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Arvel is not taking Intimidation?!

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After a couple of games I decided that arvel is best off with Predator and Crackshot instead of Predator and Intimidation. I have yet to have a moment were I was bumping and not in the bullseye arc. He feels a bit more solid allrounder and a bit cheaper. I am also less tempted to do a "crossing fingers and hope to bump" move.

Is the crackshot just more bang for buck on Arvel?

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My biggest problem with Arvel is the low pilot skill. He wants to bump and stay bumped which is harder to pull of when most of the valuable ships are above his pilot skill. This means he needs to predict a bump instead of initiating it with the partial boost. 

If he was a 4 or a 5 he would be a monster, this way he is a gimmick. 

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1 hour ago, PS10 said:

After a couple of games I decided that arvel is best off with Predator and Crackshot instead of Predator and Intimidation. I have yet to have a moment were I was bumping and not in the bullseye arc. He feels a bit more solid allrounder and a bit cheaper. I am also less tempted to do a "crossing fingers and hope to bump" move.

Is the crackshot just more bang for buck on Arvel?

The comparison isn't exact, because of the timing, but surely you realise that triggering Intimidation just twice in a game is better than Crack Shot? 

Crack Shot can cancel out one result per game. Intimidation can stop that result ever being rolled. 

Intimidation also benefits everything else in the list. If you're using Arvel properly, it shouldn't just be him shooting a target, it should be everyone else in your list. The value of that reduced agility is worth so much more than Crack Shot when you look at it that way. 

50 minutes ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

My biggest problem with Arvel is the low pilot skill. He wants to bump and stay bumped which is harder to pull of when most of the valuable ships are above his pilot skill. This means he needs to predict a bump instead of initiating it with the partial boost. 

It's called blocking, and at one time it used to be a very valuable skill.

The boost into bump part of Arvel's ability is absolutely a gimmick, yes. I think I've used it once. But the ability to shoot at range 0 is very valuable. The real trick is getting to Arvel to block while also keeping the target in arc. 

It's not easy, but it's doable. Just takes a bit of practice. Personally, I'd much rather Arvel be lower Initiative. In the hands of a good player, he'd be nigh on broken at something like I5. 

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1 minute ago, GuacCousteau said:

The comparison isn't exact, because of the timing, but surely you realise that triggering Intimidation just twice in a game is better than Crack Shot? 

Crack Shot can cancel out one result per game. Intimidation can stop that result ever being rolled. 

Intimidation also benefits everything else in the list. If you're using Arvel properly, it shouldn't just be him shooting a target, it should be everyone else in your list. The value of that reduced agility is worth so much more than Crack Shot when you look at it that way. 

It's called blocking, and at one time it used to be a very valuable skill.

The boost into bump part of Arvel's ability is absolutely a gimmick, yes. I think I've used it once. But the ability to shoot at range 0 is very valuable. The real trick is getting to Arvel to block while also keeping the target in arc. 

It's not easy, but it's doable. Just takes a bit of practice. Personally, I'd much rather Arvel be lower Initiative. In the hands of a good player, he'd be nigh on broken at something like I5. 

Yeah I fully agree with you. That's why I said he would be a monster at I5. But heres the deal. Half of what makes him special is the partial boost. That is wasted on him if he will be blocking and at that point you're paying a premium for a ship thats just a blocker. I would rather then get a dirt cheap blocker and invest the points into something else. 

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15 minutes ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

Half of what makes him special is the partial boost. That is wasted on him if he will be blocking and at that point you're paying a premium for a ship thats just a blocker

It really, really isn't.

That was my point. 

It may take up half the text on his card, but it absolutely is not half of Arvel's use. Like I said, the partial boost is a total gimmick. Arvel is still worth much more than just a low I blocker by virtue of the fact he is the only ship in the game outside of something like APT Rhymer who can block, still manage to shoot the ship he blocked and not get shot in return. 

You are not paying the extra points for Arvel over a GSP for the partial boost. You are paying them to be able to shoot at range 0. 

