whenever you can. 

It’s not and will never be in league with pretties like X-wing and now Legion. Quit trying to act like the issues with FFG and the community regarding Armada are an easy fix. 

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54 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

There’s also the recognition of the ships. Yes, Star Destroyers are iconic, but the more iconic and easily recognized models in Armada are baby choking hazards for infants and are not immediate eye catchers to the common passerby.

In the Star Wars universe, what ship is more iconic than an Imperial Star Destroyer?  Seriously.

55 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

Also, what other iconic ships can they put out there that will make the average (emphasis on that word) passerby say “cool, that’s the (ship name here). I’ve always wanted a miniature of that. What’s this game?”

The iconic ships for the Galactic Civil War are already in play, or in the case of the SSD, about to be.  Again, Imperial Star Destroyers are what makes people stop and ask about the game.  Based on the half a dozen demos I have done in the last six months, people always tell me that the ISD is the reason they stopped at the table.

1 hour ago, Flavorabledeez said:

Look at what you’ve got in your collection, be real about this game in relation to others FFG is responsible for, and play (re: ENJOY) it whenever you can.

Could not agree more.

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1 hour ago, Flavorabledeez said:

Then there’s the community. Try posting something about a third faction option for this game and prepare to be “boarded from the stern” by the community crossing their collective arms and barking negativity at you. Yet look at what it did for X-wing when they were running low on options.

I'll bite.  I am not a fan of the third faction (usually a Pirate faction) because it severely degrades the original Armada theme of the Galactic Civil War.  For starters, it likely add a lot of ships that are unrecognizable to the casual Star Wars fan, which is a problem to get new people into the game (look at how many ships in X-Wing meet this criteria; and this started at least in Wave 6 with the M3-A Scyk Interceptor, or at the earliest with the HWK-290 in Wave 3, so it wasn't necessarily when they started running low on options).  Second, the power creep of EU ships in X-Wing actually led to these unrecognizable ships being the most powerful in the game, leading to a 2.0 (that I'm told still has a lot of issues).  Given this, I don't think X-Wing is the best example of how Armada should do things and I personally believe a Pirate faction would be bad for the game (but at least I've come around on Clone Wars ships, so there is a place for discussion).  What I'm trying to get across is that many people are providing legitimate reasons why they do not want a third faction, as opposed to just saying "No, get away from my game."

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Re the problem with other factions, surely there's a way to modify victory conditions in a game to simulate certain types of conflicts.

For example, a rogue faction could only have to board and plunder an imperial ship to win.

Or an imperial player needs to blockade a planet at the centre of the map.

I guess what I'm getting at, is that the game doesn't necessarily need to be equal points to be fun. It would allow for FFG to come up with a book of scenarios to introduce a faction that would take a while to get up to tournament level. And would possible breath new life into the game, maybe linking it up with Legion and X-wing?

Anyway, I'm sure these aren't exactly new ideas.

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55 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

In the Star Wars universe, what ship is more iconic than an Imperial Star Destroyer?  Seriously.

Dude, the Falcon, followed by TIE fighters and X-wings, all of which are well represented focal points in X-wing.

Having A ship (the Star Destroyer) vs 3+ types of ships as eye catchers makes X-wing the “prettier” game to most average folks. 

44 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

I'll bite.  I am not a fan of the third faction (usually a Pirate faction) because it severely degrades the original Armada theme of the Galactic Civil War.  For starters, it likely add a lot of ships that are unrecognizable to the casual Star Wars fan, which is a problem to get new people into the game (look at how many ships in X-Wing meet this criteria; and this started at least in Wave 6 with the M3-A Scyk Interceptor, or at the earliest with the HWK-290 in Wave 3, so it wasn't necessarily when they started running low on options).  Second, the power creep of EU ships in X-Wing actually led to these unrecognizable ships being the most powerful in the game, leading to a 2.0 (that I'm told still has a lot of issues).  Given this, I don't think X-Wing is the best example of how Armada should do things and I personally believe a Pirate faction would be bad for the game (but at least I've come around on Clone Wars ships, so there is a place for discussion).  What I'm trying to get across is that many people are providing legitimate reasons why they do not want a third faction, as opposed to just saying "No, get away from my game."

