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the most important question for weaker ships and wave 3 wave 4 stuff: Strong MISSILES or torpedoes?

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Aethersprite is where it needs to be.  Either configuration adds a sufficient amount of offensive power.

V-19 Torrent is uncertain.  Depends on pricing.  I kind of expect it to be closer in price to a Z-95 or TIE fighter (24 points for an Init 2? 25?).  Does a TIE Fighter need more offense?  No.  It has numbers.  If the Torrent is up around TIE Bomber pricing, 28ish, for example, it hopefully would have two missile slots.

//

As to missiles in general, depends on what folks mean by better missiles.  I don't necessarily think there need to be more powerful missile upgrades.  I think the missiles themselves need to be cheaper.  I like that missiles are distinctive from Torpedoes, tending to be 3 dice and more charges, rather than 4-dice like most Torpedoes.  I know Homing and the upcoming [Plasma?] Torpedoes break that mold, but still.

I feel like Ion, Cluster, and Concussion at least could go down a point, maybe Proton.  Homing and Barrage seem fine where they are.  I'd love for missiles to be cheap and with a middle power level, while torpedoes are expensive with high power.

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23 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:



Hmm, this was the first time I really processed that Obi-Wan Kenobi is I5 while Seasee Tin is only I4.  This seems weird to me, given that Obi-Wan repeatedly notes that he hates flying and seems uncomfortable in the cockpit during AotCs and RotS, while Seasee Tin was supposedly the order's best pilot, even rivaling Anakin's talents.

Now, I know FFG has said that they moved to "Initiative" instead of "Pilot Skill" so that higher numbers we're meant to be 'better' pilots than lower numbers, but ... come'on, we all know it's the same!  🤣

he was higher Initiative because he's on edge 24/7 in space, sharpening his jedi instincts to their utmost peak

hence why Jango could hit every molecule around his Aethersprite, but not the Aethersprite itself

TanHelpfulHedgehog-max-1mb.gif

Also, the Torrent is basically a worse TIE bomber...so we're probably going to see some real economical costing on that vessel to make barrage rockets EXTRA enticing :)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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for the life of me, i cant figure out why people don't compare the torrent to a quadjumper. its got the same statline, and those things NEVER die easy. plus it has an evade action. they're gonna be harder to kill than anyone assumes. 

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16 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

for the life of me, i cant figure out why people don't compare the torrent to a quadjumper. its got the same statline, and those things NEVER die easy. plus it has an evade action. they're gonna be harder to kill than anyone assumes. 

Maybe we're used to Quadjumpers dying easy?

:D

Anyhow, I think the reason is the Quad's special ability makes it really hard to compare to.  Tractors are such a huge part of the Quad's price and effect on the game that they're kinda in a world of their own.

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4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Maybe we're used to Quadjumpers dying easy?

:D

Anyhow, I think the reason is the Quad's special ability makes it really hard to compare to.  Tractors are such a huge part of the Quad's price and effect on the game that they're kinda in a world of their own.

I would also add to that the Quadjumper dial is actually very good, notably better than the dial for the V-19 to be honest.

So similar stats to the Quad, but that amazing built in ability and better dial means that the V-19's really need to be coming in at 25-26 points maximum to be viable, anything closer to 30 points and they will be horribly overcosted, which would be a shame as I really want to play republic but im not sure squads exclusively made of Sprites and ARC's will be viable

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1 hour ago, Mace Windu said:

I would also add to that the Quadjumper dial is actually very good, notably better than the dial for the V-19 to be honest.

Quad Dial is great.  There's nothing fast, but all the normal moves are white, and all the red moves are special.

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17 hours ago, nikk whyte said:

for the life of me, i cant figure out why people don't compare the torrent to a quadjumper. its got the same statline, and those things NEVER die easy. plus it has an evade action. they're gonna be harder to kill than anyone assumes. 

I was thinking the TIE aggressor, to be honest.

Most missiles being 3 dice (or more but with a downside) is fine considering that the vast majority of missile carriers are 2-dice primary ships; concussion missiles are a cheap way to get a 3rd attack die rather than a wonder-weapon like torpedoes.

I think the Torrent is acceptably tough, especially with Devoted - since you wouldn't be rerolling a die unless you had a 'useless' result, triggering Devoted essentially makes you an agility 3 ship for that attack, at the cost of someone else in your squad being agility 1....but even then, tempting your opponent to spread out fire would be good.

18 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I feel like Ion, Cluster, and Concussion at least could go down a point, maybe Proton.

I dunno. Probably one of the best points of comparison is the generic TIE/sf, which can either pay 10 points for a Special Forces Gunner or equip a missile. Given that you can pack concussion missiles and a fire control system and still end up cheaper than taking the gunner, I think missiles are fairly cheap already.

