Pathfinders spoiled early, it seems

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

Just now, DarkTrooperZero said:

For the marginal increase in hits to swap to 1 red versus 2 white I doubt the recover action is worth it?

White dice? In this economy?

 

[DarkTrooperZero 304]

2 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

White dice? In this economy?

 

4 red with surge gives 3.5 while 8 white with surge gives 3 hits, considering the turn you reconfigure you can't aim I would rather take the aim and shoot white?

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

Just now, DarkTrooperZero said:

4 red with surge gives 3.5 while 8 white with surge gives 3 hits, considering the turn you reconfigure you can't aim I would rather take the aim and shoot white?

LOL I was just messing around. The range for the A-300 in any state but the short-range will always be a plus.

But it's a luxury to be able to switch to short-range and wollop someone with 5 red dice and surge to hit.

I honestly don't think they have a bad choice among their weapon configurations/upgrades/etc.

[MasterShake2 5,184]

Rebellions are built on hope...and piles of white dice

[Derrault 1,091]

5 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

I have mixed feelings about Bistan. I hate exhaust cards but at range 3 the pathfinders will put out the same amount of dice as fleet troopers with the mpl with the same surge. It'll lack blast, but that's a lot of damage. With infiltrate and overwatch I could see using them effectively as a turret until the rest of the force catches up with them.

Bistan adds 5 dice, he’s practically an entire squad for only 32 points. With infiltrate, you can pretty much ensure they have a valid target on turn 1 and never have to move. There’s virtually zero downside to taking him.

[buckero0 1,956]

so, the difference is whether a different "mini" is on the card.  These config act like adding a grenade option to your unit.

[FSD 865]

2 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Bistan adds 5 dice, he’s practically an entire squad for only 32 points. With infiltrate, you can pretty much ensure they have a valid target on turn 1 and never have to move. There’s virtually zero downside to taking him.

He is a good "One Shot" trooper but the Pathfinders seem like they want to stay suppressed which means you are not recovering and then shooting every turn with him.

However, if I'm reading it right, he gets a little better when run alongside Jyn as her 3 pip can give them an activation to ignore being suppressed so he could technically get off two shots a game without ever having to worry about suppression limiting your non-move actions.

[Weikel 68]

32 minutes ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

4 red with surge gives 3.5 while 8 white with surge gives 3 hits, considering the turn you reconfigure you can't aim I would rather take the aim and shoot white?

Sure, it might be more efficient to aim rather than reconfigure to short range. But then that recover action also allows Bistan to reload and for the squad to drop some suppression. Recover might not be worth one of those benefits but it's worth all 3 at the right time.

[Derrault 1,091]

5 minutes ago, FSD said:

He is a good "One Shot" trooper but the Pathfinders seem like they want to stay suppressed which means you are not recovering and then shooting every turn with him.

However, if I'm reading it right, he gets a little better when run alongside Jyn as her 3 pip can give them an activation to ignore being suppressed so he could technically get off two shots a game without ever having to worry about suppression limiting your non-move actions.

Danger Sense 3, you may choose not to remove suppression tokens. 

(Emphasis added). They don’t have to remove suppression from recover.

edit: So they can recover every turn and fire, as long as they don’t acquire too much suppression. And if they are running next to Bistan’s squad, the enemy would have to layer on 4+ suppression to even have a chance at costing them an action (1 goes away at the end of the round, inspire removes 1). Even better, if they have that upcoming upgrade to remove a suppression, there’s nearly no end to the shenanigans they can get up to

Edited February 18, 2019 by Derrault

[MasterShake2 5,184]

21 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Danger Sense 3, you may choose not to remove suppression tokens. 

(Emphasis added). They don’t have to remove suppression from recover.

edit: So they can recover every turn and fire, as long as they don’t acquire too much suppression. And if they are running next to Bistan’s squad, the enemy would have to layer on 4+ suppression to even have a chance at costing them an action (1 goes away at the end of the round, inspire removes 1). Even better, if they have that upcoming upgrade to remove a suppression, there’s nearly no end to the shenanigans they can get up to

 

It looks like this unit basically lives suppressed, but because of Dauntless can still move and shoot every turn.  Problem is that doesn't leave any room for recover actions.  You basically have to be clearing almost all of your stress every turn to have an action left to recover and, frankly, I'm not sure the unit even wants to drop down that low on suppression.

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

24 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

It looks like this unit basically lives suppressed, but because of Dauntless can still move and shoot every turn.  Problem is that doesn't leave any room for recover actions.  You basically have to be clearing almost all of your stress every turn to have an action left to recover and, frankly, I'm not sure the unit even wants to drop down that low on suppression.

Why not?

 

Pathfinder Activation:

Rally step - if you are already suppressed but not panicked, you choose to remove 0 tokens.

— Dauntless triggers. Gain a Suppression token to perform a free Speed 2 move.

Action: Recover (choose to remove 0 Suppression, or X if you want, the rule says "any number of"); reconfigure your weapon if you want; reload Bistan if he's tapped.

Action: Blast some fools.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by manoftomorrow010

[UnitOmega 2,818]

Nyet. If you are suppressed at the Rally step, you lose one action - even if you pull that suppression off later (unless Recover says something special about that). The beauty is you do not become suppressed or panicked after the Rally step, so if you Dauntless and would panic, you won't until the next activation, when hopefully you've managed to siphon off some Suppression. 

I think in this case, Pathfinders combo best with Jyn, she gives them like two more suppression tokens they can take before panic, and her two pip to give herself inspire and the unit teamwork can turn into a real power turn - and if Pathfinders have Pao they can Inspire Jyn back to help her keep her own suppression under control. 

