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Juyo Berserker questions

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51 minutes ago, Jedi Ronin said:

We’re repeating the same points over and over again. We have very different notions of what s typical session involves and what a typical players does. And is the math behind it. 

You don’t think there’s a rocket or that this has negative consequences for game play. Fine. That’s the experience at my table and it’s a common complain of the Morality system.  

I’m not saying there is or there isn’t. I’m trying to give a possible reason why this might be happening. You might truly want to slow the progression, but, if your players are actively trying to make the morally correct choice, following the Jedi Code to the letter, and thus limit, if not eliminate, getting Conflict, then they will rocket up to Paragon status, and this may possibly be what they want for their characters. That’s not the fault of the Morality mechanic. That’s an active choice of the players and their characters. You’re never going to prevent a “rocket” to Paragon if the players don’t take Conflict worthy actions.  

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I’ve had comments that it’s too easy and that the mechanic is not engaging. 

And yet again the cycle goes on again where you insist that there is no rocket (or that it’s fine or what it’s designed to do or it’s RAW or  it’s maybe what my players want). I appreciate the effort but it’s clear (for a while) now you’re already telling me things I already know  and have considered.

I’ve been pretty clear multiple times what I’m trying to accomplish and what the issues are for my group. You just refuse to accept it. But thanks for the comments anyway. 

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I understand what you want to accomplish, and I accept that you’re having trouble doing so. My point is that it’s not an issue with the RAW. It’s likely simply that your players don’t make enough Conflict worthy actions, and as such, nothing you can do will stop the “rocket” to Paragon. The only thing that will slow down their rise to Paragon is earning more Conflict, and that requires them to make morally poor choices, use more DSPs, failing Fear checks, or any combination thereof. And that requires you to put them in more situations where they have to make those choices, and make it more difficult to make the morally correct choice. The trick is to do so without being heavy handed or arbitrary. That is the only option. 

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I find all of this discussion very interesting.

and as for my two cents. I’ve found that if a player invests heavily in force powers (especially combat based ones) the morality system or at least the path to paragon a little more interesting. I have wondered for a while if this is actually the developers intended use for conflict.  It’s meant to be coupled with heavy force power use.  That is why RP wise it’s difficult to implement, and without a very force-centric character it’s way to easy to skyrocket to paragon  

has anyone else noticed this in their play?

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16 minutes ago, slope123 said:

I find all of this discussion very interesting.

and as for my two cents. I’ve found that if a player invests heavily in force powers (especially combat based ones) the morality system or at least the path to paragon a little more interesting. I have wondered for a while if this is actually the developers intended use for conflict.  It’s meant to be coupled with heavy force power use.  That is why RP wise it’s difficult to implement, and without a very force-centric character it’s way to easy to skyrocket to paragon  

has anyone else noticed this in their play?

Certainly characters that never roll their Force dice (because they instead use powers that Commit dice) tend to gather less Conflict. This is kinda weird in that the Commit route is "safe" in comparison to active use.

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1 minute ago, HappyDaze said:

Certainly characters that never roll their Force dice (because they instead use powers that Commit dice) tend to gather less Conflict. This is kinda weird in that the Commit route is "safe" in comparison to active use.

I just found this interesting because a a GM I struggled to come up with situations that gave conflict.  I usually just resorted to the “random dude is being mugged, do you rescue him and take conflict for fighting or do you ignore him and take conflict for that.”  Even that was difficult since most of my campaigns took place in places where this didn’t make sense (not to mention how it ruined the flow of the session).  However, later on I played in a campaign with a new GM to help him get practice, and I picked a force combat based character, and I found that conflict management was actually interesting on my end. I didn’t float up to paragon and I actually had to make difficult choices (thanks to dsp) to remain a Jedi, and the GM did nearly nothing to actually force this (other than the usually difficult campaign decisions).

So, the tl;dr is either the system is designed for use with force powers, or I was just a good player and made it interesting by my GMunderstanding of the rules. 

I never thought about that for committing dice, but you are right.  I wonder if there is a house rule that could be implemented here?

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28 minutes ago, slope123 said:

I just found this interesting because a a GM I struggled to come up with situations that gave conflict.  I usually just resorted to the “random dude is being mugged, do you rescue him and take conflict for fighting or do you ignore him and take conflict for that.”  Even that was difficult since most of my campaigns took place in places where this didn’t make sense (not to mention how it ruined the flow of the session).  However, later on I played in a campaign with a new GM to help him get practice, and I picked a force combat based character, and I found that conflict management was actually interesting on my end. I didn’t float up to paragon and I actually had to make difficult choices (thanks to dsp) to remain a Jedi, and the GM did nearly nothing to actually force this (other than the usually difficult campaign decisions).

So, the tl;dr is either the system is designed for use with force powers, or I was just a good player and made it interesting by my GMunderstanding of the rules. 

I never thought about that for committing dice, but you are right.  I wonder if there is a house rule that could be implemented here?

The problem with your mugging example is that fighting, or even killing, in and of itself, does not garner Conflict (unless you're a follower of the Dagoyan faith). It's only in attacking unprovoked, killing in cold-blood, harming or killing a helpless individual, that garners Conflict. Attacking to defend another, killing to defend your life or that of another, these do not garner Conflict. Period

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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