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dadocollin

Predictions for Toronto

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6 hours ago, dadocollin said:

Quick faction count on 6-0 and 5-1 lists from Day 1:

Rebel: 6

Resistance: 3

Empire: 2

First Order: 2

Scum: 0

(One unidentified)

Clearly the Rebels are back in action. One other interesting note: The top First Order list is Kylo/QD/Null.

Interesting. How many had Leia?

And reinforces clearly the proposition of many posters here "FFG loves Scum and gives them all advantages" ;) as well as "Galactic Empire never has anything good"

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1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

Interesting. How many had Leia?

And reinforces clearly the proposition of many posters here "FFG loves Scum and gives them all advantages" ;) as well as "Galactic Empire never has anything good"

5 out ot 6 using Leia. Only 1st place wasn't using her.

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1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

No Gunboats. All Imperials had phantoms. All this made me sad.

Luke ending the day in the top spot made me happy.

Its an interesting field though.

Amazing that for all the talk of how great Luke was/is since the start of 2.0, the first time he actually places well at a big tournament is after he, for all intents and purposes, loses supernatural reflexes, has gone up in points, and has to pay more for his pro torps. It just shows how broken some of those Imperial and Scum combinations were.

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12 minutes ago, Porkchop Express said:

Amazing that for all the talk of how great Luke was/is since the start of 2.0, the first time he actually places well at a big tournament is after he, for all intents and purposes, loses supernatural reflexes, has gone up in points, and has to pay more for his pro torps. It just shows how broken some of those Imperial and Scum combinations were.

SN Luke won the Poland SoS actually...

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1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

No Gunboats. All Imperials had phantoms. All this made me sad.

Luke ending the day in the top spot made me happy.

Its an interesting field though.

We'll just have to wait and see if this is "low hanging fruit", and the meta will evolve further and in response, or if this is what we've got barring wave 3 / next points.

Although with Hyperspace trials finally starting, I'm not sure how much the extended competitive meta matters going forwards, but some of it is directly applicable (there's a fair few hyperspace and virtually-hyperspace lists in the top cut).

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11 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

SN Luke won the Poland SoS actually...

Didn't this win Poland SoS:

Mariusz Krakowczyk (winner)

Boba Fett + Marauder title, Han Solo, 000, Debirs Gambit

Palob Godalhi + Moldy Crow, Debris Gambit

Lando Carlissian + Lando’s Falcon title, Trick Shot

200 pts

Edited by Porkchop Express

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1 hour ago, Porkchop Express said:

Didn't this win Poland SoS:

Mariusz Krakowczyk (winner)

Boba Fett + Marauder title, Han Solo, 000, Debirs Gambit

Palob Godalhi + Moldy Crow, Debris Gambit

Lando Carlissian + Lando’s Falcon title, Trick Shot

200 pts

Yes, the finals were 2x Scum, with the second finalist running Boba/Guri. Luke SN was in Top 4, though.

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132 lists, 14 player top cut - even distribution would be 26.4 lists per faction, and there was a 10.6% cut conversion rate.

Scum: 24 total lists, 0 in top cut. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PdXIHGvMpk )

  • 22 total Scurrgs, including 13 with Drea, plus two "Nym/Sol/Lok" lists and one "Nym/Sol/Kavil" list.
  • 8 copies of Fearless.
  • Three!! Boba Fett (pilot)s, two with Marauder/Han. Two Palobs, both with Moldy Crow. Six Fenn Raus. Zero Tugboats of any kind. One Guri.
  • Pre-points, these pilots were in 45/38/25/23/20% of Scum lists. For this event, they're at 13/8/25/0/4% - Fenn Rau is at the same rate, the rest of Scum's old top 5 are ghosts of their former meta-levels

Empire: 33 total lists, 3 in top cut (9.09% conversion rate)

  • 39!! total Phantoms, including 6 lists of 4 Sigmas, one with 2 Sigmas, and one with 3 Imdaars. 
  • Zero copies of Ruthless.
  • 9 Whispers, six with 5th Brother. Two!! Redlines, both with Proton Torpedoes. Five Soontir Fels, all in "3-ship aces" style lists. Four Rexler Braths, none with Advanced Sensors. Nine Darth Vader (pilot)s, none with Supernatural Reflexes.
  • Pre-points, these pilots were in 47/41/28/13/13% of Imperial lists. For this event, they're at 27/6/15/12/27% - Rexler is at about the same level, and Vader's stock has gone up dramatically, but Redline has nigh-vanished and Whisper/Soontir are still popular but far loss dominant.

