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ArmadaMatt

Terrain for Armada?

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Seeing the new Downed AT-ST for Legion got me thinking, what if FFG produced terrain pieces for Armada? Some potential pieces:

  • "Premium" models of the standard obstacles (asteroids, station, etc)
  • Thematic scenarios (like the Scarif gate so many have already discussed)
  • Armada equivalent to a downed AT-ST: stranded or destroyed capital ship with valuable cargo that must be captured
  • Skyhooks, shipyards, or other types of artificial satellites
  • Mines or space turrets

Personally I'd love to see a product like this, as it could add a little extra variety to the game and increase the visual interest on the board.

I know there are already existing options from Mel's Miniatures for some of this stuff, but I would like to see these things come with actual rules, objectives, and scenarios. Plus I'd rather not have more stuff to paint; I can barely paint my squadrons!

Thoughts?

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50 minutes ago, ArmadaMatt said:

Seeing the new Downed AT-ST for Legion got me thinking, what if FFG produced terrain pieces for Armada? Some potential pieces:

  • "Premium" models of the standard obstacles (asteroids, station, etc)
  • Thematic scenarios (like the Scarif gate so many have already discussed)
  • Armada equivalent to a downed AT-ST: stranded or destroyed capital ship with valuable cargo that must be captured
  • Skyhooks, shipyards, or other types of artificial satellites
  • Mines or space turrets

Personally I'd love to see a product like this, as it could add a little extra variety to the game and increase the visual interest on the board.

I know there are already existing options from Mel's Miniatures for some of this stuff, but I would like to see these things come with actual rules, objectives, and scenarios. Plus I'd rather not have more stuff to paint; I can barely paint my squadrons!

Thoughts?

I think it's a cool idea, but ultimately difficult in practice. 

Legion uses literal measurements in all 3 axis, so a piece of terrain can be maneuvered on to over or around based on what it's determined to be, Armada fudges the Z axis completely. That's where we'd run into issues. Ultimately the way maneuvering works in Armada means ships overlap "terrain" if you add a Z dimensions to that terrain like clumps of rocks or a space station, it would have to come up off the mat any time it got touched... It would look cool, but I think, especially with huge scale ship on the way, it would be tricky to handle in the game state. 

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8 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Ultimately the way maneuvering works in Armada means ships overlap "terrain" if you add a Z dimensions to that terrain like clumps of rocks or a space station, it would have to come up off the mat any time it got touched...

This one is easy to resolve as long as there is a 2D-version of that terrain piece underneath. This way in the case of overlap 3D part is removed and the overlap is resolved without losing or altering any game state info.

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Just now, PT106 said:

This one is easy to resolve as long as there is a 2D-version of that terrain piece underneath. This way in the case of overlap 3D part is removed and the overlap is resolved without losing or altering any game state info.

Sure enough. Just seems to me terrain you have to remove to use the effect of is a bit tedious. It would definitely make the game state appearance inconstant. (It's the only reason I haven't made my own or bought some of the cool ones). 

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Whether people like 3d terrain is a matter of taste, of course. But the more substantive opportunity this might represent is adding new types of obstacles for Armada, and including new objectives to go with them. I'd pay $20 for 3 new obstacle types and 6 new objectives that use them.

I think there are some missed opportunities here by Fantasy Flight to support Armada without the huge outlay of producing new ship models. One opportunity would be something like I outlined above with new objectives. Others would be to offer alternate ship placards/prototypes of existing ship models, new squadron ace packs (squad dials and cards, no plastic), or even just reprinting cards with errata (mainly aesthetic since the FAQ applies even to the old versions).

 

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You guys make a good point about having to move the pieces whenever a ship overlaps. So to take that into account, what about the ideas of larger terrain pieces (say something like a larger space station or the Scarif gate) that take collision rules into effect?

Quote

But the more substantive opportunity this might represent is adding new types of obstacles for Armada, and including new objectives to go with them. I'd pay $20 for 3 new obstacle types and 6 new objectives that use them.

I guess this is what I originally was driving at, but didn't explain well. From what I read of the Downed AT-ST Legion piece, it's not just eye-candy but brings extra game play with it. I'm a casual player, so the idea of scenarios interests me just as much as new ships do.

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1 hour ago, Englishpete said:

I have some great terrain for Armada and never use it as it gets in the way and is always having to be moved when ships/squads overlap it.

