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Captain Lackwit

The Rebellion: Why they aren't, and never have been the good guys.

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The Rebellion is a Terrorist Group.

A misled, misinformed, heart of gold but at its core Terrorist Group led Vindicated by the actions of two men, who reacted to The Rebellion's actions years before.

LOTHAL
latest?cb=20140420004450

It all began here on Lothal, every last bit of it. The days of The Republic were better, yes. They were more free, more democratic, but anybody who's watched the prequels and really paid attention can tell you how terribly clogged the political system had become. How impossible it was to do anything, even rendering military assistance to Naboo- a world that was genuinely under attack in a coporate-military occupation. It's terrible. After this, The Republic would end up building a standing army. Something they didn't really have, and this is a bad thing- something we will come back to.

But if you watched Rebels, you saw it. The Empire's presence really was not so terrible. It wasn't great! But they weren't just making people disappear into the night... Unless they were Force Sensitive. But that's the biggest issue with The Empire- the whole, Sith Leader thing. Which is the second best case against it.

Thing is, as the Lothal Rebels continued to escalate their operations, attacks, attempts to liberate the people of Lothal (and yes, Imperial Occupation had apparently made the world fairly polluted), The Empire had to escalate. No, Empire Day being mandatory attendance isn't great and punished dissent isn't great either, but baring through it is equally livable.

But you know what's worse?

Open military action against and by The Empire on Lothal. As time went on, The Imperials there were forced to go through more and more brutal ways of stamping out dissent. Propoganda was plastered everywhere, heavier curfews were enforced, ownerships of private establishments were taken over by The Empire. All after The Rebels did their things. This was not a natural course- this was reactive.

Persistent, more successful Rebel action demanded the presence of Tarkin himself. This group of Rebels was different from the others The Empire had fought, more principled, more goal oriented. They were organizing and had to be stopped. By and large,  Citizen dissent was quelled by The Empire here, and it was even used as the staging ground and production facility for the next generation of Imperial TIE Fighters. Made specifically to stamp out this new Rebellion, as TIE/ln Starfighters had been PERFECTLY adequate beforehand.

You know what happened next. You know all of it.

The Empire ended up blowing up Alderaan and it was terrible, at that moment they lost any "We're not all that bad!" right. They became the villains- but would they have ever done this if not for The Rebellion? I do not actually think so.

But what happened after that? A time of relative peace? Yes. but also a huge disarmament act that was enforced across the entirety of Republic Space... Failing to have learned from the lessons beforehand, and they could not even keep a single capital. They moved from world to world to world constantly.

The Rebellion defeated The Galactic Empire, learned nothing from The Galactic Civil War, tried to revert The Galaxy to a state almost 50 years prior...

latest?cb=20181009053535

And rightfully paid the price.

"Lackwit, it's terrible to say that price payment was justified."

Is it? Is it really? The New Republic could barely police anything but their current core governmental system, which meant that if any extremist group- like The First Order, actually did get power, then they would be powerless to stop it. Guess what- they were exactly that. Their entire stock of T-85s was destroyed here. They had less than a thousand multirole starfighters. How weak must their military be? It's literally just that fleet. How pathetic were they? Beyond pathetic. Far worse than The Galactic Republic of old. They weren't even hardly a shadow of The Rebellion at their full might.

How sad is that?

The Rebellion managed to install a government that couldn't even survive a single decisive strike. They made themselves vulnerable to losing in a single attack. Now The First Order is in charge again, all because they reinstalled a susceptible to corruption senate and expected everybody to play by their rules of warfare.

I don't think I want The Resistance to win in Episode XI.

The First Order is terrible. They're awful. There is nothing good about them. They are led by the most EXTREME Imperials, but worse yet, they were born from the GCW and Operation Cinder- which looks like Child's Play compared to Hosnian prime. There's a saying, "The greatest thing The Devil ever accomplished was convincing people he didn't exist."- which is what The Empire did. They destroyed themselves and what remained infected The Susceptible Republic, and kept them weak.