[MasterShake2 5,184]

3 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

Why not?

 

Pathfinder Activation:

Rally step - if you are already suppressed but not panicked, you choose to remove 0 tokens.

— Dauntless triggers. Gain a Suppression token to perform a free Speed 2 move.

Action: Recover (choose to remove 0 Suppression, or X if you want, the rule says "any number of"); reconfigure your weapon if you want; reload Bistan if he's tapped.

Action: Blast some fools.

 

 

 

That's 2 normal actions while suppressed.  That's not suppression works.

[NeonWolf 942]

28 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

It looks like this unit basically lives suppressed, but because of Dauntless can still move and shoot every turn.  Problem is that doesn't leave any room for recover actions.  You basically have to be clearing almost all of your stress every turn to have an action left to recover and, frankly, I'm not sure the unit even wants to drop down that low on suppression.

There are other options to clear them of suppression.  They are situational but they do exist.

        

Plus the Endurance upgrade that is coming down the pipe, and other sources of Inspire.

Edited February 18, 2019 by NeonWolf

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

That's 2 normal actions while suppressed.  That's not suppression works.

even if you recover?

[MasterShake2 5,184]

Just now, manoftomorrow010 said:

even if you recover?

 

Yes, even if you recover.  Otherwise, there's literally no reason for a suppressed unit to do anything but recover which kind of makes suppression pretty crap.

[UnitOmega 2,818]

1 minute ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

even if you recover?

See my earlier post. You check for Suppression and Panic at the Rally step, things which happen after this check do not affect if you are Suppressed or Panicked this activation. 

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

 

Yes, even if you recover.  Otherwise, there's literally no reason for a suppressed unit to do anything but recover which kind of makes suppression pretty crap.

ah right, i just noticed that in the RRG.

 

[MasterShake2 5,184]

5 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

There are other options to clear them of suppression.  They are situational but they do exist.

        

Plus the Endurance upgrade that is coming down the pipe, and other sources of Inspire.

 

The problem is that if the unit is threatened it might not be the right call to go low suppression even if you have the ability to do so.  Recover actions kind of suck.  Even if I had the action available, I think most other options are better.  Pao for life!  Keep shooting!

Edited February 18, 2019 by MasterShake2

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

The problem is that if the unit is threatened it might not be the right call to go low suppression even if you have the ability to do so.  Recover actions kind of suck.  Even if I had the action available, I think most other options are better.  Pao for life!  Keep shooting!

At least you wouldn't be trying to swap back and forth between the configurations on your rifle. I think you'd probably stick to one (long range) until you get into a close fight and you maybe want those red dice. So, maybe you perform 1 or 2 Recover actions a game. Still very situational, and they're at least trying to make Recover a thing lol but like, fetch, maybe they should stop trying

[Docgimmethenews 176]

1 hour ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

At least you wouldn't be trying to swap back and forth between the configurations on your rifle. I think you'd probably stick to one (long range) until you get into a close fight and you maybe want those red dice. So, maybe you perform 1 or 2 Recover actions a game. Still very situational, and they're at least trying to make Recover a thing lol but like, fetch, maybe they should stop trying

Yeah, but if you utilize PFs as an entrenched unit and dont move them around much, then the movement action doesn't matter. Recover and fire all day!!!

I really think PFs are to be used as such. Stick them on the objective, hold the objective, die on the objective. No moving unless to get LoS, but even then...dont move them. Let the enemy come to you. This is an ambush unit, IMO.

So of course someone smarter than me can come along and use them better...something I dont see yet.

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

Assuming no losses, 1 Red and 5 white dice at range 4 every turn for 96 points is really nothing to sneeze at in a Pao led unit. And if a target is in range 3, that changes to 1 red and 9 white dice,  without needing a recover action since you just change the weapon each model is using.  The long range mode seems very good for early game, enabling you to put pins on 2 different units at range 4 with decent regularity, while short range mode seems better for late game, when you want to push through those last couple of wounds on units holding objectives.

There is also the slim possibility of being able to pin 3 units in a given turn (target 1 unit with the armament, 1 unit with the heavy weapon, and 1 unit with the standard blaster). 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Caimheul1313

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

Just now, Docgimmethenews said:

Yeah, but if you utilize PFs as an entrenched unit and dont move them around much, then the movement action doesn't matter. Recover and fire all day!!!

I really think PFs are to be used as such. Stick them on the objective, hold the objective, die on the objective. No moving unless to get LoS, but even then...dont move them. Let the enemy come to you. This is an ambush unit, IMO.

So of course someone smarter than me can come along and use them better...something I dont see yet.

This has kinda been my plan. My only movement would be to fall back 

[thepopemobile100 977]

The more I think about Bistan, the more I like him once we got the long range config of the A-300. Range 4 with 8 white and a black is better than most units at range 3. Moving around isn't going to be too much of an issue when the whole team can shoot from that far away. I'm more hesitant now however to throw overwatch on these guys as, like all rebel SF, really should have duck and cover. Looks like a fun unit to use and paint with some nice gimmicks to them, definitely picking up two of them.

[Docgimmethenews 176]

Ultimately, ya'll, I really see this as an Ambush Unit.

Live and die on the objective.

And remember, recover doesn't have remove any suppression. So you can keep 3 on them the whole time and still refresh, reconfigure, without removing suppression.

It is extreamly lovely to have this unit.

Turn 0: drop PFs on or near objective of choice. With long range config.

Turn 1: fire and suppress, exhast Bistan. Enemy comes into range 3.

Turn 2: recover/reconfig to SRC. Exhaust Bistan.

Turn 3-6: rinse and repeat until death or victory

I see no movements with this unit.