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Survey results are in; see the class rankings

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3 hours ago, Soakman said:

If the idea is that you want survivor to be able to compete in these areas better, sure, you could make cards that give you 2 clues and stick a red border on the card or give them a few more high damage weapons... but I guess making all the classes good at everything seems like a mistake to me unless there are gameplay mechanics that support the class's identity as well. I don't know how you would work in recursion, discard, or fail-to-win mechanics that give you consistent damage/clues. But without those elements, the faction is just going to feel like guardian or feel like seeker.

Indeed. All the classes must, ultimately, do the same things, but they must do them in unique ways or why even bother having more classes than just Guardian and Seeker. (Which was pretty much what was in the D20 Call of Cthulu book.)

As for how to do that:

A permanent, exceptional like Stick to the Plan that lets them draw from their discard pile instead of their deck.

An upgraded Resourceful to get 2 or 3 cards like True Survivor, and maybe non-Survivor cards.

An upgraded Scavenging for non-Investigate actions (Loot for successful Fight actions, This Will Come In Handy for successful Evade actions, I Forgot About That for successful Will tests), or for any success instead of succeed by 2.

Upgraded versions of Improvised Weapon and Winging It for a bit more damage and clue pick up.

Upgraded versions of "Look What I Found!", Dumb Luck, Lucky, Oops! and other fail-to-win cards that work with higher margin failures. (A 4 xp Lucky that works if you fail by 4 or less for example.)

Really out there, something like Mark Harrigan trading damage for skill boosts, so Survivors can "pay" with that as well as resources and cards.

And, almost totally crazy, a 0 cost weapon to go with the Cherished Keepsake and Leather Coat. A 0 cost Newspaper that works while you have clues would fit in that theme as well.


As for making those consistent, either have asset versions that do those things, perhaps with something like the new Dayana Esperance ally (from the preview for In the Clutches of Chaos) that attaches an event for 3 uses.

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I hadn't even thought about a Dayana Esperance angle, but that would be pretty cool. If Minnie Klein doesn't make an appearance as an actual investigator, I would love to see her as a survivor ally that can load an event for multiple uses. ❤️

The newly previewed Trial By Fire card is also an excellent event to combo with On Your Own. Boost a stat to 5 for an entire turn for 1 resource and no xp? Don't mind if I do!

Edited by Soakman

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1 hour ago, Allonym said:

This means that Survivors have a very flat power curve, where they have powerful in-built abilities and generically useful tools to help them succeed, but by the end of the campaign often still rely on those tools whereas other classes have hugely upgraded their core approach.

So the major complaint here is that Survivors start too strong?

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9 hours ago, Buhallin said:

So the major complaint here is that Survivors start too strong?

My interpretation of the complaint is that:

  1. The Survivor level 3 cards are not powerful/exciting enough, leading to a feeling of being underpowered towards the end of a campaign and that the lack of options when you have more xp is a let down.
  2. The Survivor level 0-2 cards are very good, meaning that investigators who have access to Survivor cards as a secondary class (either "up to x level 0" cards or "level 0-2" cards) gain most of the benefit of a main class Survivor while also getting access to a wider selection of cards from their own main class.

I think these are valid points to at least raise for discussion, even if I don't completely agree with them. My counter arguments are:

  1. I think it is unfair to judge the Survivor card pool in isolation, without considering the Survivor investigators' abilities. All the Survivors, maybe excepting Calvin, have very strong abilities printed on their investigator cards.
  2. A class that becomes strong quickly but doesn't reach as high a peak as the classes which build up more slowly feels like a completely valid design choice to me, even if fewer people (gross simplification by me here: 15% going off first place rankings in the data, which is still a lot more than 0%) enjoy this play experience. Especially in multiplayer games having a character who helps the team shine at the start and middle of a campaign but is eclipsed in power at the end on seems fine. It is a co-operative game after all, and you win or lose together. Even in true solo, as was already raised, having a character who can come in half way through a campaign if necessary and already be quite strong is sometimes very useful.
  3. With a lower need for experience than other classes, Survivors are better set up to take advantage of higher level Neutral cards. Sure, other classes can also take them but it is potentially more of a hit to their build. Charisma to run a combination of Peter Sylvestre/Aquinnah/The Red Gloved Man, all of whom can be recurred through A Chance Encounter or searched for with Flare or Calling In Favors. Key of Ys, which can be swept up out of your discard pile with Scavenging. Even Ornate Bow: all Survivors have at least fair agility and have a suite of cards that make them less likely to fail with that all important one arrow. Yes, most of these options are open to non-Survivor investigators, but then you are spending a good chunk of experience on Survivor cards, probably got an investigator whose ability isn't as good and definitely don't have Will to Survive!

I think the Exile mechanic is probably a separate issue. Not liking them is fine, maybe they simply aren't for you, but believing Exile makes the Survivor card pool weaker or less interesting isn't something I agree with.

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