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Why having zero new content in Expansions covered by the Conversion Kits is a good thing.

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5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

 

I will be joining the 2.0 parade because of the new factions.  Others will be buying them because they love the prequels.   Still others to explore the new mechanics of droids and Jedi.

In any event, I doubt demand will be "less."

 

The demand would most certainly be less if the new factions didn't have cards you couldn't get elsewhere for now. 

 

Apart from everybody else who would buy the new factions anyway for reasons like those expressed above, having new cards also 'hooks' people who have no interest in the ships themselves, but need/want the cards.  Think 1.0 Autothrusters. 

Edited by LordBlades

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9 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

The demand would most certainly be less if the new factions didn't have cards you couldn't get elsewhere for now. 

 

Apart from everybody else who would buy the new factions anyway for reasons like those expressed above, having new cards also 'hooks' people who have no interest in the ships themselves, but need/want the cards.  Think 1.0 Autothrusters. 

Which while good business sense in the short term, destroys good will in the long term.

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51 minutes ago, GeneralVryth said:

Which while good business sense in the short term, destroys good will in the long term.

On the other hand, it's been the business nidel of x-wing from day 1. If FFG wasn't doing this, odds are stuff would be more expensive, as they'd still need to meet same revenue/profit targets. 

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Hasn't FFG somewhere promised to release packs with the cards but without ships if new content is coming with rereleases? Like the small extra bags in the conversion kits for the TIE/LN, TIE/x1, Y-wing, TIE/vn, Upsilon-class??

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39 minutes ago, Taiowaa said:

Hasn't FFG somewhere promised to release packs with the cards but without ships if new content is coming with rereleases? Like the small extra bags in the conversion kits for the TIE/LN, TIE/x1, Y-wing, TIE/vn, Upsilon-class??

They also promised you wouldn't have to buy other factions for cards as well. I'd take any FFG promise with a decently sized boulder of salt. 

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6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

me I I me I my I...

Sounds like someone needs to check their entitlement at the door.

Anyhoo...

5 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sure, I'm glad I don't have to buy another Deci to get a new pilot, but this also means that when the Interceptor gets re-released we'll still only have one pilot for it.

The Interceptor has four pilots.  If you personally would never fly three of them for whatever reason, that's your decision, but it doesn't magically make those options disappear.

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44 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

 

The Interceptor has four pilots.  If you personally would never fly three of them for whatever reason, that's your decision, but it doesn't magically make those options disappear.

Even if you look at competitive viability, how many ships have more than 1 truly viable pilot? 

 

I get that everybody would like their favorite ship to have more, but across the entire system, 0-1 competitively viable pilots seems to be the norm, ships with more being exceptions. 

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19 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Even if you look at competitive viability, how many ships have more than 1 truly viable pilot?

I get that everybody would like their favorite ship to have more, but across the entire system, 0-1 competitively viable pilots seems to be the norm, ships with more being exceptions. 

I'm not really a fan of the "competitively viable" philosophy.  OK, it became a bit more pronounced towards the end of 1st edition when massively overwhelming offence/defence became the norm, but it's early days for 2nd edition and for the most part those kind of hijinks have been toned down.

Besides, poor Turr Phennir!  And no love for Alpha Squadron pilots (now with built in semi-Push?). Blasphemy!

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1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

I'm not really a fan of the "competitively viable" philosophy.  OK, it became a bit more pronounced towards the end of 1st edition when massively overwhelming offence/defence became the norm, but it's early days for 2nd edition and for the most part those kind of hijinks have been toned down.

Besides, poor Turr Phennir!  And no love for Alpha Squadron pilots (now with built in semi-Push?). Blasphemy!

IMO it's unavoidable in the competitive world, unless FFG makes everything perfectly balanced (which we both know won't happen).

 

It doesn't really matter FFG has toned down the differences, so that pilot A is only 10% better than pilot B instead of the 30% of first edition; as long as the difference still exists, 90% of the competitive players are still going to take pilot A and only pilot A. 

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4 hours ago, Taiowaa said:

Hasn't FFG somewhere promised to release packs with the cards but without ships if new content is coming with rereleases? Like the small extra bags in the conversion kits for the TIE/LN, TIE/x1, Y-wing, TIE/vn, Upsilon-class??

No, no such promise was directly made. That was something the community invented as the way to rationalize how they could do rereleases of the models without making us buy old models.

In truth, it seems FFG’s plan all along was to only rerelease the conversion kit content to keep that promise, which inevitably leads to breaking a different promise (no generic upgrades that are only out of faction).