Rebels: 41 total lists, 6 in top cut (14.63% conversion rate)

  • 21 total Leias, 38 total Y-Wings.
  • 3 copies of Selfless.
  • 21 total Wedges. Eleven Luke Skywalker (pilot)s, none with Supernatural Reflexes. Eight Thane Kyrells. Four AP-5s. Zero Sabine Wren (AS). 
  • Pre-points, these pilots were in 57/42/22/14/13% of Rebel lists. For this event, they're at 51/27/20/10/0% - Luke is popular, but has felt the tax on I5 Supernatural Reflexes, whereas Rebel's 5th most popular pilot, Sabine, has been wiped out of the meta completely. Thane and Wedge, who weren't directly touched, are at similar levels; and AP-5 seems to have shrugged off his minor hike.

First Order: 13 total lists, 2 in top cut (15.38% conversion rate)

  • 9 total Upsilons, including one Tavson, with 0 Snokes. Seven Silencers, including 3 Kylos (all with Hate). Six Quickdraws. Zero Midnights.
  • 18 copies of Fanatical.

Resistance: 20 total lists, 3 in top cut (15% conversion rate)

  • 10 Poe Damerons, 9 with Black One and 8 with R4 Astromech. Two Falcons, both flown by Rey. Two Starfortresses, one Vennie one Ben. Twenty-seven A-Wings.
  • 51!! copies of Heroic. Resistance players are putting this on nearly everything with a Talent slot.
Edited by svelok

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Interesting that the most successful Rebel showing flew two ships that didn't get points reductions (Luke + Wedge), and THREE copies of a highly increased card (torps), with only a barely reduced Dutch pilot to make up for it. 

I'm pretty sure the exact same Rebel squad was LESS points a couple months ago. 

Goes to show how oppressive the top lists were before, how good Torps still are, and how a couple of targeted nerfs to top pilots and upgrades can make unexpected room for stuff that was already great to shine harder. 

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21 minutes ago, dadocollin said:

For all the E-Wing fans out there, Corran Horn just flew into the Top 8 (with Wedge and Cassian).

Thanks, I was reading through @svelok‘s post and getting nervous for my E-Wings that I’m considering bringing to Adepticon 😅

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22 minutes ago, arctic_rogue said:

Anywhere to see the top 8 lists?

I think we’re just limited to the stream at this point. Currently there’s a Top 8 match of a shuttle and 4 generic X-wings against Poe, L’lulo, Tallie, and a generic A. @GreenDragoon, this is the list with the highest A-Wing count after the cut.

I have to head out, so I’ll check back in later.

Edited by dadocollin

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3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Interesting that the most successful Rebel showing flew two ships that didn't get points reductions (Luke + Wedge), and THREE copies of a highly increased card (torps), with only a barely reduced Dutch pilot to make up for it. 

I'm pretty sure the exact same Rebel squad was LESS points a couple months ago. 

Goes to show how oppressive the top lists were before, how good Torps still are, and how a couple of targeted nerfs to top pilots and upgrades can make unexpected room for stuff that was already great to shine harder. 

How good DOUBLE modded torps are you mean.

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2 of the top 4 are Rebel swarms:

Peter Rose: 

"Zeb" Orrelios + Leia Organa
Blue Squadron Escort + Servomotor S-foils
Blue Squadron Escort + Servomotor S-foils
Blue Squadron Pilot + Jamming Beam
Blue Squadron Pilot + Jamming Beam

Calen Wong:

Bandit Squadron Pilot
Bandit Squadron Pilot
Bandit Squadron Pilot
Partisan Renegade + Leia Organa + Tactical Officer + Pivot Wing
Blue Squadron Pilot + Jamming Beam + Tractor Beam
Blue Squadron Escort + Servomotor S-foils

The other 2 lists are Imp and Rebel:

Marcel Manzano:

Wedge Antilles + Proton Torpedoes + Servomotor S-foils
Corran Horn + Crack Shot + Fire-Control System + Proton Torpedoes + R2 Astromech
Cassian Andor + Tactical Officer + Leia Organa + Pivot Wing

Marc de Bruyn:

Darth Vader + Hate + Fire-Control System
Imdaar Test Pilot
Imdaar Test Pilot
Imdaar Test Pilot

Edited by Hiemfire

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de Bruyn just got eliminated by Wong. Not that it would have changed much if anything game wise, but the Marshal needs to re-read the wording on the Tallon Roll rules again. The maneuver is completed after the ship is placed in its final position and a Tallon Rolling ship is placed during the maneuver only in its final position and at no time before.

