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Tvboy

What does Outer Rim mean for IA?

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Insofar as it relates to Imperial Assault, I doubt that the (alleged?) Hasbro agreement has much of an effect, beyond maybe lowering their margins if Hasbro is taking a cut.  But the fact that they're still producing games like this one means that the agreement can't be too one-sided, so I doubt that it has much of an effect on IA if at all.

If anything license-y was going to affect IA, the most plausible conspiracy theory that I heard (again, I have no evidence) is that it takes Disney a long time to vet anything that can have a narrative impact on the Star Wars universe, and that as such it could slow down releases.  But even that seems a little dicey since, even if true, they've still managed to come out with the app campaigns without much lag time (albeit with heavily recycled stories, so maybe that smooths things over?)

 

In any case, long story short is that I doubt that licensing issues have much of a hand at all in the current lack of IA news out of FFG

 

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Just now, ManateeX said:

Except I'm not looking for airtight logical proof, I'm speculating about my favourite board game with other fans on a Star Wars message board.  And if I'm presented with 1) a theory that makes practical sense, and has direct, measurable evidence to support it and 2) literally no other options presented....  I'm going to go with option 1 every time :P 

That's fine, but the problem is that a lot of people (and star wars fans are exceptionally bad at this) will speculate and then somewhere later will decide that their speculation is an actual fact and will defend that speculation in the face or any and all evidence to the contrary or against any lack of evidence.  It's cool to say "I think it might be this" as long as you continue with "but I could be wrong."

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On 2/11/2019 at 9:50 AM, ManateeX said:

If anything license-y was going to affect IA, the most plausible conspiracy theory that I heard (again, I have no evidence) is that it takes Disney a long time to vet anything that can have a narrative impact on the Star Wars universe, and that as such it could slow down releases.  But even that seems a little dicey since, even if true, they've still managed to come out with the app campaigns without much lag time (albeit with heavily recycled stories, so maybe that smooths things over?

Disney is super picky about approval.  Just ask Sorastro, who operates within the license scheme of Disney/FFG and has to get approval for his videos.  Anyway I think the campaigns can come quicker as the only thing that would probably need approval would be the text.  

Edited by Zrob314

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1 hour ago, Zrob314 said:

I don't have one.  I also don't care.

Them selling the game on their website or not has no bearing on whether this alleged restrictions exist.  This is because Rebellion exits, now the Outer Rim and LotA exists.  Since you referenced Occam's Razor earlier, I'll throw it back at you.
Thesis: FFG/Asmodee creating board games digital games on Star Wars license is a violation of said license and they are/will be/have been sued by Hasbro.

Proof for this thesis: IA not sold on the Website
Proof Against this thesis: LotA, Rebellion, Outer Rim, continued expansion of IA.  As to legal action no one has been able to produce a court filing in an matter between the companies (which would be a matter of public record dontchaknow).

Null hypothesis: There is some other reason for IA nto being sold on the website.
 

Seeing that evidence directly in contradiction continues to be produced I then conclude that there is some other reason for IA not being sold on the FFG website that does not necessarily confirm the thesis.  I am unable to reject the null hypothesis. 

Show me proof and I'm happy to accept it.  So far every single time I'v asked someone to produce documentation they have been unable to do so. 

Ask FFG yourself dude. If you are lucky they may have the time to respond... months later... without so much as a read receipt on your email...

Edited by King_Balrog

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Some fairly official-looking things to base your opinions on:

1) Since 1997 Hasbro has had an exclusive license for Star Wars toys and boardgames in some territories (at least in USA/Canada)  ( http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2018-09-16-the-cost-of-hasbros-star-wars-license/ ,  read https://corporate.findlaw.com/contracts/operations/toy-license-agreement-lucas-licensing-ltd-and-hasbro-inc2.html )

2) Thus due to Hasbro's exclusive license on Star Wars toys and boardgames, 2011 FFG cannot get a license for Star Wars boardgames while getting the license for everything else.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2011/8/2/use-the-force/

Fantasy Flight Games is pleased to announce that it has entered a comprehensive licensing partnership with Lucasfilm Ltd. for the worldwide rights to publish card, roleplaying, and miniatures games set in the popular

Star Wars™ universe!