I’m all good with that response, because it lacks vitriol (and I agree with a lot of your points).

But if this game is to continue, it’s going to most likely need a new faction, or the plural form of that. Let’s also keep in mind that it would be doing so from a less favorable starting point compared to X-wing due to the size of its fan base.

However, I’ll easily accept the idea that it could also continue with an offering of building on the concept of campaigns since that’s an itch X-wing doesn’t seem to be interested in scratching for a lot of players. I’m actually really surprised the SSD doesn’t come with a campaign. Maybe that should be the focal point of all of these conversations: what Armada offers that X-wing doesn’t, and FFG should build on that. 

An example is with the SSD release FFG doing a massive campaign that all the stores participating in report their results that get compiled into a larger narrative, similar to what Games Workshop did with their Lord of the Rings game. That could result in some time in the spotlight as well as article space

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I think FFG just need to look outside the box a bit more with how they support the game. More Corellian Conflict-esque content would be nice. What about officer versions of commanders or characters like Commander Skywalker or General Solo? An expansion doesn't have to be models all the time. 

I'm in agreement that Armada is probably a much better game than Xwing but a game of Xwing can be played in an hour with little prep, Armada takes a fair bit more time and organisation. This is probably the main reason for the popularity of x wing among Star Wars fans, that and the buy in appears cheaper on paper. 

 

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3 hours ago, Admiral Calkins said:

 Aren’t we talking about Armada though (meaning capital ships)?

I’m just talking about ships from Star Wars. If Armada were the only game in the genre then we’d be talking capital ships. Unfortunately it’s not the only game, and its direct competitor has the same license, is made by the same company, and has the benefit of more recognizable ships at a scale in which they visually shine.

 

2 hours ago, RedPriest said:

At this point, for the game to continue, it simply needs to be kept in stock.

Unless there is an Armada fire sale, I think game is continuing just fine.

Even if it is discontinued, I'm pretty sure my dice will still work and my cards will not suddenly go blank.

The issue of accessibility comes in to play though, and by that I mean places to play Armada.

I’m not exactly taking sides here, but I get why people who can’t find a place to play this game feel as if it’s dying. I myself live in a city with two gaming stores twenty minutes south of another city with three gaming stores; none of which carry or play Armada anymore (and yes, I’ve tried to get it going again). If I want to play in a tournament it’s a two and a half hour drive. This compared to when wave 2 released and there were three places to play locally. So I can get why people believe the game is dying. Something has caused it to change in popularity, which is unfortunate because the game has only gotten better.

The state of Armada is clearly through whatever lenses you choose to see it through.

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My issue is the same with timing. I have a 45 mins travel to my local shop. Then a good 30 mins to set up. Then lets say 2 hours to play. Then a 30 mins to pack up. Then a 45 mins to drive home. that is 4.5 hours to play just one game. and the travelling is tiring enough, especially if its not a competition!!!

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8 minutes ago, Stinchy said:

My issue is the same with timing. I have a 45 mins travel to my local shop. Then a good 30 mins to set up. Then lets say 2 hours to play. Then a 30 mins to pack up. Then a 45 mins to drive home. that is 4.5 hours to play just one game. and the travelling is tiring enough, especially if its not a competition!!!

Do you have gaming stores nearby that don’t support Armada? If so, did they at any point? Also, do people there play X-wing?

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12 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I’m just talking about ships from Star Wars. If Armada were the only game in the genre then we’d be talking capital ships. Unfortunately it’s not the only game, and its direct competitor has the same license, is made by the same company, and has the benefit of more recognizable ships at a scale in which they visually shine.