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16 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

de Bruyn just got eliminated by Wong. Not that it would have changed much if anything game wise, but the Marshal needs to re-read the wording on the Tallon Roll rules again. The maneuver is completed after the ship is placed in its final position and a Tallon Rolling ship is placed during the maneuver only in its final position and at no time before.

Imperial player lost marginally. And missed 2 turns of Vader fire due to ruling. That Bwing would have been PS killed that turn for certain.

So it definitely affected the game.

I can see why the judge ruled it that way, having reread the rules. But no one plays it that way.

Edited by Darth Seridur

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1 minute ago, Darth Seridur said:

Imperial player lost marginally. And missed 2 turns of Vader fire due to ruling. That Bwing would have been PS killed that turn for certain.

So it definitely affected the game.

I can see why the judge ruled it that way, having reread the rules. But no one plays it that way. 

That's the thing, how the Marshal ruled it is not how the maneuver works. Both Page 14 of the Core Rules and Page 6 of the Rules Reference do not state that the ship is placed at any time during the maneuver other than in its final position. You don't place the ship lined up with the middle of the template unless that is going to be the final position. Still their call, wrong or not.

Core Rules:

Tallon Roll (󲁢 and 󲁦)
The left Tallon Roll (󲁢) and right Tallon Roll (󲁦)
bearings advance a ship at a tight curve to one side,
rotating 90º at the end of the template.
This maneuver is executed like a 󲁜 or 󲁠 maneuver of
the same direction, but before the player places the
ship at the opposite end of the template, the ship is
rotated an additional 90º in the same direction as the
maneuver. The player places the ship so that the
hashmark on the side of the base is aligned to the
left, middle, or right of the end of the template.
If the ship cannot fully execute the maneuver, it does
not rotate 90º.

Bearings Section of the Rules Reference:

• Tallon Roll: The 󲁢 (left Tallon Roll) and 󲁦 (right Tallon Roll) bearings
advance a ship at a tight curve to one side, sharply changing its facing by
180º. This uses the same template as the 󲁜 and 󲁠 maneuvers.
◊ If the ship fully executes the maneuver, before the player places the
ship at the opposite end of the template, the ship is rotated 90º to the
left for a 󲁢, or 90º to the right for a 󲁦. Then the player places the ship
with the hashmark on the side of the base aligned to the left, middle, or
right of the end of the template, (similar to a barrel roll).

 

How in the heck is forcing placement outside of the final position even supported.

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1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:

Oh shoot, so he could have made the tallon roll, but only in the far-back positioning? And RAW you have to fit the ship in the template like a normal 2 turn or 3 turn, as it might be, before rotating 90*?

 

That last bit appears to be the disagreement as the rules are unclear

Edited by defkhan1

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1 minute ago, SpiderMana said:

Oh shoot, so he could have made the tallon roll, but only in the far-back positioning? And RAW you have to fit the ship in the template like a normal 2 turn or 3 turn, as it might be, before rotating 90*?

No. RAW the ship is only placed in its final position.

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1 minute ago, defkhan1 said:

 

That last bit appears to be the disagreement as the rules are unclear

 

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

Core Rules:

Tallon Roll (󲁢 and 󲁦)
The left Tallon Roll (󲁢) and right Tallon Roll (󲁦)
bearings advance a ship at a tight curve to one side,
rotating 90º at the end of the template.
This maneuver is executed like a 󲁜 or 󲁠 maneuver of
the same direction, but before the player places the
ship at the opposite end of the template, the ship is
rotated an additional 90º in the same direction as the
maneuver. The player places the ship so that the
hashmark on the side of the base is aligned to the
left, middle, or right of the end of the template.

If the ship cannot fully execute the maneuver, it does
not rotate 90º.

Bearings Section of the Rules Reference:

• Tallon Roll: The 󲁢 (left Tallon Roll) and 󲁦 (right Tallon Roll) bearings
advance a ship at a tight curve to one side, sharply changing its facing by
180º. This uses the same template as the 󲁜 and 󲁠 maneuvers.
If the ship fully executes the maneuver, before the player places the
ship at the opposite end of the template, the ship is rotated 90º to the
left for a 󲁢, or 90º to the right for a 󲁦. Then the player places the ship
with the hashmark on the side of the base aligned to the left, middle, or
right of the end of the template
, (similar to a barrel roll).

Underlined section they ignored.

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