(FFG would've grabbed the SW boardgame license if they could've. I remember Christian T. Petersen talking about how they grabbed all the SW licenses they could get in some interview video. Anyone is welcome to find it and post the link if I don't come across it today. If it was in some X-Wing video, I'm probably not finding it.)

Then,

- Imperial Assault comes along. It has miniatures, but FFG is promoting it as a Star Wars boardgame in the box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnrlBSvzxuU&t=3120

(According to the video Disney acquiring LFL didn't change much, nothing related to licensing was mentioned.)

- Rumors that Imperial Assault distribution changes. (You can in all probability verify it being a fact and not a rumor if you ask the stores.)

- FFG doesn't sell Imperial Assault on their webstore.

- FFG comes up with another SW boardgame. It isn't sold in their webstore either.

Your opinion is yours.

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5 hours ago, a1bert said:

If I can find it. It's been a few years you know, and like I edited above, I might be mixing it up with Petersen confirming they could use Prequel materials - which was why I asked to look for it.

For the meanwhile:
What's your theory for the reason FFG does not sell Imperial Assault (or Star Wars: Rebellion, which is also a Star Wars boardgame) on their webstore? (While they do sell all of their other non-boardgame Star Wars games.)

Wait albert haven't you been on the forums for the past 4 years? It means the game is ded and they aren't making reprints :P

I honestly think it was all laid out for them pretty clearly ahead of time by Disney, the Mouse runs a tight ship. Here are where the lines are, here is where you guys stand. Don't cross that line. The lawyers talked and agreed yup, it works. Thus we got IA. Some evidence of this invisible line? As already stated, the lack of sales directly through FFG's website.

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19 hours ago, a1bert said:

Your opinion is yours.

And yet....

If Hasbro still has an exclusive right to star wars licensed bard games then how do Rebellion and Outer Rim exist?

If the big restriction is that FFG can't sell the stuff directly on their website which isn't even their primary distribution point then...well, Hasbro's lawyers must have phoned it in that day. 

How about this.  I'm gonna give you exclusive rights to my Ferrari.

Oh, I'm gonna let this guy over here drive it pretty much whenever he wants to, but he just can't park it in his garage.   But you still have exclusive rights.  

Much like frog trigger said, I'm on about the conspiracy theories that everyone has had about why the RPG books aren't available in pdf format (it's habro, pdf makes it a video game and therefor they can't do that), why we haven't seen a relase for IA in x days (it's hasbro they're finally shutting it down/they've sued ffg/I heard there's an injunction), why it took so long to get LotA developed (it's hasbro, this makes it a video game).  The Hasbro/EA/FFG/Disney license scheme has been the boogey man that everyone references any time there's a delay in anything.  I continue to find it hilarious that this is yet another place that star wars fans come up with a theory and defend that theory in the face of all evidence to the contrary. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

And yet....

If Hasbro still has an exclusive right to star wars licensed bard games then how do Rebellion and Outer Rim exist?

Maybe they worked it out. Imperial Assault, Rebellion, and Outer Rim are evidence that they worked it out.

(And Outer Rim and FFG producing content for LotA is further proof that the arrangement is not short-term.)

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26 minutes ago, a1bert said:

Maybe they worked it out. Imperial Assault, Rebellion, and Outer Rim are evidence that they worked it out.

(And Outer Rim and FFG producing content for LotA is further proof that the arrangement is not short-term.)

Maybe IA, Rebellion and OR = Miniatures Games <> Board Games under whatever license agreement?

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I mean, as it stands we really don't know the exact details of whatever agreement might exist, and I think Outer Rim really does seem to indicate some sort of exception to the popular theory, at the very least.

 

I wonder if there's some sort of objective quality of standard that separates the two?  I mean, Outer Rim is technically more of a board game than FFG is used to, but it's no Loopin' Chewie.

 

Total shot in the dark here (and I'm almost surely wrong), but is there anything to support the idea that Hasbro is able to use the Star Wars license slapped on their existing properties, while FFG can do new stuff with it?  

Seems like as far as I know, new Hasbro stuff has tended toward just versions of existing Hasbro games. 