Please reread your initial post.  You state that "the more iconic and easily recognizable models in Armada are baby choking hazards for infants and are not immediate eye catchers to the common passerby."  So, you are talking about Armada in an Armada forum, which inherently means capital ships, because that is what the game is about.

X-Wing and Armada are completely different games that appeal to different types of people.  One caters to an individual that prefers tactical combat and the other an individual who prefers strategic combat, neither of which is objectively better than the other.  And that's great that you think one is a "prettier" game (miniature wise) than the other.  Given that you are posting on an Armada forum, I respectfully disagree.

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Just now, Admiral Calkins said:

Please reread your initial post.  You state that "the more iconic and easily recognizable models in Armada are baby choking hazards for infants and are not immediate eye catchers to the common passerby."  So, you are talking about Armada in an Armada forum, which inherently means capital ships, because that is what the game is about.

X-Wing and Armada are completely different games that appeal to different types of people.  One caters to an individual that prefers tactical combat and the other an individual who prefers strategic combat, neither of which is objectively better than the other.  And that's great that you think one is a "prettier" game (miniature wise) than the other.  Given that you are posting on an Armada forum, I respectfully disagree.

Yeah, and by those more recognizable ships being choking hazards I meant fighters and ships modified enough to fight like them, such as the Falcon, in Armada. They’re not at the forefront of visibility in the game.

And I’m posting on the FFG forums, that just happen to have an Armada subsection,  So you can choose to see it one way, but unfortunately a lot of people often compare Armada to X-wing which is understandable why they do so.

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I have recently just bought 2.0 for x wing and some expansions. And yes the models look cool, the game is simpler to play, a lot of fun and easier and quicker to set up. But i prefer armada by a long way and i think due to the nature of the length of setup and game play is the only reason the game is not as popular........ As long as I can find someone to play i will play armada for as long as i can !!!!!!!!!!!

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6 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

Yeah, and by those more recognizable ships being choking hazards I meant fighters and ships modified enough to fight like them, such as the Falcon, in Armada. They’re not at the forefront of visibility in the game.

And I’m posting on the FFG forums, that just happen to have an Armada subsection,  So you can choose to see it one way, but unfortunately a lot of people often compare Armada to X-wing which is understandable why they do so.

I know what you meant, but I still don't think that you are getting that they are not the main attraction in Armada.  If you want those ships as your centerpieces, play X-Wing; no one is going to fault you for that.  They are not at the forefront of visibility of this game because the game is about capital ships.  Big, iconic capital ships.

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2 hours ago, Admiral Calkins said:

I know what you meant, but I still don't think that you are getting that they are not the main attraction in Armada.  If you want those ships as your centerpieces, play X-Wing; no one is going to fault you for that.  They are not at the forefront of visibility of this game because the game is about capital ships.  Big, iconic capital ships.

I originally stated I’d put the emphasis on the AVERAGE passerby being drawn to X-wing over Armada due to the amount of models of iconic ships. Upon reflection of that, I realize it’s a broken concept. Who is an average passerby for local game and comic stores? I don’t think there is such a thing. I think I’ve broadbrushed a very diverse group when it comes to mentalities. They all like what they like and will be drawn to what reflects that.

Maybe I’m admittedly kind of bitter, and perhaps that’s the crux of most of the negativity. I played X-wing first and enjoyed it, but eventually it just got to be too much. Then Armada came along and it’s an amazing game, even years later when X-wing started to stumble. 

I’d like to see the game continue, I’d also like to see it grow in popularity, but how best for FFG to do that? I think that’s what the real question is. I don’t think I’d like to see it follow the X-wing model of a new loose faction just for the sake of continuation for product. I believe campaigns can keep it going, but I’m not sure for how long.

Maybe they should just cut off this era and move to another like the Clone Wars, then when that’s over move to another era. Maybe the factions in those eras could be considered different factions for tournament play, leading to a total of six.

