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dzoni_dji

What happens if you run out of damage cards and none of your ships is destroyed? It IS possible

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In rules reference it says that "If a damage deck is empty when a damage card must be dealt or drawn, remove all damage cards from destroyed cards from destroyed ships, flip them facedown, and shuffle them to create a new damage deck."

But what if my damage deck is empty and none of my ships is destroyed?

With my latest list that I fly in a local league, it is possible to happen:

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) R5 Astromech
(4) Ion Cannon Turret
(5) Proton Bombs
Points 44

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) Ion Cannon Turret
(4) R5 Astromech
Points 39

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) R5 Astromech
(4) Ion Cannon Turret
Points 39

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) R5 Astromech
(4) Ion Cannon Turret
Points 39

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(4) R5 Astromech
(4) Ion Cannon Turret
Points 39

Total points: 200

This is all highly theoretical, but because my opponents in my league are stubborn and don't want to admit that I found a way for my ships to be indestructible, I just have to ask the officials for confirmation for this corner case.

Basically, this is what happens:

When R5 Astromech repairs dmg card, that card is not going back to the dmg deck - it is discarded.

If all my ships do that twice that is 5x2 = 10 dmg cards out of the game.

They still have 30 hulls left and there is only 23 dmg cards left in my deck, so if the damage is scattered between them IT IS POSSIBLE that all of them are alive and I am left with empty damage deck.

So it is logical that if this happens my ships become merely indestructible, is that right? :D

Edited by dzoni_dji

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If only... R5 would be on everything. :)

There's not anything specifically written about running out of damage cards in any of the official documents. However, taking your discarded damage cards, shuffling them and using them as a "new" damage deck is the generally agreed upon solution to the issue.

The more interesting discussion is what to do if you have more than 33 hulls on the board. You can get 34 hull points with 4 Freighter Captains and an Autopilot Drone for Scum. You can almost do it with 3 Resistance Bombers or 3 YV-666's already or, with a point drop, the VCX-100 or Decimator.

And eventually, hopefully, Epic will be a thing in 2.0 and having 33 hull on the board could happen easily.

Edited by Nspace

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You reshuffle the discard into a new deck and use that, noting that any destroyed ships' cards go into the discard at that point.


And if you manage to get to the point where all the cards are in play on ships that are alive (impossible in standard-points play I believe), then you use some kind of marker, instead, and yes at that point things can't get critted.  But they also probably can't be damaged without dying anyway.

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Ok, here is a list for you:

New Squadron

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
Points 31

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
Points 31

Total points: 198

That is 40 hulls, and all ships CAN BE still in play without any kind of discard pile. I am not going to use some kind of marker, they are INDESTRUCTIBLE! 😂😂😂

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10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

 But they also probably can't be damaged without dying anyway.

Oh really?

6 * gray squadron bomber, 4 * hull upgrade.

When all cards are spent, it is possible that all are left one 1 wound and one is left on 2. What if that guy suffers only 1 unsaved hit? Where in rules does it state that you can use custom tokens? :D

For the notice, this is meant to be funny.

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6 minutes ago, Jagos said:

Oh really?

6 * gray squadron bomber, 4 * hull upgrade.

When all cards are spent, it is possible that all are left one 1 wound and one is left on 2. What if that guy suffers only 1 unsaved hit? Where in rules does it state that you can use custom tokens? :D

For the notice, this is meant to be funny.

 

8 minutes ago, dzoni_dji said:

Ok, here is a list for you:

New Squadron

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
Points 31

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
Points 31

Total points: 198

That is 40 hulls, and all ships CAN BE still in play without any kind of discard pile. I am not going to use some kind of marker, they are INDESTRUCTIBLE! 😂😂😂

You can have 34 cards in play without one of them dying, which means the last hit needs to be exactly one damage for it to remotely matter, and, you know, it's a trash list nobody would fly.  But sure in this edge card you might wind up hitting this rules issue they haven't ported in from 1e yet (because it actually wasn't possible in 1e, except in epic which is I guess why it was addressed in the tourney rules for 1e).

It should be in the rules, sure, but it really doesn't matter that it's not.

 

The more important issue, of what you do when you run out of cards and at least one ship is dead, is dealt with.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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24 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

You reshuffle the discard into a new deck and use that, noting that any destroyed ships' cards go into the discard at that point.

Erm... They get shuffled into the damage deck if the damage deck runs out now. It changed when 2.0 dropped. 

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18 minutes ago, dzoni_dji said:

Ok, here is a list for you:

New Squadron

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 34

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
Points 31

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber
Points 31

Total points: 198

That is 40 hulls, and all ships CAN BE still in play without any kind of discard pile. I am not going to use some kind of marker, they are INDESTRUCTIBLE! 😂😂😂

 

#OH MAI GAWD BROKE DA GAYME!