There's some Monopolys, a few versions of Operation, Battleship, chess (which I assume Hasbro doesn't have exclusive rights to), Clue, Yahtzee, a few versions of Trouble, Trivial Pursuit, Loopin Chewie (based on Loopin' Louie)...

 

The only games that I could find that seem to not fit that mold are something called "I've Got a Bad Feeling About This" (which is apparently an Exploding Kittens Clone), and the Solo card game attempt at sabaac.

 

Also, that would make Risk: Star Wars edition make a lot more sense in the context, since it's definitely not a Risk game by any means.

 

 

 

I mean, this is probably more or less just an observation on Hasbro's lack of creativity and innovation when it comes to expanding outside of their comfort zone.

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1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

The only games that I could find that seem to not fit that mold are something called "I've Got a Bad Feeling About This" (which is apparently an Exploding Kittens Clone), and the Solo card game attempt at sabaac.

IIRC, there was some IP litigation regarding sabaac, wasn't there?

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Outer Rim is 100% absolutely a board game. It says so right on the headline of FFG's announcement article. 

bOpuEOn.png

Zrob has decided that he's more intelligent than all of us and above rumor mongering of any sort without FFG Hasbro and LFL divulging all of their confidential business contracts to the general public, nothing short of that is going to budge him so please stop antagonizing him.

That kind of facts based realism is admirable in other more professional fields, but this is just a hobby and I will shamelessly rumor monger about my hobby until the cows come home. 

Edited by Tvboy

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3 hours ago, Tvboy said:

That kind of facts based realism is admirable in other more professional fields, but this is just a hobby and I will shamelessly rumor monger about my hobby until the cows come home. 

I heard Outer Rim will have Lieutenant Kettch as a recruitable crew member!

 

YUB YUB, COMMANDER!

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16 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Outer Rim is 100% absolutely a board game. It says so right on the headline of FFG's announcement article. 

bOpuEOn.png

Zrob has decided that he's more intelligent than all of us and above rumor mongering of any sort without FFG Hasbro and LFL divulging all of their confidential business contracts to the general public, nothing short of that is going to budge him so please stop antagonizing him.

That kind of facts based realism is admirable in other more professional fields, but this is just a hobby and I will shamelessly rumor monger about my hobby until the cows come home. 

Not more intelligent at all, I have the utmost respect for you, in particular, and your spreadhseet makes running my campaign a joy.  I'm just tired of this one particular rumor.  Especially when it is applied to every single thing that happens.  

It's like when people come up with fan theories.  That's fine, do that.  Write fic, get creative, develop your own head canon.  

But don't then decide that some particular fan theory is now canon and get angry when the actual writers didn't see it that way. 

The licence issue might even be the exact reason that some SW stuff isn't sold on the FFG website.  That, however, does not necessarily mean it is the reason or explanation for anything else. But hey, without information there is speculation.  That's human nature.  I'll just be over here saying "maybe your conclusion is spurious."

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1 hour ago, Zrob314 said:

Not more intelligent at all, I have the utmost respect for you, in particular, and your spreadhseet makes running my campaign a joy.  I'm just tired of this one particular rumor.  Especially when it is applied to every single thing that happens.  

It's like when people come up with fan theories.  That's fine, do that.  Write fic, get creative, develop your own head canon.  

But don't then decide that some particular fan theory is now canon and get angry when the actual writers didn't see it that way. 

The licence issue might even be the exact reason that some SW stuff isn't sold on the FFG website.  That, however, does not necessarily mean it is the reason or explanation for anything else. But hey, without information there is speculation.  That's human nature.  I'll just be over here saying "maybe your conclusion is spurious."

So here’s the thing... I agree with you.  There isn’t enough hard evidence one way or the other to say whether or not such an agreement exists.  I wouldn’t say for certain that it does or not, and it doesn’t sound like you would either.

So if the answer does come out, this goes one of two ways:

1) It isn’t real.  Everyone is surprised but you.  That’s all you get out of it, congrats.

2) It is real. Everyone else gets to say “I told you so.”  Though you weren’t wrong (you just wanted more evidence) people will treat you like you are.

For this reason, I recommend you leave the matter alone.

Edited by Uninvited Guest

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