But it could have been stopped. It didn't have to be this way. Two ways.

1: The Rebellion doesn't turn into actual idiots and demilitarize heavily, keeping a real protective force- because The Galaxy would GET IT after experiencing Cinder. (Seriously! Loyal Imperial Worlds!? YIKES!)
2: The Rebellion never happens.

We don't know what happens if The Rebellion never occurs, but I can tell you this. The Rebellion is the single most important organization in Star Wars- because their actions changed the landscape forever...

And as of the Sequel Trilogy era, for the absolute worst.

As it stands right now, The Alliance to Restore The Republic are not the good guys.

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2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Is it? Is it really? The New Republic could barely police anything but their current core governmental system, which meant that if any extremist group- like The First Order, actually did get power, then they would be powerless to stop it. Guess what- they were exactly that. Their entire stock of T-85s was destroyed here. They had less than a thousand multirole starfighters. How weak must their military be? It's literally just that fleet. How pathetic were they? Beyond pathetic. Far worse than The Galactic Republic of old. They weren't even hardly a shadow of The Rebellion at their full might.

How sad is that?

The Rebellion managed to install a government that couldn't even survive a single decisive strike. They made themselves vulnerable to losing in a single attack. Now The First Order is in charge again, all because they reinstalled a susceptible to corruption senate and expected everybody to play by their rules of warfare.

A big part of how the story is resolved will be how the other military forces out there are shown. 

One thing which gets made clear in the Aftermath novels is that Mon Mothma didn't want a New Republic to turn into either the Old Republic (centralised, useless and weak) or the Empire (centralised, well armed and repressive). That meant - according to her discussions with her aide - not "not having a military" but "dispersing the military" - the 'Republic fleet' would be relatively small and well equipped, but the bulk of the military power in the galaxy would be the various system defence fleets - national guard analogues - the Mon Calamari fleet, Kashyykian fleet, and so on, which in case of war would then be 'drawn in' and rallied together under a Republic fleet banner, in a similar fashion to NATO or the UN. 

Obviously, that plan relies on having a central command to do the rallying, which is a problem since Hosnian Prime did it's impression of a thermal detonator and presumably took not just the Republic fleet but the Republic admiralty with it. 

What you're left with is (as I understand it) a bunch of local system fleets who aren't happy detaching major elements of their forces because (a) there's no-one obvious to give them to because the central command is gone (and the Resistance is seen by many as a bunch of terrorists led by Vader's daughter) and (b) a First Order destroyer squadron could come haring over the hyper limit the moment they're gone. There might be enough warships out there to stand off the First Order if they got concentrated, but where do you concentrate them and who's in command?

Now, don't get me wrong. If that is the case, not having a dispersed command structure too was stupid. But war-weary governments do do stupid things. World War 1 is a good case in point.

Whether I've understood it right or not, we'll need to wait and see. But it's worth noting that even if they are still about, The Really Bad Week basically wiped out the Republic's Quick-Reaction force, so even if other warships are there to be mobilized, expecting a large-scale fleet deployment in what feels like a couple of days, tops, since anyone knew Starkiller Base was even a thing is optimistic at best. That doesn't mean those fleets aren't there. 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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They were literally making people disappear into the night. To steal their land. To punish them for bad-mouthing the empire. For any slight, perceived or real, the punishment was death or enslavement. Plus they killed whole worlds. If that’s not an evil empire then China having a million ethnic Muslims in reeducation camps isn’t evil. North Korea executing anyone who is perceived as a threat to Kim isn’t evil.

 

Nah. They’re all evil.

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11 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

The Rebellion is a Terrorist Group.

A misled, misinformed, heart of gold but at its core Terrorist Group led Vindicated by the actions of two men, who reacted to The Rebellion's actions years before.