It's a great theory, but awful in practice..

I found this to be the case with forests and such in Warmachine. Looks really nice, but gets in the way and slows down gameplay.

That said I'd let quite like some nice terrain  options. 

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I think for Armada there should be more thematic mats,  I really like the way they contribute to the game ( my favorites are Endor and Bespin)

Scarif, Coruscant, Hoth ( proper with no At-At seen from space), Tatooine, Naboo, Jakku ( maybe downed ships barely seen) and many more, even Legion mats with a topdown look would be nice ( bigger scale).

of course they have to be a bit cheaper so we can buy more than one :)

 

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2 hours ago, Englishpete said:

I have some great terrain for Armada and never use it as it gets in the way and is always having to be moved when ships/squads overlap it.

It's a great theory, but awful in practice..

If you gave each obstacle a base, like a ship, that is also slightly larger than the model, then if you bump the base, you take a damage, as per the normal game. No need to move anything then.

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6 hours ago, ArmadaMatt said:
  • "Premium" models of the standard obstacles (asteroids, station, etc)
  • Thematic scenarios (like the Scarif gate so many have already discussed)
  • Armada equivalent to a downed AT-ST: stranded or destroyed capital ship with valuable cargo that must be captured
  • Skyhooks, shipyards, or other types of artificial satellites
  • Mines or space turrets

Personally I'd love to see a product like this, as it could add a little extra variety to the game and increase the visual interest on the board.

Me and  Mel miniatures are doing that kind of thing.  But to be honest I would have like that FFG make 3D obstacle and other cool scenery element for Armada and I somewhat hope we will get some one day.  

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I've played with 3d obstacles and we ended up mostly removing them. Too much getting in the way of ships, squadrons, tools...

However, I'd be all for a new class of "ship" for space stations; square base, 4 hull zones, "ship" card, speed 0, Defense Tokens (special ability to use them at speed 0), upgrade slots (including Fleet Support?), normal rules for overlapping etc. The main question would be how you convinced your opponent to come into range of them.

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I know the Scarif shield gate has already been mentioned, but I'd love to see a good model of that with some objectives to go with it.

7 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

If you gave each obstacle a base, like a ship, that is also slightly larger than the model, then if you bump the base, you take a damage, as per the normal game. No need to move anything then.

This would work well! And just add a few additional rules/clarifications that are unique to the Scarif gate. It'd look amazing.

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1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

I'd be down for TIE Fighter's XQ platforms and other space objects appearing as terrain, with accompanying missions.

I got that. The platform from Shapeways and the missions are self made:
 

 

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Back in the day, before they got a CaD from Lucasfilm, I got a set of terrain from Space Rocks. The bases are the exact shape of the existing terrain, so you can put the regular terrain down and place the 3D model on top, allowing for easy removal when needed while keeping the terrain in place.

This looks awesome, but as stated it can be a bit of a hassle to constantly be moving stuff around. I've kept it mostly for demonstration games and such.

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31 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Back in the day, before they got a CaD from Lucasfilm, I got a set of terrain from Space Rocks. The bases are the exact shape of the existing terrain, so you can put the regular terrain down and place the 3D model on top, allowing for easy removal when needed while keeping the terrain in place.

This looks awesome, but as stated it can be a bit of a hassle to constantly be moving stuff around. I've kept it mostly for demonstration games and such.

I have the same stuff. Looks great, but to your point, is a hassle in practice.

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15 hours ago, RobertK said:

Whether people like 3d terrain is a matter of taste, of course. But the more substantive opportunity this might represent is adding new types of obstacles for Armada, and including new objectives to go with them. I'd pay $20 for 3 new obstacle types and 6 new objectives that use them.

$20, sure...but the downed AT-ST is being listed for $49.95 and that seems to me a bit expensive for what it's bringing to the table.

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Even if it was just new peices of cardboard, I’d appreciate the opportunity to introduce a new thing with some rules or objectives attached.

Scarrif seems like something that would have to be its own pair of play mats — but no reason that can’t have scenario rules, too!

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The thing about 3d obstacles that makes them useful is that you are more aware of them amd how they will impact your actions. A mostly black piece of  cardboard on a black background gets overlooked a lot until you realize that you have no choice but to crash. All because you did not readily see it. In my experience, 3d terrain affects the choices people make for movement and cover far more that a piece of cardboard. 

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