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Zeoinx

Rebel Alliance Venator Debate

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So EckhartsLadder did a video on "Why Didn't Rebel's use the Venator" and while some of his points might be taken, I feel most of this could be highly subjective and based on Starwar's writers perspective, mainly the fact that the Venator wasnt introduced into lore till AFTER the first 3 films, and the initial reaction to the prequel movies from some people.

I posted the video to bring everyone up to speed on his thoughts, but I feel that there is really no lore that the Alliance has that honestly would prevent the Rebel's from using the Venator, just not in the role that Eckhart is attempting to use it as, a front line carrier, battle ship. He made a lot of points about the Alliance using a ton of hit and run missions, and that deploying from a carrier, such as the Lucrehulk against the death star, would indeed be a horrible idea, but if the Alliance DID have them, I feel they would have kept these particular ships more in reserve, and because of the ships capabilities, and size, being underwhelming now against most modern Capitol ships of similar class, would be used as replacements for planetary hidden bases and space stations, perhaps even going so far as to replace outposts such as Yavin IV, Hoth. True, the size isnt anywhere near the Lucrehulk, but the hanger bays all around the vessel would be quite able to handed a large chunk, if not all of the Rebel attack force that took up Yavin base, including all equipment, personal and even has room for some of the support craft, such as the CR-90s, GR-75s, and other various freighters like the YT-1300 size ships.

Now I can hear some of you going, why maintain a ship of that size, especially during the early days of the alliance, or even "are you sure this would fall under rebel doctrine" and the answer is quite simply, YES. They alliance has been shown to use massive Lucrehulk carriers at one point, as well as even harder to maintain CIS ships like the Providence class battleships, and as far as the doctrine, one of the known weakness of hit and run missions was the fact that it was harder to find plantary bodies to actually hide out in all the time, and the Alliance started modifying the Mon Calamari starships to actually fix this weakness, as seen with the MC-80 "Home One" being one of the main Carriers of the alliance fighter corps and home of Rogue Squadron for a good chunk of missions.

This of course wouldn't fully replace planetary bases, but would have even went so far as to enhance them, as you CAN land Venators on the surface of planets. Just imagine if the alliance DID have one buried on the planet of Hoth as the main outpost under some snow with plantary shield generators around it. I feel the battle of Hoth might have gone quite differently as the Venator near the end could have launched near the tail end of the conflict, helped take out some of the AT ATs after the shield generator went down and used the planetary ion cannon to escape, even shocking the Imperial Fleet (all be it briefly) long enough to get a nice chunk of the personal and supplies off world. If anything, it would have helped other transports make a better run for it as the Ventor, after the initial ion cannon bombardment and shock wore off, given the Imperial Fleet a more sizable target to attempt to go after, and with Vader on the surface, it would have been left to the admirals in space to deal with, who most likely wouldn't have been able to properly.

Anyway, I'd like to see other's thoughts on this topic, even as a what if situation is quite interesting to discuss.

Edited by Zeoinx

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It’s probably easier to get separatist ships on the black market than Venators that were under republic and then Imperial control.

Smaller ships like nebulons and the like could be stolen by a relatively small crew, whereas I’d imagine you would require a much larger force to capture and run a ship of that size, let alone the fact that it would most likely be heavily guarded/garrisoned 

Edited by MandalorianMoose

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45 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

It’s probably easier to get separatist ships on the black market than Venators that were under republic and then Imperial control.

Smaller ships like nebulons and the like could be stolen by a relatively small crew, whereas I’d imagine you would require a much larger force to capture and run a ship of that size, let alone the fact that it would most likely be heavily guarded/garrisoned 

While I partially agree with this being a possible reason, the fact remains the Venators were really not THAT large, and the Rebels have stolen ships that size from Drydocks and "ship graveyards" before. Also, some Venators were commanded if I wasnt mistaken by planetary governments and possible rebel Sympathizers.
 

Even in the cartoon Rebels, there was a Venator that was literately under the command of one person in one of the later seasons. Noone else was on board, so its safe to assume while it prob wouldnt be fully combat able, it IS able to move.