LOTHAL
latest?cb=20140420004450

It all began here on Lothal, every last bit of it. The days of The Republic were better, yes. They were more free, more democratic, but anybody who's watched the prequels and really paid attention can tell you how terribly clogged the political system had become. How impossible it was to do anything, even rendering military assistance to Naboo- a world that was genuinely under attack in a coporate-military occupation. It's terrible. After this, The Republic would end up building a standing army. Something they didn't really have, and this is a bad thing- something we will come back to.

But if you watched Rebels, you saw it. The Empire's presence really was not so terrible. It wasn't great! But they weren't just making people disappear into the night... Unless they were Force Sensitive. But that's the biggest issue with The Empire- the whole, Sith Leader thing. Which is the second best case against it.

Thing is, as the Lothal Rebels continued to escalate their operations, attacks, attempts to liberate the people of Lothal (and yes, Imperial Occupation had apparently made the world fairly polluted), The Empire had to escalate. No, Empire Day being mandatory attendance isn't great and punished dissent isn't great either, but baring through it is equally livable.

But you know what's worse?

Open military action against and by The Empire on Lothal. As time went on, The Imperials there were forced to go through more and more brutal ways of stamping out dissent. Propoganda was plastered everywhere, heavier curfews were enforced, ownerships of private establishments were taken over by The Empire. All after The Rebels did their things. This was not a natural course- this was reactive.

Persistent, more successful Rebel action demanded the presence of Tarkin himself. This group of Rebels was different from the others The Empire had fought, more principled, more goal oriented. They were organizing and had to be stopped. By and large,  Citizen dissent was quelled by The Empire here, and it was even used as the staging ground and production facility for the next generation of Imperial TIE Fighters. Made specifically to stamp out this new Rebellion, as TIE/ln Starfighters had been PERFECTLY adequate beforehand.

You know what happened next. You know all of it.

The Empire ended up blowing up Alderaan and it was terrible, at that moment they lost any "We're not all that bad!" right. They became the villains- but would they have ever done this if not for The Rebellion? I do not actually think so.

But what happened after that? A time of relative peace? Yes. but also a huge disarmament act that was enforced across the entirety of Republic Space... Failing to have learned from the lessons beforehand, and they could not even keep a single capital. They moved from world to world to world constantly.

The Rebellion defeated The Galactic Empire, learned nothing from The Galactic Civil War, tried to revert The Galaxy to a state almost 50 years prior...

latest?cb=20181009053535

And rightfully paid the price.

"Lackwit, it's terrible to say that price payment was justified."

Is it? Is it really? The New Republic could barely police anything but their current core governmental system, which meant that if any extremist group- like The First Order, actually did get power, then they would be powerless to stop it. Guess what- they were exactly that. Their entire stock of T-85s was destroyed here. They had less than a thousand multirole starfighters. How weak must their military be? It's literally just that fleet. How pathetic were they? Beyond pathetic. Far worse than The Galactic Republic of old. They weren't even hardly a shadow of The Rebellion at their full might.

How sad is that?

The Rebellion managed to install a government that couldn't even survive a single decisive strike. They made themselves vulnerable to losing in a single attack. Now The First Order is in charge again, all because they reinstalled a susceptible to corruption senate and expected everybody to play by their rules of warfare.

I don't think I want The Resistance to win in Episode XI.

The First Order is terrible. They're awful. There is nothing good about them. They are led by the most EXTREME Imperials, but worse yet, they were born from the GCW and Operation Cinder- which looks like Child's Play compared to Hosnian prime. There's a saying, "The greatest thing The Devil ever accomplished was convincing people he didn't exist."- which is what The Empire did. They destroyed themselves and what remained infected The Susceptible Republic, and kept them weak.

But it could have been stopped. It didn't have to be this way. Two ways.

1: The Rebellion doesn't turn into actual idiots and demilitarize heavily, keeping a real protective force- because The Galaxy would GET IT after experiencing Cinder. (Seriously! Loyal Imperial Worlds!? YIKES!)
2: The Rebellion never happens.

