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eliteone

Sector Fleet - clear advantage for defensive admirals

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Is it just me or do the defensive admirals have a clear advantage over the offensive ones? Since the defensive ones benefit you, all game, and the offensive ones only benefit against one opposing player, when that opposing player is done for your admiral's ability won't be effective. 

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15 minutes ago, eliteone said:

Is it just me or do the defensive admirals have a clear advantage over the offensive ones? Since the defensive ones benefit you, all game, and the offensive ones only benefit against one opposing player, when that opposing player is done for your admiral's ability won't be effective. 

Eh, I don't think that's a clear distinction, for one...  

 

I mean, Screed's an Offensive Admiral that always works.

Konstantine's a (mostly) Defensive Admiral that only works on one target...

 

Certainly, the Admirals that *specifically target an enemy* are more powerful given the greater bonuses, if they can apply to ALL of your Enemies if you don't apply the Rule as Required...  

 

But even the most altruistic Admiral only applies to YOUR ships, generally...   I mean, its not like your Thrawn is benefiting your Teammates ...  Your Buddies can't use your Mothma Evades...

Edited by Drasnighta

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6 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Eh, I don't think that's a clear distinction, for one...  

 

I mean, Screed's an Offensive Admiral that always works.

Konstantine's a (mostly) Defensive Admiral that only works on one target...

 

Certainly, the Admirals that *specifically target an enemy* are more powerful given the greater bonuses, if they can apply to ALL of your Enemies if you don't apply the Rule as Required...  

 

But even the most altruistic Admiral only applies to YOUR ships, generally...   I mean, its not like your Thrawn is benefiting your Teammates ...  Your Buddies can't use your Mothma Evades...

I interpreted it as Screed's" spend one die" effect only working when shooting one other admirals ships. Since it's a "While Attacking" (that selected Admiral*)

*Sector Fleet rules

Edited by eliteone

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5 minutes ago, eliteone said:

I interrupt it as Screed's" spend one die" effect only working when shooting one other admirals ships. Since it's a "While Attacking" (that selected Admiral*)

*Sector Fleet rules

You sure?

 

Assign Targets:

After Setup, each player whose commander does not have a “friendly” effect must choose one opponent. The “enemy” effect of that commander only resolves against ships or squadrons controlled by the chosen opponent.

 

 

Screed is a "Friendly Ship" effect.

If the Upgrade references what Friendly Ships can do, then they apply to your Ships all the time.

But if it specifically states what the ENEMY does, then its Restricted.

 

Essentially the two who are hit by the Assign Target nerf-bat are Dodonna (which is an infamous "enemy" effect), and Emperor Palpatine (a new, unreleased, and thus, not yet infamous "enemy" effect).

 

 

 

Edited by Drasnighta

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1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Try again

 

Assign Targets:

After Setup, each player whose commander does not have a “friendly” effect must choose one opponent. The “enemy” effect of that commander only resolves against ships or squadrons controlled by the chosen opponent.

 

 

Screed is a "Friendly Ship" effect.

 

 

Oh wow, so technically  Ackbar, Vader, Sato etc. will work against all opponents. Cool. 

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2 minutes ago, eliteone said:

Oh wow, so technically  Ackbar, Vader, Sato etc. will work against all opponents. Cool. 

Absolutely!

 

Because only YOUR ships are gaining the benefit, its not Unbalancing.

 

But it IS unabalancing ifyou just have Dodonna on the board, and suddenly EVERY ENEMY SHIP is taking the Four-Damage Card Crit Lookup, even when hitting Asteroids, or having say, Ackbar shoot at them.

But it doesn't mean that a ship belonging to the Sato fleet can use Ackbar's Extra Dice..  and Ackbar's Flagship can't gain the benefit of changing two of its dice to Black just because Sato is "over there"...

 

I am also a little defensive.  I was there for the Birth of this Rule, after all :)

Edited by Drasnighta

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I think you'll see some of the bigger names use bigger ships to help with this. Palps is a good example of what I mean. I would use heavy hitters that get relyable accuracies to try to make people expend their defense tokens. So either 2 ISDs or 1 SSD. This would let you have the range and fire power to knock things off and create openings for smaller ships. I might be looking at that wrong, but I dont know yet.

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7 hours ago, Ling27 said:

relyable accuracies to try to make people expend their defense tokens. 

You probably want to shy away from accuracies when at the expense of damage.  Their whole point is preventing players from spending tokens, and unlike Intel Officer, Palpatine doesn’t need help against duplicate tokens (nor does he care about ECMs like an accuracy would, for that matter.)

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13 hours ago, Ling27 said:

I think you'll see some of the bigger names use bigger ships to help with this. Palps is a good example of what I mean. I would use heavy hitters that get relyable accuracies to try to make people expend their defense tokens. So either 2 ISDs or 1 SSD. This would let you have the range and fire power to knock things off and create openings for smaller ships. I might be looking at that wrong, but I dont know yet.

I would say the opposite; I think Palpatine is all about death by a thousand cuts rather than 1 or 2 big hits per turn.

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It was a horrendous nerf on Konstantine. Thankfully he is still obscenely powerful and will rise above their best efforts.

Is "after setup" the same as after deployment? When exactly is the timing on choosing targets?

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So wait: Tom and Harry are on a team. Tom is playing Dodonna. Harry is playing Akbar. Tom chooses his Dodonna effect to apply to Frank. If Harry shoots Frank and scores a crit, does he get a choice of four cards? Or is it only if Tom shoots at Frank? 

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34 minutes ago, LTD said:

So wait: Tom and Harry are on a team. Tom is playing Dodonna. Harry is playing Akbar. Tom chooses his Dodonna effect to apply to Frank. If Harry shoots Frank and scores a crit, does he get a choice of four cards? Or is it only if Tom shoots at Frank? 

I would like to 2nd this question

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Edit: Confusing myself.  I gotta Reread...

RIGHT.

 

Friendly Effects only effect YOUR OWN ships... 

But when it comes to ENEMY effects, they apply to THAT ONE ENEMY.  It does, however, apply to them

 

 

 

It'll apply to Frank all the time, as per usual.  Even when Frank runs over Asteroids.

However, Richard is on the same team as Frank - and it'll never apply to Richard.  Even when Tom fires at him.

 

And when Harry decides to use Ackbar, he can add Ackbar dice versus both Richard and Frank

Edited by Drasnighta

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So if Harry fires on Frank with Ackbar's extra dice, then he can look the firdt four damage cards thanks to Tom's Dodonna targeting Frank's fleet.

That adds some really interesting strategic choices to the game. It also means that we'll often see one player forced out of the fame early.

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On 2/15/2019 at 7:43 AM, Ginkapo said:

Is "after setup" the same as after deployment? When exactly is the timing on choosing targets?

RRG pg 10 SETUP. Deployment is part of setup. The steps of Setup are:

1.     Define Play Area and Setup Area
2.     Gather Components
3.     Determine Initiative
4.     Choose Objective
5.     Place Obstacles
6.     Deploy Ships
7.     Prepare Other Components
8.     Clean Up

Then Round 1 starts with the first Command Phase. So you pick your Dodonna target after deploying ships and cleaning up (you do clean up, right? You philistine!), but before setting dials.

This means "after setup" also comes after "after deploying fleets", so after things like declaring Pryce, most objective ships, etc.

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