 

5 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Apart from everybody else who would buy the new factions anyway for reasons like those expressed above, having new cards also 'hooks' people who have no interest in the ships themselves, but need/want the cards.  Think 1.0 Autothrusters. 

That “hook” was one of the things FFG directly stated in interviews would not happen anymore in 2.0. They specifically said this practice would be done and gone.

You are correct that this isn’t what they’re doing.... but we are aggravated about it because they said it’d be done.

 

9 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Didn't the original factions get, like, twenty ships each when the game released?  It seems to me that the simplest solution to keep the game from getting stale would have been to not release conversion kits in the first place.

Or they could just work on new pilots and upgrades and give us essentials pack. Or new ship models.

I mean, they managed to do this for scum with Lando’s Falcon and the Mining Guild Tie. They could keep pursuing options for the others.

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I agree. 

I'm happy that the rereleased ships aren't sold with upgrade cards that weren't included in the faction packs. I think the overwhelming response to that would have been negative, affecting far more than those on the boards. Unless they have a new sculpt and/or paint job, I can safely and confidently dismiss their release and focus on the new content.

Ultimately, reprinted ships should contain nothing beyond what was in the faction kits, because people who own 1.0 content should never have to repurchase ships they already own for new content.

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26 minutes ago, Arttemis said:

Ultimately, reprinted ships should contain nothing beyond what was in the faction kits, because people who own 1.0 content should never have to repurchase ships they already own for new content.

I agree with this premise.

I just also think there needs to be an option somewhere for folks who own 1.0 content to gain access to the new generic upgrades, whether that be through brand new models/ships or through some essentials pack of some sort.

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1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

 

 

That “hook” was one of the things FFG directly stated in interviews would not happen anymore in 2.0. They specifically said this practice would be done and gone.

You are correct that this isn’t what they’re doing.... but we are aggravated about it because they said it’d be done.

 

Fully agree, I've wondered several times why FFG actually stated that, as it was pretty obvious from the conversion kit and wave 1 contents that they weren't really willing to put their money where their mouth is. 

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52 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Says the other guy who chases me around telling me I don't get to have an opinion because I don't play 2.0 right now.

Actually, I said exactly the opposite.

Of course you get an opinion.  You're entitled to your opinion.

But that's just about all you're entitled to.

FFG do not make this game for any one person.  What you may think would be good for you is not necessarily what would be good for the game as a whole.

And as for following you around?  It's kind of hard not to, when you're spouting the same turgid negativity on pretty much every topic on the forum...

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13 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Fully agree, I've wondered several times why FFG actually stated that, as it was pretty obvious from the conversion kit and wave 1 contents that they weren't really willing to put their money where their mouth is. 

Eh, I was willing to give them a pass with how the rest of the release went (looking at you, app). It seemed plausible that changes at the last minute in terms of allowing multiple factions access to things messed up the print run and they didn’t get it right.

Wave 2 was a little suspicious but not awful.

What we see coming? Yeah.... now it’s a pattern.

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Just wanted to point out that there's no reason we won't eventually be getting Squadron Packs for old factions, which may contain some of the generic upgrades you're all looking for along with new pilots.  With the precedent set by Protectors of Peace and Squadron of Strife, we may start getting three-ship packs for everything else, as the waves keep coming - remember, we had Most Wanted, Aces, Veterans, and Heroes packs in 1.0, but not until well down the road.

Personally, the pattern I see is that for now, 2.0 players who bought Conversion Kits have access to all of the content that will be in re-released old faction ships for the forseeable future (as we're seeing from the wave announcements), while FFG gets solid footing under the new factions (Resistance, First Order, Separatists, and Republic). Hyperspace allows for a steady rotation of reprinted ships as well as the new ones, like MTG Standard, and semi-annual points rebalances (as has been pointed out by a few here) keep the extended players changing up their lists. For example, triple Brobots is now a thing, and it was never possible before.  There are changes in slots that go through, as well (for example, I look forward to finding the new Party Bus given the fact that the YV-666 now has a gunner slot). Overall, these are all good decisions from a gaming perspective - you want replayability, consistency, and fun, while still being surprised once in a while - and I look forward to the increasingly robust environment we're going to find ourselves in.

Furthermore, once FFG has our newer factions established as viable, playable alternatives (thus hooking new players who grew up with Prequel Trilogy content, Clone Wars content, and now Disney-era sequel content), they can focus on the already-established community (who are likely going to be trying out the new factions anyway, since we all love the game), even if it takes longer than some might want it to.  It's still going to make them money, regardless, and the only downside is that some folks won't get to do everything they want exactly when they want.