We don't know what happens if The Rebellion never occurs, but I can tell you this. The Rebellion is the single most important organization in Star Wars- because their actions changed the landscape forever...

And as of the Sequel Trilogy era, for the absolute worst.

As it stands right now, The Alliance to Restore The Republic are not the good guys.

Let me guess, you're an Imperial player? 

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8 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

They were literally making people disappear into the night. To steal their land. To punish them for bad-mouthing the empire. For any slight, perceived or real, the punishment was death or enslavement. Plus they killed whole worlds.

Listen, you can't make an omelette without blasting eggs with a superlaser.  No one's saying the Empire was perfect; just that there are worse things than a complete lack of freedom and the constant fear of death..

Edited by JJ48

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12 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

would they have ever done this if not for The Rebellion? I do not actually think so.

In this case, you are just plain wrong. The Empire began building the Death Star before the Rebellion was formed, before Lothal, and according to canon sources, even before the end of the Clone Wars. The Empire intended to use a weapon of mass destruction from the very beginning. By the end of the Clone Wars, there was no external force big enough or powerful enough to challenge the Galactic Empire and no reason to continue to pour credits and resources into a Superweapon... unless it was to be used on it's own citizens.

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19 minutes ago, Nspace said:

In this case, you are just plain wrong. The Empire began building the Death Star before the Rebellion was formed, before Lothal, and according to canon sources, even before the end of the Clone Wars. The Empire intended to use a weapon of mass destruction from the very beginning. By the end of the Clone Wars, there was no external force big enough or powerful enough to challenge the Galactic Empire and no reason to continue to pour credits and resources into a Superweapon... unless it was to be used on it's own citizens.

You've got it all wrong!  The so-called Death Star was initially a hyper-efficient mining laser intended only for uninhabited worlds.  Then the Imperials saw that hideous abomination of a TIE that Sabine painted and realized that the Rebellion must be stopped at all costs!

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8 hours ago, JJH_BATMAN said:

Let me guess, you're an Imperial player? 

Off the mark. I'm a Resistance player. Shocking, I know. But no. I just think The Rebellion left everything in a terrible state.

15 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

They were literally making people disappear into the night. To steal their land. To punish them for bad-mouthing the empire. For any slight, perceived or real, the punishment was death or enslavement. Plus they killed whole worlds. If that’s not an evil empire then China having a million ethnic Muslims in reeducation camps isn’t evil. North Korea executing anyone who is perceived as a threat to Kim isn’t evil.

 

Nah. They’re all evil.

Ask The Seperatists and The Republic wasn't much better. The Jedi were quite fond of the whole stealing people thing.

17 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

A big part of how the story is resolved will be how the other military forces out there are shown. 

One thing which gets made clear in the Aftermath novels is that Mon Mothma didn't want a New Republic to turn into either the Old Republic (centralised, useless and weak) or the Empire (centralised, well armed and repressive). That meant - according to her discussions with her aide - not "not having a military" but "dispersing the military" - the 'Republic fleet' would be relatively small and well equipped, but the bulk of the military power in the galaxy would be the various system defence fleets - national guard analogues - the Mon Calamari fleet, Kashyykian fleet, and so on, which in case of war would then be 'drawn in' and rallied together under a Republic fleet banner, in a similar fashion to NATO or the UN. 

Obviously, that plan relies on having a central command to do the rallying, which is a problem since Hosnian Prime did it's impression of a thermal detonator and presumably took not just the Republic fleet but the Republic admiralty with it. 

What you're left with is (as I understand it) a bunch of local system fleets who aren't happy detaching major elements of their forces because (a) there's no-one obvious to give them to because the central command is gone (and the Resistance is seen by many as a bunch of terrorists led by Vader's daughter) and (b) a First Order destroyer squadron could come haring over the hyper limit the moment they're gone. There might be enough warships out there to stand off the First Order if they got concentrated, but where do you concentrate them and who's in command?