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42 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

[Cheaper Ion/Cluster/Concussion Missiles]

I dunno. Probably one of the best points of comparison is the generic TIE/sf, which can either pay 10 points for a Special Forces Gunner or equip a missile. Given that you can pack concussion missiles and a fire control system and still end up cheaper than taking the gunner, I think missiles are fairly cheap already.

Maybe.  Kinda seems like most missiles are under-used some, and that like the x1, a bit of a point cut would go a long way.  Low-init Lock based attacks can still be kinda tricky.

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The Aggressor is similar in statline, but the turrets are so cheap now that they're basically built in, which makes it a little harder to compare them. I agree with the people expecting just mod/missile(/talent) on the V-19, which makes the upgrade bar and statline strictly worse, while the dial is arguably worse (but definitely not by much). The action bar is better, but again, not by much.  I generally disagree that upgrade slots should have an inherent cost, except when the upgrade slot is tied so closely to the ship that you'd never fly it without it filled. I'd say the TIE Aggressor is an example of this. It's costed the way it is (which looks a little expensive), because those options are very cheap, and if you're not bringing a turret you might as well take a different ship, like a Bomber, Fighter or Advanced x1.

So in this case, I'd say worse upgrade bar lets us substract a point or maybe two. The shield might make a difference, so maybe a point for that as well. You could also argue that the Republic has access to buffs far ahead of anything the Empire can offer a tiny turret ship (although Palpatine sounds like an interesting choice), but I'd say that's where faction identity should lie, not in which ships are cheap and which are expensive. So, I'd have it cost 26-28 points. Since I'll be playing Republic in Hyperspace for the forseeable future I'd be pleasantly surprised if it hits 25, but the 23 points suggested by some other people seems completely far-fetched to me.

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So, staring at missiles, one thing that stands out to me is that Ion Missiles are now what Homing Missiles were before, a way to try and chip in a single point of damage but with high upside potential. 

Under the old points, Homing Missiles were both more consistent and cheaper, which has been fixed, and Ion Missiles are the cheapest in slot now. But at the same time, Ions are still the same price as they were when nobody took them before. 

How do they stack up in Hyperspace? Specifically:

Wave 3 brings Scum the Z-95. You can fit 7 Z-95s with Ion Missiles. You lose, what, one before you shoot, and a second before you shoot with locks up? Is this potentially a competitive hyperspace list? 

Wave 3 also introduces the Torrent, which seems to be comparable to a Z-95 in at least a few ways. A similar question stands, especially since the Torrent has limited fallbacks - the Vulture has other toys in the toybox and Scum has plenty of other ships, but the Torrent is a full third of its faction at launch with no fallback if missiles fail it.

Then there's the wave 3 Vulture, which will have two new missiles of its own but points will decide how difficult those choices are; and the wave 4 Hyena, although that looks to have torpedoes and bombing rather than being a pure missile boat.

Hyperspace doesn't have any swarmable missile platform currently, and the next two waves will introduce a total of four to the format. Just how explored, or unexplored, is this territory? Could 7x Ion Z-95s take your current hyperspace list? 

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Concussion missiles coming down 1 point would really help.

Is there suppose to be a new double slot missile? I know plasma torps are back as a 3-attack torp.

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On 2/12/2019 at 6:36 PM, Frimmel said:

I'm thinking Homing Missiles on the V-19s. They'll pass the lock they don't need to use for a re-roll to another V-19 with Homing Missiles via Sync console or keeping range one. High I Jedi takes a lock or Battle Meditation or Oddball with Sync Console and his buddy Swoop to get the lock. 

V-19s get the lock from Sync consoles or co-ordinated actions then will pass it to an ARC with Proton Torpedoes who launches his ordnance with a full mods since he took a focus as his action. Get some re-rolls with Sinker or spread some tokens with Axe. Maybe Tucker picks up a free focus and the lock that's been passed around. 

I'm thinking better missiles with what we've seen of the Clones might be a be-careful-what-you-ask-for sort of thing. 

I'm upvoting you because I want you to be right.  I don't know the ordnances well enough to know though.

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43 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I'm upvoting you because I want you to be right.  I don't know the ordnances well enough to know though.

I think with the homing missiles the action economy suggested by the sync console will be there. Folks will take the auto damage and the lock will be preserved to get passed. Lists with Lots of greens might chance forcing the shot to try and burn the lock but it doesn't seem the best option.

Lots of working parts and a couple of ways to build it but I see a real chance at two auto damage and a full mods torpedo. All depends on the points though. But the parts are suggested. Very curious what we will get on that high I ARC. 

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