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21 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

who are likely going to be trying out the new factions anyway, since we all love the game

I find pretty much everything else you've said reasonable (although maybe overly optimistic here and there) , but this part I disagree with.

Based on my experience in the local area as well as what I've seen discussed in various online and offline environments, a significant chunk of the X-Wing community, especially in the casual and semi-competitive area, are single faction players. If you leave this guys without content for their faction for too long...I don't think 'try out a new faction' is the most likely thing they'll do. 

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4 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

I find pretty much everything else you've said reasonable (although maybe overly optimistic here and there) , but this part I disagree with.

Based on my experience in the local area as well as what I've seen discussed in various online and offline environments, a significant chunk of the X-Wing community, especially in the casual and semi-competitive area, are single faction players. If you leave this guys without content for their faction for too long...I don't think 'try out a new faction' is the most likely thing they'll do. 

It’s not that I don’t agree with your idea, it’s just that in reality I see competitive players as well as others buying ships for cards they need, after all it has happened in the past and is probably what FFG is counting on to fuel sales. Yes you can wait and get cards when they are available in your faction, or you could just go back to the old days of buying a card and getting a free ship with it. 

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5 minutes ago, Vykk Draygo said:

It’s not that I don’t agree with your idea, it’s just that in reality I see competitive players as well as others buying ships for cards they need, after all it has happened in the past and is probably what FFG is counting on to fuel sales. Yes you can wait and get cards when they are available in your faction, or you could just go back to the old days of buying a card and getting a free ship with it. 

I fully agree about competitive players, although IMO there's a point to be discussed here as well; waves are significantly larger and Meta changes faster too (more waves per year+2 formats+ 2 rebalances per year) which might lead to a significantly higher cost to keep up than 1.0 and possibly fewer guys willing to do it. 

 

My point was mainly aimed at the more casual end of the spectrum, players who mainly buy and play a single faction. If a Scum only player has no Scum ship in wave 4, I think he's far more likely to skip wave 4 altogether, instead of deciding to pick up First Order or Separatists. 

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44 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

My point was mainly aimed at the more casual end of the spectrum, players who mainly buy and play a single faction. If a Scum only player has no Scum ship in wave 4, I think he's far more likely to skip wave 4 altogether, instead of deciding to pick up First Order or Separatists. 

I can get behind that point to some degree - I knew from the outset of 2.0 that I would be playing two factions, 'cause I did even in casual 1.0, and almost everyone else in my play group does, as well, but there are definitely some single-faction folks out there who will throw in the towel because their faction's getting no love.  I feel that way about Scum right now...a dinky little Z-95 in Wave III, nothing in Wave IV...but I'm also Resistance, so I'm looking forward to buying and using the Transport.  I have no interest in anything else for that wave, but it scratches the itch nonetheless.  I figured most casual players like myself would do the same.

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36 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

I feel that way about Scum right now...a dinky little Z-95 in Wave III,

Hey, chin up. Rebels got skipped for two waves, Empire for one while we've had new content for the first 3 waves (the Z-95 single pack is a new thing for us, the 1.0 3 ship + cardboard for 2 more chassis Most Wanted pack was a good deal, but if you only wanted 1 ship it was a bit of a waste of cash). Lets wait and see what Wave 5 brings before we get too annoyed (unlike some Rebel and Imp mains that seem to never have a good thing to say regardless of what they have coming out).

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5 hours ago, Arttemis said:

Ultimately, reprinted ships should contain nothing beyond what was in the faction kits, because people who own 1.0 content should never have to repurchase ships they already own for new content.

^This.

core set contains two ships some of us didn't want or need. but thankfully I haven't had to buy any ships I didn't actually want yet. Fingers crossed we won't need to buy extra ships just to get upgrades in the future. I think this will be like 85% percent of the time with the odd cross faction purchase needed which is just enough to be annoying. Because the game has declined a bit in my area trading surplus cards isn't really possible yet. Sure I could send things to another country for trading/reselling purposes but that's added expense and hassle when you live in NZ.

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48 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Hey, chin up. Rebels got skipped for two waves, Empire for one while we've had new content for the first 3 waves (the Z-95 single pack is a new thing for us, the 1.0 3 ship + cardboard for 2 more chassis Most Wanted pack was a good deal, but if you only wanted 1 ship it was a bit of a waste of cash). Lets wait and see what Wave 5 brings before we get too annoyed (unlike some Rebel and Imp mains that seem to never have a good thing to say regardless of what they have coming out).

I have no plans to get annoyed - saving money because I'm not buying X-Wing is a GOOD thing ;) 

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