Now, don't get me wrong. If that is the case, not having a dispersed command structure too was stupid. But war-weary governments do do stupid things. World War 1 is a good case in point.

Whether I've understood it right or not, we'll need to wait and see. But it's worth noting that even if they are still about, The Really Bad Week basically wiped out the Republic's Quick-Reaction force, so even if other warships are there to be mobilized, expecting a large-scale fleet deployment in what feels like a couple of days, tops, since anyone knew Starkiller Base was even a thing is optimistic at best. That doesn't mean those fleets aren't there. 

Fair, fair. And this is a FAILING of the Sequel Trilogy. This is NOT explained AT ALL in the films. Which sucks! I've always hated that. Ever since TFA I've thought we needed to know more.

7 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Listen, you can't make an omelette without blasting eggs with a superlaser.  No one's saying the Empire was perfect; just that there are worse things than a complete lack of freedom and the constant fear of death..

Like a government that literally can't and won't protect you if somebody occupies your planet and tries to starve your people out.

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8 hours ago, Nspace said:

In this case, you are just plain wrong. The Empire began building the Death Star before the Rebellion was formed, before Lothal, and according to canon sources, even before the end of the Clone Wars. The Empire intended to use a weapon of mass destruction from the very beginning. By the end of the Clone Wars, there was no external force big enough or powerful enough to challenge the Galactic Empire and no reason to continue to pour credits and resources into a Superweapon... unless it was to be used on it's own citizens.

Look, the Empire only built the Death Star for one crucial reason. Alderaan had a Kilik infestation, the Republic was just working on making the biggest and most powerful can of Raid they could to deal with the problem. The Empire was just Space Orkin.

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Fair, fair. And this is a FAILING of the Sequel Trilogy. This is NOT explained AT ALL in the films. Which sucks! I've always hated that. Ever since TFA I've thought we needed to know more.

That's because they didn't plan the trilogy out to any extent and had different directors for each film so there wasn't any sort of cohesive plan or the like. It made it so that authors generally couldn't write in details early on about near TFA content and leading up to the film's events, outside of very small stuff like Before the Awaking and why we have yet to really get any true material past TLJ. Imagine if LFL and Disney were pushing Episode 9 like Lucas did with ROTS using an animated show like the original Clone Wars to keep the content relevant for younger audiences and hyping people up for the film rather than doing Resistance which takes place before TFA and only really tells us stuff we already know. 

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So the morality and/or competence of an action generally shouldn't be judged by its results, but on the basis of the best information available at the time.

1. Was the Rebellion justified pre-Yavin? Probably, as resistance to an imposed government with an evident and ongoing criminal record (I say probably because at times there's a conscience obligation to turn the other cheek to oppression).

2. Was the Rebellion justified at and after Yavin? Definitely, as the government had become nigh-genocidal.

3. Was the New Republic justified? Certainly, as a means of ending and replacing the Empire's injustices.

4. Was the New Republic competent in disbanding or dispersing (as Magnus Grendel points out) its fleet? If the former, no, if the latter, maybe.

5. Does potential New Republic incompetence have a moral effect on the past? No, that doesn't make sense.

I don't know, man. The modern day is very cynical. I think Star Wars is a bit of a refuge from that. For once, the good guys actually are just the good guys. I'd embrace that. There are other series out there for moral ambiguity.

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2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Fair, fair. And this is a FAILING of the Sequel Trilogy. This is NOT explained AT ALL in the films. Which sucks! I've always hated that. Ever since TFA I've thought we needed to know more.

At the risk of triggering people, I agree. Annoyingly, it was supposed to be explained in the Kor Sella storyline - which ended up on the cutting room floor.

FYI, Kor Sella is her:

346?cb=20170614052650

She's the one front-and-centre on the balcony on Hosnian Prime when it gets starkillered, and she's Leia's aide and messenger. Ironically, she was there to say "The First Order is a threat!" and was told "Don't be silly, of course they....hey....what's that bright red light?"

