ATST and Airspeeder still extremely overcosted

[Hoffburger 209]

 

9 hours ago, Warlordus said:

And experienced at st players will put it right in your face so you HAVE to deal with it or you cant reach objectives or risk getting squads exposed. 

 

8 hours ago, Winged Gundark said:

I like using the grenade launcher and deleting or at least seriously crippling a unit in one round.

 

From a high level play perspective...

Unfortunately, even with the new surge to hit pilot, an AT-ST costs 220 points at maximum effectiveness (just the pilot and grenade launcher). You likely aren't going to be shooting the grenade launcher turn 1 and unfortunately the current competitive scene for both x-wing and legion means that the game will go to time. Until legion grows a pair and enforces deathclocks on their players (each table has a chess timer and, just like in chess, if you run out of time you lose), you will always have a game that doesn't work the way the developers intended. What this means for legion is that you really only get 3-4 actual turns of gameplay. Turn 1 tends to be a non-turn for shooting most of the time or at least very little damage is caused and the game ends on turn 4 or turn 5 most of the time in tournaments. So you really only have 3-4 actual activations for each of your units. To get your points back (let's just assume that having 1 activation vs. 3-4 activations for the same points doesn't matter for a second) you need to kill 3+ full squads of units. That just isn't going to happen because it's still a dice game and the AT-ST (and T-47) don't throw enough dice for their point cost. To top it off, there are objectives that the AT-ST cannot score.

tl;dr - AT-ST is trash because the game ends on turn 4-5 in tournaments due to slow play and insufficient time for rounds. If the game was 8+ rounds, the AT-ST would be much much much better than it currently is because the best thing about the AT-ST is that it doesn't die.

[Rumar 244]

16 hours ago, Warlordus said:

And experienced at st players will put it right in your face so you HAVE to deal with it or you cant reach objectives or risk getting squads exposed. 

I will still ignore the AT-ST and go after the infantry. I'd rater take the fire from an AT-ST than the fire from an AT-ST's worth of infantry and I'd rather shoot at infantry, because it will have a larger impact both on the enemies firepower and his ability to score objectives. And what does "in your face" even mean? There are no range modifiers in Legion. Why does an AT-ST prevent me from reaching objectives? The pinning mechanism is as weak as the "standby" mechanism, and the poor thing does not even have "standby".

Edited March 12, 2019 by Rumar

[Winged Gundark 21]

15 hours ago, buckero0 said:

mortar launcher? How do you get into range turn 1?

 

The AT-ST is so close though.  Having this and the T-47 be 20pts cheaper wasn't going to kill anyone.

Sorry to clarify I'm talking about the DW-3 Concussion Grenade Launcher Range 1-2 2 black dice blast.  I can usually get into range turn two first turn I'll move forward and usually do some damage with the main gun.  The main gun averages 3 hits  so you on average will at least have them rolling some saves even in heavy cover.  2nd turn you might be able to aim and fire the mortar but more then likely you will be moving and shooting one more time.

[Winged Gundark 21]

7 hours ago, Hoffburger said:

What this means for legion is that you really only get 3-4 actual turns of gameplay.

I know more none Fantasy Flight games have incorporated clocks due to slow play.  This would seem like a balancing factor also for people walking in with the maximum amount of activations.  Doesn't matter if you have 12 activations if you used all of your time by the end of turn 3.

 

In the past I've always seen Fantasy Flight as having no clue how long it takes to play the game.  I used to play allot of competitive X-Wing so I know the pain of going to time due to slow play.  It shouldn't take two ships more time to plan move and shoot compared to 4 ships.

[Senjius 117]

In X-Wing time limit was not an issue for me, I finish about 95% of my games, a lot of them in less than an hour. In Legion I find it more difficult with about 70% of the games finished in 2 hours 15 minutes.

[Winged Gundark 21]

24 minutes ago, Senjius said:

In X-Wing time limit was not an issue for me, I finish about 95% of my games, a lot of them in less than an hour. In Legion I find it more difficult with about 70% of the games finished in 2 hours 15 minutes.

If my memory is  correct they had a variable game length from  60 minutes to 90 minutes.  I only really had issues when it was set to 60.  Even 75 minutes rarely was an issue.

[Senjius 117]

2 hours ago, Winged Gundark said:

If my memory is  correct they had a variable game length from  60 minutes to 90 minutes.  I only really had issues when it was set to 60.  Even 75 minutes rarely was an issue.

X-Wing official time limit is 75 minutes.

[arnoldrew 1,713]

3 hours ago, Rumar said:

I will still ignore the AT-ST and go after the infantry. I'd rater take the fire from an AT-ST than the fire from an AT-ST's worth of infantry and I'd rather shoot at infantry, because it will have a larger impact both on the enemies firepower and his ability to score objectives. And what does "in your face" even mean? There are no range modifiers in Legion. Why does an AT-ST prevent me from reaching objectives? The pinning mechanism is as weak as the "standby" mechanism, and the poor thing does not even have "standby".

Ground vehicles have the ability to do a Standby action as of a couple RRG revisions ago.

[costi 1,297]

10 hours ago, Rumar said:

I will still ignore the AT-ST and go after the infantry. I'd rater take the fire from an AT-ST than the fire from an AT-ST's worth of infantry and I'd rather shoot at infantry, because it will have a larger impact both on the enemies firepower and his ability to score objectives. And what does "in your face" even mean? There are no range modifiers in Legion. Why does an AT-ST prevent me from reaching objectives? The pinning mechanism is as weak as the "standby" mechanism, and the poor thing does not even have "standby".

You can't walk through it, so it will prevent you from reaching the objective if positioned correctly.

[Susanooo 113]

Well, ive ended up third in local tournament with an at st list. Basicly managed to position it to either fire at exposed units or provide my own guys with cover. It decimated 3 stormtrooper squads opening an objective for my troops and blocking enemy movements and even scoring an objective. With 9 activations it made a lot of sense in my list and i loved fielding it