Also, have you actually seen the points gap  between him and the generics? Arvel is not a 'premium' pilot. He costs 34 points. a Phoenix Squadron pilot is 30 points. What exactly are you investing those 4 points in elsewhere by taking a dirt cheap blocker instead of Arvel? 

 

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Ok thank you for the insight... I really misread Intimidation, thinking it would work only on itself.

57 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Also, have you actually seen the points gap  between him and the generics? Arvel is not a 'premium' pilot. He costs 34 points. a Phoenix Squadron pilot is 30 points. What exactly are you investing those 4 points in elsewhere by taking a dirt cheap blocker instead of Arvel? 

But with intimidation and predator he clocks in at 39 points, thats near 3 attack dice ships.

I might try running him naked next time I want to run a ps1 awing and have a couple of points leftover.

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1 hour ago, PS10 said:

Ok thank you for the insight... I really misread Intimidation, thinking it would work only on itself.

But with intimidation and predator he clocks in at 39 points, thats near 3 attack dice ships.

I might try running him naked next time I want to run a ps1 awing and have a couple of points leftover.

If your looking away because of attack dice, your also looking at things from a poor reference. Arvel still gets his 3rd dice while reducing the opponent with intimidation. Additionally, 2 dice attacks are not quite the wet noodle they were in 1.0 given the lack of overall mods and inability to add additional results. Depending on your overall list the uptick you get for say 9 points is likely not going to be as substantial as you might think. You’ll also find against other low initiative list you’ll miss having that ramming element that Arvel can bring being a higher initiative himself.

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What about Arvel suported By Luke's Sense power?

I've made this:

RZ-1 A-wing - •Arvel Crynyd - 39
    •Arvel Crynyd - Green Leader (34)
        Intimidation (3)
        Predator (2)

T-65 X-wing - •Luke Skywalker - 84
    •Luke Skywalker - Red Five (62)
        Proton Torpedoes (12)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Sense (6)
        Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

T-65 X-wing - •Wedge Antilles - 70
    •Wedge Antilles - Red Two (52)
        Predator (2)
        Proton Torpedoes (12)
        R2 Astromech (4)
        Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

Total: 193/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Edited by DexterV

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2 hours ago, PS10 said:

But with intimidation and predator he clocks in at 39 points, thats near 3 attack dice ships.

I mean, yyyyyyyeahh. But you're also getting the benefit of those upgrades.

I don't think you can compare a ship with upgrades vs a naked ship only by looking at their attack dice. It's a lot of context to be ignoring. a 3 dice Blue Squadron X-Wing might only be 2 more points than 2 dice Arvel, but that 3 dice X-Wing is not getting a re-roll in bullseye, can't attack a ship at range 0 and can't reduce that ship's ability when it does. 

This is before you even get into the different statlines, action bars and playstyles. An A-Wing is not going to do the same job as an X-Wing. Arvel is a blocker, he wants to be blocking or bumping other ships. And when he does, he is at range 0 and throwing 3 red dice. A BSE would like to get to range 1 if it can, but will find that more difficult than an A-Wing with access to double reposition actions. A BSE also has fewer agility dice and no evade action, and may prefer to stay at longer range to avoid eating range 1 shots itself. At which point, Arvel and the BSE are rolling the same number off attack dice anyway. 

I just don't think you can necessarily compare a named pilot with upgrades with a naked generic. 

 

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21 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Arvel is a blocker, he wants to be blocking or bumping other ships.

He’s also an outstanding flanker and hunter of low initiative support shuttles, where he can make good use of his ability... ;) 

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Arvyl by himself needs to trigger intimidation twice to equal two attacks + 1 crackshot in expected hits. However, that doesnt take into consideration the damage output that his squad puts in from intimidation triggering. That is the key factor in determining to put it on Arvyl or not, can your squad take advantage? I dont think intimidation is glued to him. If you need the points to get afterburners on Wedge or some other key upgrade, then crackshot is a fine choice as well.

 

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