Edited by Zeoinx

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If the Alliance had them, would they use them?  Sure.  It’s a multirole, formidable warship.  I can’t think of any combat-capable ship they’ve declined to field given the chance.  The question is: could they get them?  Unlike Separatist craft, the Empire continued to use Republic warships in their navy, potentially leading to a more careful, organized process by the time they were decommissioned.  In fact, the only Republic vessel we see in Rebel hands is the Pelta, which was designed as a medical/cargo vessel.  I think that’s interesting.

@Zeoinx what’s the source for the planetary governments and the Rebels appearance?  If you’re thinking of the Audacity, that was in the comics and is no longer canon.  But it might well not be capable of movement, functioning more as a dwelling than a transport given the context (heck, how would it stay fueled?)  And it’s missing the starboard command bridge, which is the command center of the ship (the port bridge is for starfighter coordination.)  Not to say you’re wrong necessarily, just that it’s a significant assumption.

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13 hours ago, MandalorianMoose said:

It’s probably easier to get separatist ships on the black market than Venators that were under republic and then Imperial control.

Smaller ships like nebulons and the like could be stolen by a relatively small crew, whereas I’d imagine you would require a much larger force to capture and run a ship of that size, let alone the fact that it would most likely be heavily guarded/garrisoned 

I feel the alliance would have an easier time with Sep ships. after the shutdown order, i'm assuming there was an entire fleet just floating in space, like ripe fruit. And since they were built for a small crew and mostly automated and run off droid operators.. luckily these come with their own droid crew ready for reprogramming!

Republic/ early empire were crew heavy ships.. in maintenance if not actual operation.. short of a system defense force defecting, not sure how else rebel operatives would've gotten a hold of them.

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On 2/19/2019 at 3:50 PM, RuusMarev said:

I feel the alliance would have an easier time with Sep ships. after the shutdown order, i'm assuming there was an entire fleet just floating in space, like ripe fruit. And since they were built for a small crew and mostly automated and run off droid operators.. luckily these come with their own droid crew ready for reprogramming!

Sounds like these could be the new canon's version of the Katana Fleet.

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When you go through Tarkin and Rebels and such, you find out that the Empire did it’s best to decommission, dismantle and essentially eradicate the fleets to replace with their own.

 

Sep ships were quite modular, so some of the modules managed to find their way to the black market, but that’s basically because there were sent that way by a High ranking imperial traitor - the accounting of the Empire was otherwise very well engineered, as you would expect from a bureaucracy that rewards failure with death.  

A lot of stuff was slagged, or kept on places like the Qyanchi - the Junk Moon Of Ord Mantell - under heavy guard.

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This topic does seem interesting.

As someone pointed out earlier yes a Venator was spotted in the rebels TV show but not what you would have expected. It was one of Tarkin's many keep sakes in his office. As rebels pointed out, Tarkin had a fondness for the clone wars, reason he kept commander Gree's helmet and a model Venator in his office. My guess is that he has a Venator model because of his days in that old outpost with the star destroyer Electrum defending

I guess I went a little off topic for a moment, or at least I think I did. In my opinion it wouldn't be that hard for the rebels to acquire a Venator if they managed to get their hands on one early into the war. Most Venators used by the empire were used as fighter training schools with no escorting ships, so it would be easy picking. And crewing with Sullustans or Mon Calamari wouldn't be too hard would it?

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Another thought is this:

Why would the rebels want a ship that was so obviously part of the imperial design ethos? I don't think they would, symbolically it would seem to say that they were willing to be more like the empire to beat them (or sum such thing). Basically it would be a moral no no.

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34 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Another thought is this:

Why would the rebels want a ship that was so obviously part of the imperial design ethos? I don't think they would, symbolically it would seem to say that they were willing to be more like the empire to beat them (or sum such thing). Basically it would be a moral no no.

Because Redemption is an important theme to them as well.

 

Otherwise, would people like Kallus be not only able to serve, but live;)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Because Redemption is an important theme to them as well.

 

Otherwise, would people like Kallus be not only able to serve, but live;)

Oooh hadn't thought about it from that point of view. I like it, a kind of takes all kinds attitude!

Edited by Noosh

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On 3/25/2019 at 12:00 PM, Drasnighta said:

Because Redemption is an important theme to them as well.

 

Otherwise, would people like Kallus be not only able to serve, but live;)

 

On 3/25/2019 at 1:19 PM, Noosh said:

Oooh hadn't thought about it from that point of view. I like it, a kind of takes all kinds attitude!

Image result for what i told you was true from a certain point of view

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