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52 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

At the risk of triggering people, I agree. Annoyingly, it was supposed to be explained in the Kor Sella storyline - which ended up on the cutting room floor.

FYI, Kor Sella is her:

346?cb=20170614052650

She's the one front-and-centre on the balcony on Hosnian Prime when it gets starkillered, and she's Leia's aide and messenger. Ironically, she was there to say "The First Order is a threat!" and was told "Don't be silly, of course they....hey....what's that bright red light?"

So also featured a fair bit in Bloodlines if I remember correctly. 

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1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

That's because they didn't plan the trilogy out to any extent and had different directors for each film so there wasn't any sort of cohesive plan or the like. It made it so that authors generally couldn't write in details early on about near TFA content and leading up to the film's events, outside of very small stuff like Before the Awaking and why we have yet to really get any true material past TLJ. Imagine if LFL and Disney were pushing Episode 9 like Lucas did with ROTS using an animated show like the original Clone Wars to keep the content relevant for younger audiences and hyping people up for the film rather than doing Resistance which takes place before TFA and only really tells us stuff we already know. 

Yeah, you're right, and I honestly have NO idea why they didn't do this. It's been a very strange thing to watch, honestly. I keep hoping they'll pull their heads out of their **** but they're having serious trouble doing so.

 

 

58 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

So the morality and/or competence of an action generally shouldn't be judged by its results, but on the basis of the best information available at the time.

1. Was the Rebellion justified pre-Yavin? Probably, as resistance to an imposed government with an evident and ongoing criminal record (I say probably because at times there's a conscience obligation to turn the other cheek to oppression).

2. Was the Rebellion justified at and after Yavin? Definitely, as the government had become nigh-genocidal.

3. Was the New Republic justified? Certainly, as a means of ending and replacing the Empire's injustices.

4. Was the New Republic competent in disbanding or dispersing (as Magnus Grendel points out) its fleet? If the former, no, if the latter, maybe.

5. Does potential New Republic incompetence have a moral effect on the past? No, that doesn't make sense.

I don't know, man. The modern day is very cynical. I think Star Wars is a bit of a refuge from that. For once, the good guys actually are just the good guys. I'd embrace that. There are other series out there for moral ambiguity.

1: Sort of. Very sort of. At this time The Empire wasn't the worst thing ever.
2: Agreed.
3: Double agreed.
4: Mixed.
5: Definitely not, but reflective of those who installed it.

Perhaps, yes, but I enjoy some nuance- and I WANT to believe the good guys are the good guys... But maybe The Empire really was better.

57 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

At the risk of triggering people, I agree. Annoyingly, it was supposed to be explained in the Kor Sella storyline - which ended up on the cutting room floor.

FYI, Kor Sella is her:

346?cb=20170614052650

She's the one front-and-centre on the balcony on Hosnian Prime when it gets starkillered, and she's Leia's aide and messenger. Ironically, she was there to say "The First Order is a threat!" and was told "Don't be silly, of course they....hey....what's that bright red light?"

Which of course, was cut to erroneously and stupidly match a particular film's runtime. We lost a LOT of VERY important and GOOD context. I STILL want my TFA extended cut. I still want several deleted or cut things added. LIKE THE SCENE WITH REY BEING BESTED BY PLUTT, DAMMIT.

 

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6 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Yeah, you're right, and I honestly have NO idea why they didn't do this. It's been a very strange thing to watch, honestly. I keep hoping they'll pull their heads out of their **** but they're having serious trouble doing so.

If you mean the general overall plan for a trilogy, I have no freaking idea. The ST reeks of being way too quickly rushed so Disney could make a quick buck on it. If you mean the animated show, its so they don't step on the director's toes for when they are making their films and the difference in lead times lining up like how Rebels had the one infiltration droid in season 3 that would have been the same model of droid as K2 had things lined up differently. 