 I’m really spitballing here, man. Basically, I, like others, just want to see this game continue to be awesome and succeed. 

 

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3 hours ago, Stinchy said:

I have recently just bought 2.0 for x wing and some expansions. And yes the models look cool, the game is simpler to play, a lot of fun and easier and quicker to set up. But i prefer armada by a long way and i think due to the nature of the length of setup and game play is the only reason the game is not as popular........ As long as I can find someone to play i will play armada for as long as i can !!!!!!!!!!!

Triple Cymoons setup and teardown quickly :D

That aside, I fully agree with you on this. Storage solutions is very important for Armada. I pack my stuff using @SirWillibald paper boxes until wave6 coz they're easier to take out than the original plastic packaging. But even it takes a little while still with the taking out and keeping the list. A typical Armada list will often have many moving parts(I also tend to shy away from squadron ball lists because of this). You will have several ships, each needing their own dials, cards and tokens, and squadrons too. Having your dials, tokens, etc. sorted and cards together for the list beforehand or just agreeing to refer to a list builder app(non-tournament games ofc) will speed things up. There is also the 'bring only the list that you are playing' tip which I only recently started doing as previously I always brought my collection and the kitchen sink so I got more lists to play if time permits haha

Edited by Muelmuel

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18 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I originally stated I’d put the emphasis on the AVERAGE passerby being drawn to X-wing over Armada due to the amount of models of iconic ships. Upon reflection of that, I realize it’s a broken concept. Who is an average passerby for local game and comic stores? I don’t think there is such a thing. I think I’ve broadbrushed a very diverse group when it comes to mentalities. They all like what they like and will be drawn to what reflects that.

You're spot on with this.  I'm lucky in that my game store on post (Fort Huachuca) has their tables in the PX hallway, so everybody entering the exchange can see us playing.  Definitely not the normal crowd, but it leads to whole families stopping and checking it out.

22 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

Maybe they should just cut off this era and move to another like the Clone Wars, then when that’s over move to another era. Maybe the factions in those eras could be considered different factions for tournament play, leading to a total of six.

I really like this idea, but I'm unsure of how popular it would be.

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He's right it is not a good sign. 

 

It's the exact same timeline when HBS killed Golem Arcana. The releases slowed. The communications got less and less frequent. They even had one more big release the Merc factions "Bone Golem" colossi. 

HBS is a much smaller company than FFG, mayne a dozen or less products so the situation could be very different, but the simalarities are the same. 

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I am not suprised that the SSD is delayed at all, as I have said before. Between its size, its cost, its power level, ect. I knew it was going to be a hard item. Before it was announced I knew a guy who wanted it to come out badly, I told him if it got announced it would only cause problems. Between being a massive item that will eat up the production, R&D, and every thing.

I don't know if I was right. But I, personally, didnt want the SSD ever. I'd rather they had started the CW stuff, and either alternated content or announced the SSD as alternative release. Because maybe we'd get more content. But now if they announced the CW stuff people would riot about the SSD.

I suspect we'll hear about it at Adepticon, then maybe hear something at SW Celebration.

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4 hours ago, Ling27 said:

I am not suprised that the SSD is delayed at all, as I have said before. Between its size, its cost, its power level, ect. I knew it was going to be a hard item. Before it was announced I knew a guy who wanted it to come out badly, I told him if it got announced it would only cause problems. Between being a massive item that will eat up the production, R&D, and every thing.

But hasn’t the SSD been in testing since wave 3-ish? It shouldn’t be eating R&D time now surely. And if anything legion & xwing are likely eating up the production capacity.

For me it’s more about communication or lack of. It was start of August they announced the SSD and since then barely a word. How hard is it to knock out an article? And I’m no marketing expert but investing in your biggest single model release ever & then not singing about it at every available opportunity seems an odd marketing choice to say the least.

It seems like a lot of people here want to give FFG their Armada money but for some reason they are making that difficult 😆

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