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5 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

The discard pile's cards are open information, face down damage cards on ships, even when destroyed, aren't.

I think that destroyed ships damage cards are also classified as open information.

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1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

They are not.

They are. It’s in the tournament regulations.

 

**edit** I stand corrected, only discarded damage cards are open information 

Edited by irishthump

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Just now, irishthump said:

They are. It’s in the tournament regulations.

You mean this?: "Each player’s destroyed ships, lost shields, lost charges, and discarded
damage cards are open information."

The only damage cards that are specified to be able to be looked at are those that have been discarded.

Hmm, RR Page 8 (pay special attention to the sections I've underlined):

"Damage Cards

Damage cards are used to track how much damage a ship has suffered. When a ship needs to be dealt damage cards, the player uses their own damage deck. After a ship is destroyed, its damage cards remain on that ship.

Some abilities can cause damage cards to be flipped. A facedown damage card can be EXPOSED, which flips it faceup and the effect is resolved. Both facedown and faceup damage cards can be REPAIRED. If a faceup damage card is repaired, it is flipped facedown. If a facedown damage card is repaired, it is discarded.

Exposing a damage card does not count as dealing a damage card and therefore does not trigger abilities related to suffering damage.

If an ability exposes or repairs a ship's facedown damage card, and the ship has multiple facedown damage cards, the card is chosen randomly from the facedown damage cards the ship has.

To randomly select a facedown damage card, one player shuffles those cards and the other player chooses one.

If an ability allows a ship to repair a damage card without specifying faceup or facedown, the player can choose to repair either type.

A ship's hull value is not reduced by being dealt damage cards.

The text of a ship's facedown damage cards cannot be looked at unless an effect specifies to do so.

If a damage deck is empty when a damage card must be dealt or drawn, remove all damage cards from destroyed ships, flip them facedown, and shuffle them to create a new damage deck.

Each damage card is numbered 1-14 on the bottom of the card. Near that number, there is a number of pips that indicate the number of copies of that damage card that are in the deck. This is useful to identify whether cards are missing and if so, how many and which cards."

Simple summary: Only discarded Damage Cards are open information. A destroyed ships do not have their damage cards discarded. Only repaired damage cards are discarded. A ship's face down cards CANNOT be looked at unless an effect specifies it.

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6 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

You mean this?: "Each player’s destroyed ships, lost shields, lost charges, and discarded
damage cards are open information."

The only damage cards that are specified to be able to be looked at are those that have been discarded.

Hmm, RR Page 8 (pay special attention to the sections I've underlined):

"Damage Cards

Damage cards are used to track how much damage a ship has suffered. When a ship needs to be dealt damage cards, the player uses their own damage deck. After a ship is destroyed, its damage cards remain on that ship.

Some abilities can cause damage cards to be flipped. A facedown damage card can be EXPOSED, which flips it faceup and the effect is resolved. Both facedown and faceup damage cards can be REPAIRED. If a faceup damage card is repaired, it is flipped facedown. If a facedown damage card is repaired, it is discarded.

Exposing a damage card does not count as dealing a damage card and therefore does not trigger abilities related to suffering damage.

If an ability exposes or repairs a ship's facedown damage card, and the ship has multiple facedown damage cards, the card is chosen randomly from the facedown damage cards the ship has.

To randomly select a facedown damage card, one player shuffles those cards and the other player chooses one.

If an ability allows a ship to repair a damage card without specifying faceup or facedown, the player can choose to repair either type.

A ship's hull value is not reduced by being dealt damage cards.

The text of a ship's facedown damage cards cannot be looked at unless an effect specifies to do so.

If a damage deck is empty when a damage card must be dealt or drawn, remove all damage cards from destroyed ships, flip them facedown, and shuffle them to create a new damage deck.

Each damage card is numbered 1-14 on the bottom of the card. Near that number, there is a number of pips that indicate the number of copies of that damage card that are in the deck. This is useful to identify whether cards are missing and if so, how many and which cards."

Simple summary: Only discarded Damage Cards are open information. A destroyed ships do not have their damage cards discarded. Only repaired damage cards are discarded. A ship's face down cards CANNOT be looked at unless an effect specifies it.

Yes I realize that. Post was edited to reflect my error.

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1 hour ago, dzoni_dji said:

Ok so after all we agreed, they are indeed indestructible. Thanks a lot guys!

🤨 Only if your opponent doesn't focus fire. They pop like anything else if your opponent does.

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3 hours ago, dzoni_dji said:

Ok so after all we agreed, they are indeed indestructible. Thanks a lot guys!

This is hilarious!   If it were only true  :D 

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