Even when we get season 2 of Resistance, I suspect, it will end up being conservative on what happens since 9 wouldn't have been laid out fully yet when it was being produced so they have to make it somehow fit within the one year gap that is between TFA + TLJ and Episode 9. 

11 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Which of course, was cut to erroneously and stupidly match a particular film's runtime. We lost a LOT of VERY important and GOOD context. I STILL want my TFA extended cut. I still want several deleted or cut things added. LIKE THE SCENE WITH REY BEING BESTED BY PLUTT, DAMMIT.

I have to wonder if part of the reason they scrapped those scenes too were due to the whole negative reaction to the PT and 'Politics' talk that people often mock them for having during the Senate scenes. A whole 'The audience doesn't want to watch boring exposition/lore/political background stuff they just want to see the explosions and the action and the lightsabers!'.

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1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

If you mean the general overall plan for a trilogy, I have no freaking idea. The ST reeks of being way too quickly rushed so Disney could make a quick buck on it. If you mean the animated show, its so they don't step on the director's toes for when they are making their films and the difference in lead times lining up like how Rebels had the one infiltration droid in season 3 that would have been the same model of droid as K2 had things lined up differently. 

Even when we get season 2 of Resistance, I suspect, it will end up being conservative on what happens since 9 wouldn't have been laid out fully yet when it was being produced so they have to make it somehow fit within the one year gap that is between TFA + TLJ and Episode 9. 

I have to wonder if part of the reason they scrapped those scenes too were due to the whole negative reaction to the PT and 'Politics' talk that people often mock them for having during the Senate scenes. A whole 'The audience doesn't want to watch boring exposition/lore/political background stuff they just want to see the explosions and the action and the lightsabers!'.

The former- I get Resistance. Even though boy oh boy it sure would have been nice if it got to the interesting stuff sooner...

And I don't know. Maybe. I mean, the fans demanded something more like the OT.

Well, they got it.

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1 minute ago, Captain Lackwit said:

The former- I get Resistance. Even though boy oh boy it sure would have been nice if it got to the interesting stuff sooner...

And I don't know. Maybe. I mean, the fans demanded something more like the OT.

Well, they got it.

You know, it partially might have been due to time schedules, them wanting to push the films out sooner than later and with them having multiple directors you could get them to have the next film written and have preproduction starting or the like before the other was put in theaters. I know its been said that TLJ's script was done before Rian Johnson ever saw the final cut of TFA. 

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8 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

You know, it partially might have been due to time schedules, them wanting to push the films out sooner than later and with them having multiple directors you could get them to have the next film written and have preproduction starting or the like before the other was put in theaters. I know its been said that TLJ's script was done before Rian Johnson ever saw the final cut of TFA. 

First I'd heard that, but would not be entirely surprised.

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7 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

I have to wonder if part of the reason they scrapped those scenes too were due to the whole negative reaction to the PT and 'Politics' talk that people often mock them for having during the Senate scenes. A whole 'The audience doesn't want to watch boring exposition/lore/political background stuff they just want to see the explosions and the action and the lightsabers!'.

 

Probably, but the PT failed in part because you had boring political exposition, and then in the same movie: "Mesa stepped in poodu."

 

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9 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

I have to wonder if part of the reason they scrapped those scenes too were due to the whole negative reaction to the PT and 'Politics' talk that people often mock them for having during the Senate scenes. A whole 'The audience doesn't want to watch boring exposition/lore/political background stuff they just want to see the explosions and the action and the lightsabers!'.

I'm not sure the presence of exposition was the problem, so much as the fact that even the opening scroll sounded dull.

"...the mysterious Count Dooku has made it difficult for the limited number of Jedi Knights to maintain peace and order..."

"Senator Amidala, the former Queen of Naboo, is returning to the Galactic Senate to vote..."

You have three paragraphs sentences to set the tone of the movie, so how about upping the energy a little?

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